Steering System Keeps Turning - Low Oil Level?

S

Solesurfer

New member
Greetings Everybody,
We have a 25 cruiser with twin Honda 90's and Seastar hydraulic steering. I've noticed than when steering, the wheel doesn't stop, but keeps turning even though the engines have reached their limit. To steer the opposite direction you have to 'unwind' the wheel until you hear the steering click and the motors turn again.
I just finished taking a engine maintenance course and I asked my teacher about it. He said that the steering system might be low on fluid. I don't quite understand how the steering system being low on fluid could bypass the stops, but then again I'm not to mechanically inclined.
I did unscrew the screw on the helm and noticed that I could see some mechanical parts. I'm very hesitant to do anything as I'm afraid I might make it worse. But could the remedy for the problem be so simple that I just need to top off the fluid?

Thank you,
Tom
 
If your wheel just spins for a while and then seems to "catch" and work properly you are likely low on fluid. A good diagnostic would be to put a little more fluid into the helm filler and see if that fixes the problem. It does not take very much fluid. Baystar is helpful with advice. I'd be sure to use their fluid instead of some other hydraulic fluid. My Baystar system did just that and I had to replace a seal at the helm. Another place to check is back at the steering ram, the hydraulic piston that moves the engine, for leaks at either side.
 
Check for leaks at the helm then in back of steering wheel then at the engines .If no leaks ? then add fluid at helm and bleed system at the back by the engines this will get all the air out of the system tighten everything and then check again for leaks .
My Baystar system leaked from the helm I bought the steering seal and put it in ( had to pull steering wheel ) then had system bled of air and it was good to go no more leaks. Good Luck Jim
 
As above, I would bleed the system, adding fluid. You mention twin engines. How are they tied together? If the liquid tie bar, it will be different than with a mechanical linkage. Also you need the heavy duty helm station, if you do not have it already.
 
The Seastar/Baystar helm is nothing but a pump with check valves to direct the pumped fluid in either direction (port or starboard,) depending on the direction you turn the wheel.

That pump is positive displacement. So if you've reached the limit of the engine swiveling and the engines stop whilst the wheel keeps turning, you're pumping air, as opposed to fluid. That's bad. So center the engines (engine cylinder in mid position) and then check and add fluid into the helm pump. The top part of that pump is a reservoir, to supply extra fluid for the engine steering cylinder movement. If you open the plug on the top and can see "stuff" inside, it's too low. Remember to center the engines, because the helm/pump doesn't know what center is, it just pumps.

If the steering is still sluggish, you probably have air inside the lines, and you need to have a Seastar dealer bleed the steering.

Good luck, and welcome to the world of hydraulics.

Boris
 
journey on":18mrprep said:
If the steering is still sluggish, you probably have air inside the lines, and you needless to have a Seastar dealer bleed the steering.

Good luck, and welcome to the world of hydraulics.

Boris
Click to expand...

You don't need a dealer to do that, you can do it yourself just follow the instructions.
 
If you have the liquid tie bar, someone who has the electric bleeding system can do it much faster--but for the simple single engine unit, it is fairly easy to bleed.
 
Tom,

Google "seastar steering purging" and you find the manufacture approach for purging air out of a seastar system, both single and dual engine configurations. Also there are YouTube videos of the process. It sounds fairly straight forward. Good luck.

Dick
 
Certainly, first try the hand bleeding per the factory instructions. If it's still soft, go see a dealer.

I tried the hand bleeding when I installed an autopilot. There were too many ups and downs (now there's a set of engineering terms) in the hydraulic lines, allowing the air to be trapped and turning the helm pump was too slow to get the air out of the lines.

However you do it, the air needs to come out of the lines. Welcome to the world of hydraulics.

Boris
 
colobear":2ofkoqxo said:
If your wheel just spins for a while and then seems to "catch" and work properly you are likely low on fluid. A good diagnostic would be to put a little more fluid into the helm filler and see if that fixes the problem. It does not take very much fluid. Baystar is helpful with advice. I'd be sure to use their fluid instead of some other hydraulic fluid. My Baystar system did just that and I had to replace a seal at the helm. Another place to check is back at the steering ram, the hydraulic piston that moves the engine, for leaks at either side.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on how you replaced the seal at the helm.

Did you send it to be rebuilt? Or was a rebuild kit available to be ordered?

Thanks,
 
There is a helm seal kit available from Baystar. I don't know the kit number off hand. The seal I replaced was at the piston in the splashwell, not the helm. By the way, in the baystar manual is a list of other fluids that can be used, most are aviation brake fluids.
 
Found the number for the wheel seal kit: seal kit part # HS5147, Note this is for systems with engine power up to 150HP. If you have more HP you have a different system and would need to contact Baystar.
 
There are a few MIL spec hydraulic fluids which can be used in place of the (expensive) Seastar/Baystar fluid. Also, please note these are HYDRAULIC FLUIDS, not brake fluid.

First there is Mil-H-5606, a standard hydraulic fluid available at aircraft suppliers. This is what Seastar uses, though now they order it without the red dye. Somewhere they do mention that their fluid is indeed MIL-H-5606.

And there is Mil-H-83282, a synthetic non-inflammable hydraulic fluid backward compatible with Mil-H-5606. This is what I'm going to use when I re-bleed Journey On's steering this winter. Also red dyed.

And finally, for out brothers in Canada, there's Mil-H-87257, which has improved low temperature viscosity and otherwise is similar to Mil-H-83282.

And last, Seastar now offers a SeaStar Power Purge Jr which is a $220 electric purge system. Fortunately I have a Motive Power Brake Bleeder , $35, which I'll use this winter.

Boris
 
Check to be sure your ram end caps are tight also. They can weep a bit and lower your oil level. Also keep the level in your helm down a bit below the fill tube. I thought my system was leaking out the ram caps after tightening , purging and filling until I checked Teleflex FAQ's and found I had overfilled the helm. Being liquid under pressure...it has to go somewhere. End caps seals were the easy way out. Now it doesn't leak anywhere. Keep fluid and eye dropper aboard to top up slight weepage.
 
journey on":3i9m9rmj said:
And last, Seastar now offers a SeaStar Power Purge Jr which is a $220 electric purge system.
Click to expand...

I wish it was only $220. That is just for the dual cylinder adapter kit. The Power Purge Jr is almost $800. I reluctantly bought one after having major problems bleeding air out of my system. I have a dual helm setup so there are a lot more places for air to get trapped. Conventional bleeding never got all of the air out.

I will say that it is a well made setup and I am able to bleed both helms and cylinder in about 10 minutes with no mess at all.

If any brat is ever in the Portland area and wants to borrow it, feel free to send me a message.

I use this fluid:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/l ... key=508924

It meets all the required specs and even with shipping is about 1/3 of what the Teleflex fluid is at my local West Marine.
 
I used up my Bay Star hydraulic fluid. Very expensive.
Last summer at Katchemac Marine in Homer, Alaska I found quart bottles of it for $20. THey bought a 55 gal, drum and filled a bunch of bottles for resale. Good deal and it works well.
 
Jack in Alaska,

Here's a quart of Mil-H-5606 for $9 a quart. Don't know about shipping to Alaska, but check your nearest general aviation airport; they have aircraft supplies. And it's exactly what Seastar uses, colored red for leak detection.

Even better is a gallon of Mil-H-83282 for $32. This is the synthetic non-flammable version of MIL-H-5606.

Boris
 
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