Spending extended time aboard...

J

JamesTXSD

Active member
The premise of this thread is to discuss ideas that work (and what doesn't work) while spending extended time on our boats. It's not meant to be my take on it, although I'll get the ball rolling. Reading about Jay and Jo-Lee in Alaska and visiting with lots of C-Dory folks who had questions during the Friday Harbor gathering got me thinking about this. Also, last summer a group of Brats spent extended time in the Broughtons, with less than ideal weather.

Last year, one of the Brats spent a good portion of the summer living onboard his 16. You use what ya got.

Seems that some folks think extended time on a C-Dory sounds like the ideal life. With forethought and effort, it can work.

The biggest issue we deal with is condensation in the boat - eating, sleeping, cooking, showering, and just breathing creates that dampness on the walls and ceiling. Bedding absorbs it. So does anything paper or cardboard (like a box of Kleenex). This was from this morning, after we took down window covers and started the daily routine of wiping down...

CondensationE.jpg

What you see on the windows there can also be on the walls. I understand what Jay was talking about when he said, "It is raining inside the boat," while holed up in Alaska. It gets even heavier if you are cooking - yesterday, Joan boiled water for pasta... yep, drips from the ceiling. Oh, and it was raining at the time. :crook

Getting some air movement though the boat is helpful...

IzFanE.jpg

We use these small portable fans and the larger type that plugs in. That's fine when you can keep windows open, but doesn't help much when it's raining. We almost always have a couple windows cracked open when we're on the boat. This is a constant concern, and needs to be addressed so you don't wind up with a boat full of mold and mildew.

Speaking of showering, one of the best mods we (well, Joan) made was the shower curtain. I really don't like using marina showers, but that does help keep the humidity down in the boat. We both prefer to use our own shower. It is compact, but I know who used it last, and I don't have to wear Crocs in the shower. :roll: If you have a 25 or a TomCat and use the shower, you know that they all leak out the door and onto the cabin floor; some folks have made small "dams" to route the water away from the bottom of the door. Joan bought the cloth kind of shower curtain - we tried the plastic kind in the past, and it always "stuck" to you; this doesn't. Velcro on the sides and near the bottom makes sure no water gets out the door. We keep the head door open while showering. Nothing drips out on the floor. No one whacks an elbow on the door while showering. Joan also made a strap that hooks around the door handle and snaps to the main cabin door frame, keeping the door open. (Side note: we also keep the door open that way at night, so the head isn't freezing cold when I have to make one of my nightly visits... TMI) Joan also made a "toilet cover" from the remainder of unused shower curtain... if you don't put something over the toilet, it will fill up with water while you are showering. This extends time between pump-outs. It is a fitted cover, shaped like the toilet with some elastic to hold it in place.

The shower gets squeegeed then wiped down by whoever uses it last (unless you are able to negotiate some sort of exchange of duties). We use as little soap as necessary to get the job done. When we have access to water (as in a marina), we can go three days on a 20 gallon tank; longer than that when at anchor and we are really trying to conserve.

Electrical conservation: we have a 30 amp power set up on our boat. It is a luxury we could not do without. Without certain creature comforts of home (TV, computers, fridge, microwave, Keurig coffee-maker, ceramic heater, and the ability to charge all our electronic devices), this would be more endurance than enjoyment. The small fridge means we will make regular trips to the store. Joan is great at meal planning and packing all the food, but it is nice to have access to fresh bread, fruits, and vegetables... so we look forward to the store trips. Regarding using appliances: 30 amp does not have enough capacity to run what you want when you want. We can run the microwave OR the heater; a blow drier or the water heater... the rule is: turn something off before you turn on a big power user.

We have spent months onboard our boat in the past, but we were moving every day or two. This will be our first shot at staying in one place on the boat for extended time. Moving regularly is easier... more air movement through the boat and less urge for stuff, because you are out exploring daily. We are fortunate that we have our truck nearby this summer, so we do have more "storage space."

