We encountered something new while fishing this weekend. Our Honda 90 h has been consistent and problem free, but while accelerating, it stalled at around 2800-2900 RPMs. Sputtered and quit. It worked fine at low speeds and started right up again. We slowly increased the throttle and got it past the previous stall, and it ran fine at higher speeds. This happened at least 3 times while crabbing and fishing. Any ideas of what could be causing it to stall at that RPM range?
stalling of Honda 90 h motor
- Thread starter Taran
- Start date
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Carbs or EFI?
Matt Gurnsey
New member
With the problems we're seeing in fuel today I would guess that you are having carb issues.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Matt,
I've got a carbed Honda 90 as well. What are the carb issues you are referring to in relation to today's fuel?
Tom
I've got a carbed Honda 90 as well. What are the carb issues you are referring to in relation to today's fuel?
Tom
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
My suspicion is that you have low speed jets that are restricted... Bad fuel or old fuel can cause this behavior.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I had the same problem on my 21 Arima on the saddle tanks. It was the pickup lines the bottom end was gunked up and the balls in the ball valves were corroded and seized.
Hi,
At the very least I would change your fuel filter/s. Add some fuel treatment to your existing fuel, Startron, Blue Marine Stabil. It sounds like it is starving for fuel, when this occurrs does the squeeze bulb get sucked flat? If so could be a problem with the fuel pickups or the anti siphon valves located in the top part of your fuel pickups. If the fuel pickups need to be removed it has been recommended to cut the bottom of the pickup tube on a 45 degree angle to prevent the fuel pickup from getting blocked by total contact with the bottom of the tank should the top of the tank sag. Drain your float bowls on each carborator which isn't hard to do. Use a clear container let it settle look for signs of water or goowie
stuff. That should tell you something. Sometimes the actual squeeze bulbs go bad. I hope this helps, I just did pull both tanks and got rid of the bad fuel. Having a fuel injected motor they reccommend draining the vapor tank which on Yamaha's is like a big float bowl so that all the injectors can pull fuel from a larger volume of fuel. It has a cute little screw and hose arrangement like the bottom of a carborator.
D.D.
At the very least I would change your fuel filter/s. Add some fuel treatment to your existing fuel, Startron, Blue Marine Stabil. It sounds like it is starving for fuel, when this occurrs does the squeeze bulb get sucked flat? If so could be a problem with the fuel pickups or the anti siphon valves located in the top part of your fuel pickups. If the fuel pickups need to be removed it has been recommended to cut the bottom of the pickup tube on a 45 degree angle to prevent the fuel pickup from getting blocked by total contact with the bottom of the tank should the top of the tank sag. Drain your float bowls on each carborator which isn't hard to do. Use a clear container let it settle look for signs of water or goowie
stuff. That should tell you something. Sometimes the actual squeeze bulbs go bad. I hope this helps, I just did pull both tanks and got rid of the bad fuel. Having a fuel injected motor they reccommend draining the vapor tank which on Yamaha's is like a big float bowl so that all the injectors can pull fuel from a larger volume of fuel. It has a cute little screw and hose arrangement like the bottom of a carborator.D.D.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Today's fuels contain ethonal, which has a number of negative effects on fuel systems.
Ethonal acts as a cleaner, and can break up sediment or varnish on tank walls and allow it to pass through the fuel system. A good fuel filter water seperator is imperative, as it will help. The particles that the ethonal breaks loose can clog small passages in carburaters.
Ethonal is a water magnet. It absorbs water from the air. Once it becomes saturated with water, the alchohol / water mix seperates from the gas. This is called phase seperation. Once this happens, you need to dispose of the gas, as it can't be recombined. I am also beginning to suspect that the alcohol / water mix can pass through the water seperator filter, and reach the injectors or carburaters.
Fuel left in a carb bowl absorbs water, and becomes very corrosive, and can actually start eating away at the carb's metal components.
We've seen fuel in carb bowls that has turned into a jelly. Engines won't idle, run funny, and basically misbehave.
