TC255 Questions

E

edc

New member
Hi Gurus, I started my C-Brat membership with a thread on the CD25 vs the TC. I thought I would push my luck and see if you would tolerate some more newby questions but I chg'd thread names to more accurately reflect the content. I am leaning strongly towards the TC but have not completely ruled out the CD25/Venture26.

I have some engine questions re. the TC as I will be looking for a used boat/package. I searched around a little and got some info but still have some questions:
1) It seems most TC's have twin 150hp engines, some have 135hp and 140hp plus likely other sizes. Is the 135hp vs the 150hp difference significant other than top speed? Or, for example, is it worth a significant amount of money to get 150hp engines vs 135hp engines? I believe I want 4 cycle engines.

2) Are engine vintages significant? Older engines have carbs, newer have fuel injection -- the later is likely better, are the carbs OK? Have some vintages of some specific brands been troublesome or had high problem rates?

3) Are all brands (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha etc.) available with counter rotation? If not, is it a big deal on the TC hull to not have counter rotation?

4) How does the TC perform with one engine not operational. Will it plane? Does 150 vs 135hp make a difference when running on one engine?

5) How slow will the TC run with one engine for trolling purposes. Can it get down to about 2mph -- or is a kicker motor needed for trolling for salmon etc.?

6) System redundancy: are the systems feeding the two engines on the TC truly separate (batteries, wiring, fuel tanks, fuel lines/filters, etc.)
I have seen many twin installations (my experience is with inboard engines) where electrical and/or fuel components have been shared between the engines so you don't have the complete advantage of redundant power. I am hoping the TC is rigged or at least can be rigged so that any one failure will leave one engine running and usable.

At the risk of over-staying my welcome, I will stop the question list. Thks again for all your valuable help. Ed
 
1. My experience is that there is little difference in top speed with 135 or 155 hp when lightly loaded. Our 150s runs the same 45mph with me alone or with eight people. I have Evinrude E-Tec 150s. They are two-stroke gas and oil injected engines. When new (three years ago) they met higher emission standards than any four stroke. Also they were 50 pounds lighter per engine. Be sure to consider maintenance. The E-Tec came at that time with a 5 year 500 hour warranty. And there is no maintenance required for that same period. These engines only have 225 hours and there has been no maintenance.

My engines have counter rotation.

Our TomCat planes very well on a single engine. I have also been on a Yamaha 150 powered boat and it planed on one engine.

Here on the gulf coast of Florida we troll at about 5 knots. I run a single engine and idle about 5 knots. If you need slower speeds, a kicker will be required. It is easy to adapt to the boarding ladder bracket.

Our boats power systems are completely separate. I have added a switch to couple the starting batteries in case one is drained accidentally. Some owners have added fuel plumbing to combine the tanks if desired.
 
thks Tom, very useful info. I have heard very good things about the ETec engines. Are they a lot noisier than the 4 cycles? I have a Merc 200hp Optimax in my Whaler and it has been excellent in power and reliability and low fuel consumption (which surprised me) it is a 2001 (I bought it new in 2002) and I have had no problems -- routine maintenance but no failures. However it is very noisey compared to Hondas and Yamahas I have been around.

For salmon at least around San Francisco we troll about 2mph --- for Tuna I was able to troll 5 to 8mph which was very nice. I had a single diesel boat (Lobster type hull) and had to install a troll valve to fish Salmon. So I guess I would need a kicker if I went the TC route -- wow three engines. I guess you could tow some sort of sea anchor/bucket ?? but that is less than elegant. thks again, Ed
 
In my experience the E-Tecs are very quiet. Last night I patrolled our canal community most of the night at idle with only one engine. I could not hear the engine noise vibrating back off the sea walls even when very close. At idle, normal conversation is OK in the cockpit.

When we first got our boat, I made an adapter plate to mount on the swim ladder bracket to use a 2hp kicker that I have had since I was a child. I the plan was to use the kicker to get into some really shallow fishing holes when we were cruising. I soon found out that the TomCat maneuvers very well with the engines tilted up such that the total draft is just that of the boat. The old kicker is back in the garage awaiting another use.
 
No worries - we love to talk about boats here!

1). I would personally opt for the 150. No one ever regrets too much power but often regrets too little. There is a considerable displacement difference, at least with the Suzuki's, between even the 140 and the 150. I would also suggest 4 stroke engines. I use Etec's and Yamaha's on the National Park vessels I run commercially and the Etecs (brand new) smoke more and definitely smell more than the 8 year old Yamaha's. Those things look awesome on paper but I have not realized the performance or emissions claims in practice. (No insult to my friends intended - I think they are fine engines - just not my preference).