Many of you know we travel and live with our cat, Izzy. That presents storage challenges, because she gets the biggest storage compartment in the boat for her private bathroom (and storage of other cat stuff). We removed the cabinet door and put a "drape" across the opening so Izzy has access at all times. She is part of the family, and we would not consider doing this without having her with us.

Some folks have told us, "We could never live in such a small space - we'd kill each other." Having a camperback is essential, so one of us can go to the "lanai" (our new term for the cockpit 8) ) when the other needs space. We have lived, worked, and played together all our lives; can't imagine it any other way. But, if we were seriously going to live aboard, we would need a bigger boat. We try to not have to move stuff to get at other stuff, but there is an absolute finite space... minimalism doesn't work for us, although we have downsized considerably from the days when we were working. I don't consider us "liveaboards," although that is what the marina here calls us. We do have a home and a comfortable RV to go back to when our time here is done. We bought this boat for the trailerability and traveling; this use is certainly different from that.

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So, let's hear how you handle time/space onboard. Even if it's just a weekend, if you have storage solutions, space considerations, packing tips, etc, etc - this is the place.

Tell us what works for you.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
We have spent 13 years as "live aboards.". The smallest was a 29 foot sailboat, but the problems are somewhat similar. We have also spent 6 weeks at a time in the C Dory--and this summer on the road so far almost 5 weeks in the 22, sleeping in it every night except a few days at Sequim.

The condensation is an issue. In the Cal 46, where we spent 6 months out of the year for 4 years crusing AK, we made some modifications which helped. First we insullated the entire boat, with 1/2" to 5/8" closed cell foam, including headliner. We put in hydronic diesel fired heat, so there was no condensatino from heating. It was 45,000 BTU, and ran on about 5 amps per hour. Since we had about 1200 amp hours of batteries, there was no lack of power. We could then crack windows at night, and still have plenty of heat. We also had small hatches over the galley, so these were opened during cooking. This idea could be used on the C Dory, with a small dorade type of hatch or mushrooom vent over the galley and head, to allow steam to escape.

In the 22 and 25, we do wipe down the windows when necessary, with an "Adsorber" cloth chamois--better than a real chamois. We also use electric heat, and usually leave the V berth hatch cracked to the barely open position (with the levers into the groove where it can still be locked.) We have a "shade under the hatch.

This summer we have been cooking mostly with electric power (hot pate--maybe there is an advantage of no built in stove?--but the Wallas should give the same effect.)

We also used shower curtains in the 25 and 255.

I agree a camper back is a must--and we have hooks for wet clothes to be left outside on the back of the cabin bulkhead. Keep wet clothes out of the cabin.

There are dehumidifiers--the Mighty Dri is the best--no longer made--but it takes up a lot of room, and uses a fair amount of power (refigeration/heater, to lower humidity.) The calcium buckets, are expensive, and dont work as well.
 
I have not done a camper back yet but will do. Bimini only so far. What has made a big difference for liveaboard is the insulation. I put 1/2 inch foam in all locker bottoms. Just cut to fit and pressed in, not attached. Also in the vee berth sides, same thing. Will be doing the overhead of the bunk next. It is important to have ventilation thru the boat. I keep the forehatch opened to the locked position to vent breathing vapor. Also I have a small cube heater if shore power is available. I have fairly heavy material for curtains and blackout covers for back windows and a heavy decorative fabric hanging on the door. All to keep drafts down. Also to make it homey. Rugs on the floor on top of dri deck to help keep the floor warm. I put in several power ports for 12 volt use to run small inverters for charging and Ipad use. Small portable d cell fans that can be placed to move air either on the windshield to keep it clear or to move warm air around. We use a heater Buddy in cold days with side and front windows cracked and door ajar, with fans moving air and have not seen much moisture. I believe the factory did a spray on additive to help in the newer boats. Mine has something on top of the resin. The boat seems warmer and dryer than other 22's I've been aboard. George
 
Sitting here as the rain continues and the moisture builds, I am becoming more and more interested in ventilation issues.

I recall reading about anti-condensation pads (Hypervent, Dry Bunk, slats) for the v berth and wonder if any Brats have used this idea and if so did it help?