The bottom line- ethonal is bad, bad stuff, and is costing boaters hundreds of thousands of dollars nationally. Manufacturers won't cover fuel related issue under their warranty. We've totalled motors less than ten years old because the cost of new carbs is so expensive that it isn't worth fixing the engine.
We strongly recomend the marine (blue) Stabil product be used year round. 1 ounce in ten gallons for normal use, 1 ounce in five gallons for winterization. Avoid additives that have alcohol in them. Even the isopropyl alcohol (the good alcohol) should be avoided. The pink Stabil has alcohol in it. In these products, alcohol is used as a fuel drier, since it absorbs the water and allows it to pass the filters and get burned off.
We also recomend storing the boat with empty tanks. Fuel goes bad so fast these days, even with Stabil in it, that we feel it is easier to deal with condensation moisture than having 50 gallons of bad fuel. The cost of disposing of bad fuel is equal to the cost of buying good fuel (about $3.00 a gallon).
Since fuel injection systems are closed systems in the engine, we don't see as many fuel problems, since air and moisture can't get to the fuel in the engine. The problems we do see are from water in the fuel itself causing damage to fuel pumps. Evinrude's injectors are more complex than everyone elses' and are less tolerant of fuel problems. Water in fuel can cause corrosion in the injector's delicate internal parts, causing runability issues.
Clean fuel solves all.
So when someone comes into our shop and says "my boat needs a tune up" we always ask "how's it running?". Because most people come in for a "tune up" when the engine is running poorly. More often than not, the poor running is caused by fuel related issues and damaged carbs.
We have had some success with a sonic cleaner to clean the carb parts. The problem is that by the time you pay for the labor to disassemble and reassemble you have reached the cost of a new carb, so we most often just replace the carb if it's bad.
So Ethonal is the bane of boaters. In fact, I'm not sure that ethonal has any real upside to it in use in gasoline.
Ethonal acts as a cleaner, and can break up sediment or varnish on tank walls and allow it to pass through the fuel system. A good fuel filter water seperator is imperative, as it will help. The particles that the ethonal breaks loose can clog small passages in carburaters.
Ethonal is a water magnet. It absorbs water from the air. Once it becomes saturated with water, the alchohol / water mix seperates from the gas. This is called phase seperation. Once this happens, you need to dispose of the gas, as it can't be recombined. I am also beginning to suspect that the alcohol / water mix can pass through the water seperator filter, and reach the injectors or carburaters.
Fuel left in a carb bowl absorbs water, and becomes very corrosive, and can actually start eating away at the carb's metal components.
We've seen fuel in carb bowls that has turned into a jelly. Engines won't idle, run funny, and basically misbehave.
The bottom line- ethonal is bad, bad stuff, and is costing boaters hundreds of thousands of dollars nationally. Manufacturers won't cover fuel related issue under their warranty. We've totalled motors less than ten years old because the cost of new carbs is so expensive that it isn't worth fixing the engine.
We strongly recomend the marine (blue) Stabil product be used year round. 1 ounce in ten gallons for normal use, 1 ounce in five gallons for winterization. Avoid additives that have alcohol in them. Even the isopropyl alcohol (the good alcohol) should be avoided. The pink Stabil has alcohol in it. In these products, alcohol is used as a fuel drier, since it absorbs the water and allows it to pass the filters and get burned off.
We also recomend storing the boat with empty tanks. Fuel goes bad so fast these days, even with Stabil in it, that we feel it is easier to deal with condensation moisture than having 50 gallons of bad fuel. The cost of disposing of bad fuel is equal to the cost of buying good fuel (about $3.00 a gallon).
Since fuel injection systems are closed systems in the engine, we don't see as many fuel problems, since air and moisture can't get to the fuel in the engine. The problems we do see are from water in the fuel itself causing damage to fuel pumps. Evinrude's injectors are more complex than everyone elses' and are less tolerant of fuel problems. Water in fuel can cause corrosion in the injector's delicate internal parts, causing runability issues.
