matt_unique
New member
Roscoe":2n8d9k2d said:
I can't recall where I read this, but this always cracked me up...
"Arguing with a troll is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, both of you will get dirty but the pig with LOVE it".
Ha ha ha!
The Future of This Site
- Thread starter Da Nag
- Start date
I can't recall where I read this, but this always cracked me up...
"Arguing with a troll is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, both of you will get dirty but the pig with LOVE it".
Ha ha ha!
Bill,
I'm with you on this and will back up what ever you decide. I know that I have been a bit sharp at times, but thats the redneck in me.
Of late I have restrained from posting on some threads- heck, I don't even read most of the posts anymore.
I appreciate your restraint and agree that a warning prior to locking a thread should be sufficient. We had a "Grand Poobah" before and I am thankful for you and Mike, and the temperance that you have.
As I said before- I miss the "Old Pub". :lol:
I'm with you on this and will back up what ever you decide. I know that I have been a bit sharp at times, but thats the redneck in me.
Of late I have restrained from posting on some threads- heck, I don't even read most of the posts anymore.
I appreciate your restraint and agree that a warning prior to locking a thread should be sufficient. We had a "Grand Poobah" before and I am thankful for you and Mike, and the temperance that you have.
As I said before- I miss the "Old Pub". :lol:
I apologise to all and especially Da Nag for my part in these controversial discussions. I, as many do have strong opinionated believes in these subjects and when they are challenged find it hard not to respond, but agree this isn't the place for it. Da Nag I appreciate what you do and provide here and most definitely don't want to be a part of the cause of you discontinuing.
Jay
Jay
Thanks for all you do, Bill -- for my part, I will do my best to avoid starting or adding fuel to political / religious / environmental / etc. threads where there is likely to be contention.
It's certainly not easy. I once sent a PM suggesting he tone down the rhetoric to an individual who responded by asking me if I wanted him to stop posting to the site altogether. Sheesh! In retrospect, I should have said, "yes".
Folks, this site depends on all of us who care about it stepping up to the plate and policing it ourselves. From now on, the only thing I will trash on C-Brats are Bayliners!
Warren
It's certainly not easy. I once sent a PM suggesting he tone down the rhetoric to an individual who responded by asking me if I wanted him to stop posting to the site altogether. Sheesh! In retrospect, I should have said, "yes".
Folks, this site depends on all of us who care about it stepping up to the plate and policing it ourselves. From now on, the only thing I will trash on C-Brats are Bayliners!
Warren
starcrafttom
Active member
As I pmed da nag yesterday I am tired of some of this. I also dont like the boardings and do think that the subject could be disussed with out getting into a broader subject of politics. i would like to know the legal limits that this new policy would put on us the boater. just as I would like to know the legal limits of teh new whale watching rules. this is ment as a fact finding question not a game of whos to blame for the rules. We can and often do disuss loaded topics with out getting mean or personnal. I do have to say that this is the first place i want to come and talk about the world because I know you people and trust your insight to many topics more then those on other sights. I am sorry for any discomfort I have caused my freinds and fellow c-brats. I will limit my rants to rogers lack of proper release clips :wink:
I'd like to apologize to Bill specifically and all the fine members of the site for the role I played in both locked threads. I value everyone's opinion and have always felt that I can disagree with someone's opinion on any matter without finding the individual to be a "bad person". For example, Dave and I disagree a lot but both find each other quite likable on a personal level. However, I recognize that not everyone can take things in such a way and I recognize that not everyone wants to listen to me and Dave (or me and anyone for that matter) argue/debate. For better or worse, I'm incapable of not responding to stuff I disagree with. So, I'd be happy with a second rule that simply states "No politics". Regardless though, I'll keep my thoughts to myself on such matters in the future.
This winter, I plan to rip out the interior cabinetry and replace it with nicer materials - teak plywood, formica counter top, high quality drawers and pulls, bi-fold or rolling doors on the cabinets, a lower cabinet on the helm position to allow for a shock absorbing seat etc. My hope is to create measured drawings and parts list that others can benefit from. That will be a lot more fun that my rants....