2.) I would not take a carbed engine if they were giving them away. (I have spent too many hours with bad boat carbs/rough running to buy anything other than fuel injection at this point). Otherwise I would say 'vintage' would depend - good running older fuel injected engines with evidence of good service - sure.

3.) Not sure - I think all brands offer counter rotation above something like 115 HP. My experience is with counter rotation on the Tomcat and cannot comment on how it would handle without it.

4.) I can plane off with one engine, but you would never want to do it unless it was an emergency. The torque placed on the liquid tie bar steering system is high running on one engine and your RPM's would be low (i.e. lugging engine). What you do have is an extremely powerful kicker in the event the other engine broke down and you would make it back to port with a slow but steady ride.

5.) With both engines engaged she runs pretty slow at about 600 RPM but I don't know how slow. Others may be able to comment here.

6.) Yes - everything is separate. One tank per engine, sep bats, sep fuel filters, sep wiring, etc. Some say your problems will likely be bad fuel which you would likely get for both tanks from the same fuel stop. However, you still have the benefit of 4 fuel filters per engine (fuel strainer at the pickup, fuel water separator, low pressure fuel filter, and high pressure fuel filter.
 
I have Honda 135's because I bought used and that's what it came with. The E-tecs look good to me (especially the longer maintenance cycles). I can troll at around 2kts on one engine at idle.

As far as how separate the two systems are that feed the engines, that's really up to how they're rigged. They can be set up any number of ways and the buyer/dealer determine what is done. On mine, one start battery does both engines but the fuel tanks, lines and filters are both completely isolated from each other. HOWEVER, if I fill both tanks with the same fuel (std. practice) and the fuel is bad (possible), the separate tanks, filters and lines don't help much. I have a separate house battery and jumper cables if I need to start the engines from the house battery.
 
I have to agree with we all love talking boats. You will get more information as more folks join in.

I read "The Hull Truth" almost every day That site probably has more information on outboards than any other site. --It seems like the E tecs are showing up with more problems than any of the other new engines. Some say that it is the fuel (ethanol, or octane), others say that some are not using the specific proper oil or running too lean. There have been several blowing a piston at less than 200 hours. A couple in the 500 hour to 700 hour range. I am quite sure that the E tec service is 300 hours, not 500 hours. You do have to use the Evinrude oil, and that more than makes up for the service interval costs. But there are a lot of E tecs which are run commercially and do fine. Generally the Suzuki's get some of the best ratings. Yamahas good, but last week there was a report of one blowing a cyl at less than 200 hours. The Mercs have always been popular in the high speed group. I personally like the 4 stroke, even though they are heavier. Hondas are not used as much in the sport fishing crowd--and I am not sure--they had been a little slow to bring injection and bigger alternators to some series--and some corrosion problems. However Hondas are very popular on this forum and it is rare to see a serious problem. I believe that at least from 70 hp on up the Hondas are all injected and have higher output alternators now. The 135's and 150's are good engines.

Most of the Tom Cat 255's will have injected engines. All can and should be rigged to have independent engine start batteries. Many of the engines have two charging circuits--and many of us have put on Voltage sensitive Relays for house or inverter bank charging. Many of the engines will have NMEA 2000 readout so you can get a lot of engine data right off the engine computer.

My boat will NOT truly plane (it will run 8 to 10 knots--but even with the permatrims that is not a planing speed) on a single engine. If you are trying to plane a Tom Cat on a single engine, you will be lugging that engine and is not good practice. I put the Permatrims on to lower my planing speed in really rough water. They may have cut the top end slightly. But my boat is heavy. I have extra batteries, tools, generator, dinghy, cruising gear--heavy camper back etc--we still get on top in 5 or 6 seconds--(with two engines) and top out in the 40's. I will qualify what I wrote above, with a change of prop it is possible that you might plane the boat and not lug the engine--but changing a prop is not easy in rough water!

I also have a bracket which holds the dinghy motor on the cockpit railing and can be mounted in the dive ladder fitting as a Kicker. I have a 3.5 hp merc I use for the dinghy, and it will push the Tom Cat at 3 knots. I would not use this as a salmon trolling motor however. Some of the other folks do Calif. Coastal trolling for Salmon in Tom Cats.

I don't remember what my lowest speed is at idle--but it is less than 5 knots--my recollection is something like 2 knots on one engine. I suspect that you can get pretty slow for salmon trolling if you want to use a drogue and one engine.

I would say that with any engine you will do fine on the Tom Cat.
 
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