Thinking of Heading Off-Shore (70 miles) in C-Dory 25

D

Delphinus

New member
Hi Everyone:

I am seriously considering heading off-shore (70 miles) in C-Dory 25 ("Dori Den") - from Ocean City MD to Baltimore Canyon (Edge of Continental Shelf) – best fishing there, and absolutely beautiful water, by all accounts.

Dori Den has twin 90s, radio reception to 20 miles, EPIRB, and approved life raft.

I would go alone, leave at sunrise, and return to port at sunset.

I would go on a day, predicted to have good weather conditions, and when many other boats would be at Baltimore Canyon (a favorite spot). Although, the other boats would have arrived before me, they would be returning on the same general heading at the same time.

Personally, I'm less interested in fishing and more interested in the adventure. For me, "the journey is the destination!"

Would YOU do it?

All advice/encouragement/criticisms welcome!

Sincerely,
Gerry Ballough
"Dori Den"
 
It's all about the risk/reward...so some questions:

- if you have younger kids (say < 14) you might think twice about going solo

- if you have a wife you'll want life insurance paid up; this assumes you're the major bread winner, but regardless, you'll want to take care of her; and yes she'll get over you before the kids will

- get a SPOT and test it out prior to going out; put it on your pfd and never take the pfd off

Boats are found empty here quite frequently here in FL; according to our local Auxiliary Coast Guard the #1 reason is because people are peeing over the rail; one decent wave and in they go. Google "fl boat found empty".

So...would I do it? Well..I go solo fishing here in FL all the time. Sometimes I go at night. Most of the time I'm in a bay so I don't worry to much about it. Water temps are 80's and close to land.

Offshore, I have a hard time seeing doing it by myself. Nautical stuff aside, there's lots of things to go wrong. Hooked in the hand, fall overboard, sudden ailment, some yahoo runs your boat over because he's trolling on autopilot with no one at the helm. Around here we don't see too many people going offshore 70 miles and I suspect the # of boats is very limited. So even if something goes wrong your Calvary is a long way away. Plus it's expensive. So no not to fish...now if you go regatta style with a second boat with you, that might change the scenario a bit, but solo no.

On a side note. I have kids and a wife. Ins is paid up and kids are > 15.

In my opinion it sounds like to me that little voice in the back of your head is saying don't do this, but are looking for an affirmation that it's OK. At the end of the day you really should look at the impact of not coming back home versus would you do it. Either way I'll be curious to what you do - don't let me talk you out of it, but to answer the original question, I wouldn't go solo offshore to fish.
 
That sounds like a great trip. Pick the right day and go for it. We cruise at ~17 knts, which give a (140/17) little over an 8 hr round trip. At 2 mpg (conservative) that's 70 gal out of a 100 gal tank, so 1/3 reserve. Great trip and you should have a couple of hours for fishing when you get there.

Not a clue about East Coast weather, except you have lightning storms. So find a good weather window and go for it.

Let us know how the trip went and post pics.

Boris

P.S. Reading jbdba01's post above, you now have 2 diametrically opposite opinions. I know on the West Coast, there would be a weather window that makes it a great trip.
 
I also fit your definition of being "more interested in the adventure".

I'd go without question. Life is full of risks.....you could have a car accident on the way to the marina!

That said, clearly it would be better to have someone else on board; even better, to go with another boat. But sometimes, to do it at all, you have to go alone (which has its own rewards in any case).

I'm reminded of an adventure I had 40 years ago! I wanted to hike the Pacific Crest Trail (this is before it was well known). I wanted to go with a friend, and for a while I had one committed. But as the time got close, he dropped out. So I was faced with go, or no-go. As you might suspect, I went anyway. I spend 5 months alone on the trail. There were lots of people who told me it was too dangerous to go alone....there always will be such voices. It was the best experience of my life. It was especially wonderful being alone. If I had to plan it over again knowing what I know now, I would plan it to go alone from the get-go.
 
journey on":1u54qkj4 said:
T
Not a clue about East Coast weather, except you have lightning storms. So find a good weather window and go for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I believe we had 6,500 lightning strikes in Tampa a day or so ago. Pretty impressive to watch; we also get those 30-50mph winds almost daily somewhere around here - right around 3/4pm, but it can be very localized.

Heck this morning it downpoured about 1" of rain about a block away - at my house roads were dry. Then at 2pm it was about 1-2" in about an hour. Just the way it is over here.