This winter, I plan to rip out the interior cabinetry and replace it with nicer materials - teak plywood, formica counter top, high quality drawers and pulls, bi-fold or rolling doors on the cabinets, a lower cabinet on the helm position to allow for a shock absorbing seat etc. My hope is to create measured drawings and parts list that others can benefit from. That will be a lot more fun that my rants....
I just came into the house after cleaning the bottom of my C-Dory. I pulled it out of the water this morning to do some fall maintainance. I was under the boat on a creeper in 32 degree temperature, I had cold water running up my sleeves, gunky water dripping onto my face and about 1/100 of an inch clearance between my nose and the trailer frame. Not much fun, but I take a certain amount of enjoyment in working on my boat and keeping it in good shape. I also take a great deal of enjoyment from the time that I spend on the C-Brat site reading about our wonderful boats and sharing the many adventures, big and small, that we all enjoy. The site for me is all about the people, and the boats. Period. Let's don't screw up the best forum on the web. If this site decides that our one "Rule" is not important, then the next time I get under my boat to scrub the bottom, it will seem much more like hard, hard work.
Bill and Mike, Thank you both for all of the time and effort that you put into this place.
Robbi
Bill and Mike, Thank you both for all of the time and effort that you put into this place.
Robbi
Da Nag":qbhinvtf said:Yeah, right...would you vote for this man?
Nope, wouldn't vote for this one either.
I feel a tad uncomfortable having my name mentioned in so many of the thank-you comments here. While I completely understand the frustration and disheartenment that led to this, it is difficult for me to agree that the course we chose is in our best interests. It is far easier for us to hit the delete or lock buttons than to temper a discussion and soothe feelings, and each time we do it becomes easier the next. That isn't a path I am keen to follow, and you can infer anything you wish about my politics in that.
Probably the greatest hassle for the Admins are the PMs and emails that invariably follow what some consider inflammatory posts. I always have trouble replying with patience and grace because it seems so illogical to me that someone would continue to read something that bothers them so. If the urge to read what they consider vile, uncomfortable, or just plain senseless is so overwhelming that someone needs to lock or delete something for them, then the reader is as much to blame as the poster. Vulgar, hateful or otherwise societally unacceptable words are of course the exception because the harm they may do is manifest at first sighting. But a political discussion is always predictable, and the time to either stop reading or join in is easy to spot. Seems simple to me.
Several times in the past I have pointed out that if someone does not wish to be exposed at all to the temptation of viewing such topics we could easily make it so the individuals could not even see them. It occurred to me while considering this post that there is an unreal yet perceivable threat in that and I do apologize for any belief that I may have meant it that way. What I have in mind whenever I make such a comment is that we can create a forum that a member has to consciously choose to view and move any topics that might reasonably be considered objectionable to it. It would be a very simple addition and could be set up as a group that one could join and unjoin at will. If someone sees something they cannot abide a simple mouse click will make it disappear without costing them a shred of the experience they come here to enjoy. So often it is said that there are plenty of other sites out there for the posting of rants and diatribe; could be, but I haven't seen many of them because I do not choose to look for them. It would be just as easy to choose not to view the forum used by the more outspoken or obnoxious folks around here. Truth be told there are at least four forums on here that are restricted to Mods and/or Admins already and nobody has been offended by the filth we spew in those. (I say at least four because who knows how many hiding places the nerds have for themselves.)
There have been a lot of changes as we grow that I personally lament, and just like many others I truly miss the spirit of the old Pub. But as Bill pointed out it is not his or mine alone. I have pretty much let it be known that I do not wish to see this forum become all inclusive of the boating world, but I am more afraid of it being subjectively exclusive of philosophical discussion even when such topics are distasteful to some.