Clean fuel solves all.
So when someone comes into our shop and says "my boat needs a tune up" we always ask "how's it running?". Because most people come in for a "tune up" when the engine is running poorly. More often than not, the poor running is caused by fuel related issues and damaged carbs.
We have had some success with a sonic cleaner to clean the carb parts. The problem is that by the time you pay for the labor to disassemble and reassemble you have reached the cost of a new carb, so we most often just replace the carb if it's bad.
So Ethonal is the bane of boaters. In fact, I'm not sure that ethonal has any real upside to it in use in gasoline.
T.R. Bauer
New member
Ethanol sucks plain and simple.....I has nearly ruined two of my wonderful old evinrude two strokes. But my love for them (and hours of labor) has kept them going. Due to ethanol, I never even leave fuel in my carbs of my Spokane boat during prolonged (more than a two weeks) periods as I know what it will do, and it aint good.
Fortunately, we don't have ethanol in our gas in SC Alaska and I don't have fuel troubles with the C-Dory. But, I am at a loss why the fuel dock on the water has ethanol gas at all. Why???? I think it is something boaters should unite on and change.
Fortunately, we don't have ethanol in our gas in SC Alaska and I don't have fuel troubles with the C-Dory. But, I am at a loss why the fuel dock on the water has ethanol gas at all. Why???? I think it is something boaters should unite on and change.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Matt,
Thanks much for the clear description of the effects of ethanol in gas. Certainly reducing pollution is a worthy objective, but it seems as though an engine designed to run more efficiently and cleaner could at least offset the 10% improvement ethanol is supposed to bring. I just read that Brazil uses 25% ethanol. I wonder what issues they're having with vehicles and outboards.
T
Thanks much for the clear description of the effects of ethanol in gas. Certainly reducing pollution is a worthy objective, but it seems as though an engine designed to run more efficiently and cleaner could at least offset the 10% improvement ethanol is supposed to bring. I just read that Brazil uses 25% ethanol. I wonder what issues they're having with vehicles and outboards.
T
Captains Cat
New member
Use some Startron as well.
Charlie
Charlie
It's been posted on here many times that the blue Stabil is highly recommended, if not an actual requirement. (Used like Matt says)
and from my boat mechanics suggestions who agree,
I have been doing this, every fill, for the last 2 years, and have had good starts and running every time, even though over the winter my boat sat for 6 months this year. At some point Matt is going to put twin 50 EFI's on it, but that will be a while, 'til then, its take care of what we have.
Harvey
SleepyC
:moon
and from my boat mechanics suggestions who agree,
I have been doing this, every fill, for the last 2 years, and have had good starts and running every time, even though over the winter my boat sat for 6 months this year. At some point Matt is going to put twin 50 EFI's on it, but that will be a while, 'til then, its take care of what we have.
Harvey
SleepyC
:moon
Matt Gurnsey
New member
For fuel system cleaning, there is nothing better than BG's 44K.
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html
In the interest of full disclosure, I rep'ed the BG line of products for a few years. The entire line of products works as advertised. I don't know if 44K will help with any of the fuel issues we are seeing these days.
I'll try to get ahold of a rep I worked with and see what he knows.
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html
In the interest of full disclosure, I rep'ed the BG line of products for a few years. The entire line of products works as advertised. I don't know if 44K will help with any of the fuel issues we are seeing these days.
I'll try to get ahold of a rep I worked with and see what he knows.
saltspring
New member
Funny I just started having the same problem with the same engine. I replaced all the filters and it helped maybe a little. The mechanic here suggested running a few tanks of high octane fuel through it. It seemed to get really bad after my last fuel stop at a marina rather than auto fuel pump.
I'll let you know if the premium fuel helps. I have also heed running marine Stabil in my tanks.
I'll let you know if the premium fuel helps. I have also heed running marine Stabil in my tanks.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
The problem with Premium fuel is that it is less stable than the regular grade, and it loses octane faster. There are no more detergents in premium than regular.