Always watch your 6.
 
In life there are risks. I would go for it and enjoy the adventure! Just be cautious of the weather and make sure you have the tools and some spares you need to repair your systems, if you need to.


A great friend and I once hired a local fisherman to take us sport fishing off the coast of Sumatra, in the Indian Ocean in a wooden outrigger canoe. Water upwelling up through a crack in the center of the boat, and the skipper was using a plastic ladle to bail the boat out, powering through the big swells with a small pet monkey on his shoulder. No electronics, communication or safety gear at all. What a day, and still one of the most memorable and important adventures of my life. I'd do it again tomorrow given the opportunity. My point is, live your life and check off your dreams because who knows how long we have left.

Good luck and I hope you post about your adventure, I'd love to hear about it.
 
Sincere THANKS to jbdba01, journey on, smckean (Tosca) and PaulNBriannaLynn, for your great responses!

Hearing about your awesome experiences fuels my fire, and your precautionary words of wisdom are invaluable!

I posed the question because I have great respect for “C-Brats” members and am genuinely curious to know your individual opinions.

One of the reasons I want to make the trip is because venturing to Baltimore Canyon seems to “separate the men from the boys” when it comes to seaworthiness of small boats, in the Ocean City MD area, and there are many in 29-36ft range that do it.

I am very much enjoying this conversation!

Sincerely,
Gerry
“Dori Den”
 
There is no question that you and the boat can safely do the trip. We don't know your degree of experience or seamanship.

Forget "Spot", if you want a satellite communicator, of with DeLorme InReach--because of the 160 character texting.

Wear a Personal Locator Beacon, a VHF radio and strobe flash light combo (ACR). You also want to be wearing an inflatable life vest and a tether if you are out of the cabin for any reason.

Yes, you can have line squalls, thunderstorms, and a day you think is going to be nice can turn very bad.

The question is the range of the C Dory 25, and the speed of the boat, in heavy weather. Lets say that it kicks up to 8 to 10 footers on the nose on your way back? How are you going to handle that. You will be going at 5 knots--and 70 miles at five knots is 14 hours, if you are lucky….

What is the range for your boat in ideal conditions, and in the very worse condition you can imagine. I had 40 to 45 foot seas and winds in excess of 70 knots on a transAtlantic passage on my own boat between Bermuda and the Azores--no way that any small vessel could have made headway against that wind and seas. (My boat in that case was 62 feet LOA,, but I have one friend who circumnavigated in a 25 foot sailboat, and another who circumnavigated in a 27 foot sailboat. Plus I know Robin Lee Graham, who circumnavigated in a Lapworth 24 (at least the first 3/4--a larger boat the last bit).

Fuel contamination is probably your worse nightmare--a single tank--and twin engines--all fuel from one source. I probably would want as clean a fuel tank as possible.

Going 140 miles total, in a small power boat, lots of folks do this every day.

I would certainly start doing some shorter trips before taking a long one. In Calif. when we bought or built a "new" boat, we always headed up to Point Conception and then sailed out about 50 miles to intentionally look for heavy weather. The idea being that you want to test the boat and your self in that boat in an area where you can get help.

If you really want reliable communication from 70 miles out, then consider a Sat Phone, Marine SSB or become a amateur radio operator. VHF and Cell phones are not reliable for this type of voyaging.

Would I just run out to these banks for the kicks--maybe in a Contender, Regulator monohull, or one of the better cats--Tideline or Americat. It can be a long rough ride if the weather turns bad. But the boat should be safe.
 
Interesting thread, many valid points raised. Not much I can add, and this is a little off topic but,,,

I recently watched a documentary about a blind guy that walked the entire Appalacian Trail - 2,160 miles. He was turned down by 24 hiking clubs, the 25th accepted him and he fulfilled his dream.

It would be an adventure - with risks. Listen to the voices of experience here, weigh the odds, plan and prepare meticulously, then decide if it is a dream you still want to persue.

Regards, Rob
 
I run that far offshore fairly regularly in our Tomcat. Similar to what you suggest, I pick a particularly good weather window - usually 3-4 good days in a row and I go in the middle. The boat can definitely handle it. Bob's advice is good. With a good EPIRB and life raft (and a full time worn PFD), most of the major safety concerns are covered. The only thing I would question is going alone. I'm betting that there's a fishing web site through which you can either find a fairly experienced captain to go with you OR you can find a buddy boat to go out and back with. In the rare event you have a health problem, being that far out on your own could turn a treatable problem into a fatal problem. Having someone else with which to share the experience will enhance the experience. If that person is also willing to share the expense, you can take twice as many adventures for the same cost.
 