Mike
Mike, I like your suggestion of having a forum where one only goes at will and any controversial subjects be shifted there and if it isn't to late would like to see that happen. I apologized for my part in contributing to controversial subjects due to it being apparent these subjects were offending some and thought it would be best for the group as a whole and Bill in particular to just stick with boats and leave philosophical discussion out. That is not what I personally preferred due to very much enjoying reading and participating in them, especially in the Wyoming boating off season. Dogs, cats, sports, social chit chat, and the rehashing over and over the same motor and boat problems can get a little boring for me unless I feel I’m really helping someone else or I’m learning about something that will help now or in the future. That’s why I write up our adventures and post videos to share and enjoy the same in return so much. A philosophical discussion with people with whom I’ve previously listened to their advice, life and adventures and who I also respect makes it all the better. It is more than just being compelled to respond to a challenge of beliefs its also the enjoyment of viewing a debate and what I learn when the likes of Roger, Dave and other are involved. This site is the only one I actively participate in and if I hadn’t needed a computer for my nobletech navigational software I wouldn’t even have found this. Maybe it is just me or our winter isolation out here in Wyoming, so if most feel different I will do my best to go with the flow though I feel we are losing more than we are gaining. Jo-Lee for one will be pleased with the change, She thinks I spend way to much time here anyway.
Took some thinking to even make this post and I hesitated in doing so because at this point I’m not entirely sure just what would be considered controversial or not and if I’m adding to it now. Thought about a PM to you or Bill, but I think that’s what instituted the change in the first place. I think its going to be more difficult than most think to have nothing posted in the present That’s Life forum that can be construed as controversial and not have it be a dull forum. Making it pleasant and lively is our old tried and true “just be nice”.
Jay
Took some thinking to even make this post and I hesitated in doing so because at this point I’m not entirely sure just what would be considered controversial or not and if I’m adding to it now. Thought about a PM to you or Bill, but I think that’s what instituted the change in the first place. I think its going to be more difficult than most think to have nothing posted in the present That’s Life forum that can be construed as controversial and not have it be a dull forum. Making it pleasant and lively is our old tried and true “just be nice”.
Jay
I, too, do not know what the right answer is. I do know that I value this site tremendously. I do not want it to become like so many others.
I have no problem with philosophical discussions if they remain philosophical. Lately they have had a tendency to degenerate into bar fights. This I do not enjoy.
I am not sure that setting up a forum or group for inflammatory subjects will do the trick. Some may be able to change behavior between forums, but others clearly are not. If it is acceptable to "flame" or insult others in one forum, that tendency carries over into other threads, if not in words then in attitude. It's like allowing my child to misbehave at home as long as he/she is polite to others in public.
Just my two bits.
I have no problem with philosophical discussions if they remain philosophical. Lately they have had a tendency to degenerate into bar fights. This I do not enjoy.
I am not sure that setting up a forum or group for inflammatory subjects will do the trick. Some may be able to change behavior between forums, but others clearly are not. If it is acceptable to "flame" or insult others in one forum, that tendency carries over into other threads, if not in words then in attitude. It's like allowing my child to misbehave at home as long as he/she is polite to others in public.
Just my two bits.
For me it's tough to know. You would think by this stage in my life I would have figured it all out. To reduce it to an absurdity, on the one hand there's the "just shut up and be happy' people and on the other side the "where the hell is the outrage?" guys. As one who has been on the latter side all my life, and is just now completing a course of treatment for shingles, I can tell you it's a lot 'nicer' on the other side. But, as I used to tell my risk reduction classes "You'll never get AIDS if you stay home, in bed, alone. Now, lets be real". Sometime the sea gets a little rough, but in a C-Dory, we can make it through. This 'family' is really no better or worse than any other, but it's my family and I do love it. Thank you. 
eace:
eace:To Bill and all of the other people who make this great site possible, thank you very much. I can fully understand how difficult it must be to face things you find offensive on a daily basis while volunteering you time.
My 2006 C-Dory is sitting right outside the window where I can admire it anytime. I like this boat more than any other I have owned, and wish to keep it a long time.
Because this (relatively new) boat was built during a time of significant changes, it has already surfaced some issues, and will undoubtedly surface more as time goes on.
This site is my best and most complete source of information for finding out what those issues are, and more importantly, to find ways to fix these problems before they before they become serious maintenance issues, or even SAFETY issues. I hope the site masters are not going to shut off these sources of information as "negative" or "political" because they involve problems with the boat, or because their source involves a controversy, such as a court case.