I understand that some folks use foam "toppers" on top of the v-berth cushion and I wonder if that adds to the moisture problem?

Maybe there is something to sleeping in a hammock after all :D

In lieu of a shower, I was thinking that the cockpits with a camper back can serve as a "wet room" for at least a modified shower during these rainy days. Hard to figure out how wet clothes will dry out, but where there is a will there must be a way, correct?

Anne

CD22 SeaCoaster sold 8-11
Cascadia Ranger 25SC
 
We have found that one of the benefits of installing a diesel espar heater is the drying effect. The Espar uses air from inside the cabin to supply the combustion chamber. You can draw air from out side but why would you? so all the cold moist air on the bottom of the cabin is sucked up and ran threw a fire box and then exhausted out the side of the boat. The heated air is also supplied from inside the boat. The espar drys the boat out very well. We even drape moist cloths over the table where the heat vent can blow hot air in to them and dry them out. That a few open window seems to keep the boat dry.
 
We use hypervent under the cushions in the berth. It works very well to keep the bottom of the cushions dry. I don't think it does much for the rest of the cabin, though.
 
The most time we have ever spent on our boat was a month. We both have two separate areas for our clothes. This cuts down on stupid questions which can get on your boat buddy's nerves. Like where is my???? We use the lazarettes in the rear of the cockpit for dirty or wet clothes. We use bungie cords across the back of our campertop frame for a clothes line for towels etc. We use our air conditioner a lot and the only condensation we notice is on the windows as our venture has factory installed insulation. What some term dreaded foo foo insulation not the usual bare bones look. We like the insulation our berth area (same stuff as the rest of the boat) as if has a nice feel to it instead of damp cold fiberglass should bare skin coming in contact with the side of the boat while sleeping. We carry a small electric heater and have a Espar d-2 diesel heater if the electric can't keep up or we are underway.Our berth is out fitted with extra foam, memory foam and a trava sak sleep system. We carry a king size light weight comforter and usually sleep on top of the travasak and use the comforter so there aren't any push me pull you blanket issues in the middle of the night. One of the biggest things for us is to go over everything that you are carring along and ask your self do we really need this? After a couple of years we take extra stuff but leave it in the truck so as to limit the amount of stuff you have to move around. Having a pickup with an eight foot bed and a cap lets us have plenty of room for extra water ,wine (very important) different clothes rain gear, more clothes, shoes for every purpose, are you seeing a trend here? Fishing gear (rod rack on the interior of pickup trucks cap.) and tackle stays in the pickup until we have an assigned fishing day. We now trailer to different areas rather than cruise because of the price of marina gas and try to stay for a week or so to reduce marina costs. Having the pickup close by has many obvious benifets. The extra storage is big along with being able to do land based recon trips for haircuts, provisions, or just fun things to do. We call the boat tiny town and I especially try to hold my tongue as you are living in close quarters with your boat buddy should a dust up of some sort occurr. Just turn on your automatic head nodding machine and set it to the up and down the yes position for the best cruise results. If momma ain't happy no one is happy! :wink:
D.D.
 
George, what brand of insulation did you use and where did you buy it? I'm interested in adding some insulation before heading to Alaska next week but don't want to go the paint on or spray on route because of time constraints.
 
Hi I went to Industrial Plastics in Nanaimo. I'll bet you have a similar store nearby. It is white 1/2 inch sheet foam. Comes in 4 ft width I believe closed cell. Easy to cut. No dust. And stays put. I ran it under the bunk cushions about 6 inches and up to the deck laying against the hull. A couple pieces of clear tape under the bunk holds it in place. Easy to remove if not desired. Works well. I will do under the bunk also as the lockers under the bunk are done. It will make it pretty cosy once all foamed. A home supply place may sell it also. It ran about $7.00 a running foot at 4 ft wide so not too pricey.
 
For anyone spending time on their boat with kids, we had a goodie bag of toys where Aven got to pick out one new toy each day. Made it fun that she got to play with a new thing each day.
 