I see the provision of this type of information and the related fixes as one of the most positive and useful aspects of the site. Thank you for all you have done in the past. Please help me and the Brats with similar problems by keeping these valuable information channels open in the future.
My 2006 C-Dory is sitting right outside the window where I can admire it anytime. I like this boat more than any other I have owned, and wish to keep it a long time.
Because this (relatively new) boat was built during a time of significant changes, it has already surfaced some issues, and will undoubtedly surface more as time goes on.
This site is my best and most complete source of information for finding out what those issues are, and more importantly, to find ways to fix these problems before they before they become serious maintenance issues, or even SAFETY issues. I hope the site masters are not going to shut off these sources of information as "negative" or "political" because they involve problems with the boat, or because their source involves a controversy, such as a court case.
I see the provision of this type of information and the related fixes as one of the most positive and useful aspects of the site. Thank you for all you have done in the past. Please help me and the Brats with similar problems by keeping these valuable information channels open in the future.
Here's one of those relatively rare instances where I disagree with Mike. I hate the idea of a separate, "join by choice" area to address this particular issue.
My reasons are both selfish and not. On the "not" side, I'm of the opinion such a forum would encourage the very discussions I have zero interest in reading - not simply provide an outlet for the occasional controversial topic. Also, emotions will certainly flare over into the public areas of the site. Such an area will be ripe with battles. Alliances and oppositions will be formed, and such things don't simply get turned on/off like a light switch when one switches between areas of the site.
On the selfish side - while the public at large would have the choice of not seeing the threads, I won't have that luxury. As an admin, I see everything - I can't turn it off. And one of the responsibilities I share with Mike, is ensuring obvious lines don't get crossed...meaning, I'd not only see the conversations, I'd be forced to read them to ensure some level of civility remained.
I too, don't know what the answer is. My post starting this thread had the unintended, but perhaps predictable consequence of pushing everybody too far in the opposite direction. Now, we've got folks thinking everything must be flowers, butterflies and ponies, or the topic is off-limits. The C-Dory lawsuit thread, which I had to lock due to some incredibly rude SOB (you know who you are), is a perfect example. There's nothing wrong with that thread...it's factual, and relates directly to us and the factory. Had I not bitched so loudly just before it was posted, my guess is calm heads would have prevailed there...instead, we ended up with everyone suggesting it wasn't a "happy" thread, and to stop discussing it.
I'm just asking for a little common sense, a whole lot of civility, and for members to treat each other like good friends. If people can pull that off, all the other problems will address themselves.
My reasons are both selfish and not. On the "not" side, I'm of the opinion such a forum would encourage the very discussions I have zero interest in reading - not simply provide an outlet for the occasional controversial topic. Also, emotions will certainly flare over into the public areas of the site. Such an area will be ripe with battles. Alliances and oppositions will be formed, and such things don't simply get turned on/off like a light switch when one switches between areas of the site.
On the selfish side - while the public at large would have the choice of not seeing the threads, I won't have that luxury. As an admin, I see everything - I can't turn it off. And one of the responsibilities I share with Mike, is ensuring obvious lines don't get crossed...meaning, I'd not only see the conversations, I'd be forced to read them to ensure some level of civility remained.
I too, don't know what the answer is. My post starting this thread had the unintended, but perhaps predictable consequence of pushing everybody too far in the opposite direction. Now, we've got folks thinking everything must be flowers, butterflies and ponies, or the topic is off-limits. The C-Dory lawsuit thread, which I had to lock due to some incredibly rude SOB (you know who you are), is a perfect example. There's nothing wrong with that thread...it's factual, and relates directly to us and the factory. Had I not bitched so loudly just before it was posted, my guess is calm heads would have prevailed there...instead, we ended up with everyone suggesting it wasn't a "happy" thread, and to stop discussing it.
I'm just asking for a little common sense, a whole lot of civility, and for members to treat each other like good friends. If people can pull that off, all the other problems will address themselves.
Naw, it's no big deal. Doesn't really matter to me as much as it once did. The idea wasn't new to solve an immediate problem but something I had kicked around for a while. And you're right - there's no way we could trust B~C to not bring his Treehouse language into the front room.