We use this in the v-berth area...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trial-C ... e/16783660

Sounds like it is similar to what George describes. Easy to cut; we notched it out for the shelves/supports in the v-berth. We originally had it run under the cushions, but it was directing condensation under. We have since cut it so it just goes to the bottom of the side of the v-berth. While it doesn't help with condensation, it does eliminate that "Whoa!" when you touch a body part to the hull-side of the v-berth. 8)

Today was laundry day; Joan stripped all the bedding off and we wiped down the entire boat, top to bottom. We have a weather station in the boat that gives us humidity %... even though it was raining most of the day, there is less humidity in the boat with the windows open (yes, even during the rain).

I prefer a Trav-a-sack in the berth, Joan likes sheets and a blanket... so, we compromised and did sheets and a blanket. She gets to make up the bed...

http://captnjim.blogspot.com/2012/05/al ... tling.html

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Some one spoke about wet clothes. The outside of the cabin hooks are a good idea. We found some that attached with suction cups on glass or gel coat. No holes and wonderful for wet rain gear.
We also tried to avoid cotton garmets. LL Bean sels some travel clothing that is non cotton and dries quickly. I wear all nylon shorts in the warm months. When I go to the shower I wash the shorts and they are dry by the next morning. Most quick dry items pack in less space than wool or cotton. Use
fleece instead of sweat shirts it drys very quickly.

We live 3 months each winter in a small Road Trek motor home -
much like cruising on a C-dory.(Not as much fun)

Fred, Pat, and Mr. Grey (the Cat)
 
We lived aboard our boat for 20 straight days. Moisture always condensed on the windows, but there was very little condensation on the walls due to the Mascoat Delta-T coating. Condensation was a slight problem under the berth cushion, but that problem has been completely removed by our use of Hypervent.

Even more than one week in a small boat can be confining, no matter how good a boat it is. What made our 20 days pass quickly and enjoyably was the facility at which we primarily spent our time: Cap Sante Boat Haven. We loved the place. We looked forward to doing laundry in their spacious wood and glass laundry room. Their rest rooms and showers were excellent. A wide array of restaurants, stores and various businesses were all within a short walk. We didn't need a car there, but we could have rented one, which was also within walking distance. So I would not overlook the importance of transient facilities as one of the major factors in staying a long time on our boats.

Rich
 
Classic, Jim! You are on track to make 45 as well! The six most important words in the English language: "Yes dear, I'm sorry, you're right" (emphasis properly goes on "right," not "sorry").

JamesTXSD":76c6y53o said:
I prefer a Trav-a-sack in the berth, Joan likes sheets and a blanket... so, we compromised and did sheets and a blanket.
Best wishes,
Jim
Click to expand...
 
Pat Anderson":2r2mtdeg said:
Classic, Jim! You are on track to make 45 as well! The six most important words in the English language: "Yes dear, I'm sorry, you're right" (emphasis properly goes on "right," not "sorry").

JamesTXSD":2r2mtdeg said:
I prefer a Trav-a-sack in the berth, Joan likes sheets and a blanket... so, we compromised and did sheets and a blanket.
Best wishes,
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It all depends on whether you put in that second comma or not, huh? :twisted:

:mrgreen:
 
We did the Great Loop in our boat and loved living aboard, even without a camper back. Moisture was often present on the cabin ceiling, but rarely a problem (even with the alcohol stove). We increased storage by adding shelves to the two lockers under the dinette seats, one above the hot water heater, the other about level with the top of the door. We also added an easily removable shelf above the toilet on which sat a couple of suitcases - both easily removed when necessary (although we did use a pee-pot to minimize the times we needed to pump the toilet). We took along a 2000W Honda generator, but although we anchored out a lot we rarely used it (we have two big Group 32 house batteries as well as an engine starting battery). Mary did nearly all the cooking on the alcohol stove and prepared some outstanding meals. We even entertained a couple of times. We also had a small barbecue which we again rarely used. Since our house is about 4000 square feet living aboard was a big change for us, but one that both of us enjoyed so much that we try and get away for a few weeks on board every year now.
 
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