Any run offshore is a gamble, as is a trip down the highway. Weather is the key. I once waited for a weather window to run the Mona Passage from Puerto Rico to Turks and Caicos. The trades completely died, the sea was like a pond, so I had to motor across. I did brightwork touchup, waxing, and SS polishing across, what is usually a rough stretch of water.

Choose a companion well, if you decide on that route. A seasoned sailor is a great help in tight spots. But a companion can be more of a liability, one more thing to be responsible for, than a asset.
 
Hi Bob, Roger, Rob, tsturn and anchorout:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR EXCELLENT ADVICE AND PERSPECTIVES!
If I do this—all, or nearly all of--the precautions (e.g., equipment) you suggested would be implemented!

Three times I’ve had “Dori Den” off shore about 20 miles: Once in 5-7ft seas with my step-dad, in 25knots sustained winds and gusts to 35 (described two years ago on C-Brats Forum), that was quite a challenge. The second time, seas were 4-6ft and sustained winds around 17knots. The third time was relatively calm (less than 4ft seas, and winds 10knots). Many times, I’ve been out around 5 miles in 4-6ft seas. The steepest waves I’ve ever handled were occasional 8-10ft, relatively steep but not breaking.

I was planning to head out at sunrise and rendezvous with a very experienced friend of mine’s fishing vessel (I do not plan to fish), and start back before he does…thus, arriving back about the same time. Moreover, there would be constant traffic of returning fishing boats my entire trip back. No way would I go if any possibility of storms, or predicted seas of greater than 4ft.

Also, I have twice taken her on 100mile same-day round trips (inland water ways) with no problems at all. Engines were recently serviced and are running great.

Presently, I am 57 years old, and--by the Grace of God--healthy and fit. My youngest just graduated from college. All three children are on good paths. My wife has financial security...and happily still wants her life-partner's company.

Of course, I would relish the adventure, but this would also be a good opportunity to further test myself—with increased safety due to proximity of numerous other vessels—as well as improve my confidence with, and trust in, my wonderful C-Dory 25. I wouldn’t want a different boat; I just want to know mine better. If it’s too much for my boat, then I will not venture it. Besides, what other boat slides down the back of a 6ft wave, at 45degrees, like a dory. My quest is to improve my seamanship/knowledge to a level that approximates the seaworthiness of my boat. Although, I have no intentions of challenging conditions that exceed either, I do want to maximize my chances of handling the unexpected when it happens.

Thank you again for truly invaluable and potentially life-saving recommendations!!

Sincerely and respectfully,
Gerry Ballough
“Dori Den”
 
How about posting some pics of fish when done?

Just to come clean here. I don't own a C-Dory, but do fish a ton in my bay boat. For this thread most of the thoughts are equally applicable. Usual rules...boat plan, weather, communication... apply on any boat.

I find the site very useful for boating info. One day hopefully I'll buy a TC. Until then I live vicariously through reading about others cruises and occasionally I'll post some thoughts/experiences.

Tear 'em up.
 
File a float plan with family with estimated times of departure and arrival back to dock and have a well equipped ditch bag.


I would stay close to the other boats and hail them.

Do you have a good fixed VHF radio setup and tested it (Seatow automated radio check)? (good radio, cable and long antenna bc the receiving distance is about 25 miles for an antenna 10 feet above water and if dont have a sat phone or short wave radio or other comm device,,, all of these are inexpensive in the big picture )

Does Seatow go out that far? just curious

Have fun! I hope you have autopilot! and have good fishing
 
"I was planning to head out at sunrise and rendezvous with a very experienced friend of mine’s fishing vessel (I do not plan to fish), and start back before he does…thus, arriving back about the same time. Moreover, there would be constant traffic of returning fishing boats my entire trip back."

Sounds like the bases are covered. And I would enjoy some pictures too.
 
Thanks jbdba01, BrentB, and RobLL!

Great advice about radio (needs upgrade), radio checks and hailing, will check with Seatow, float-plan (already intended), don’t have autopilot, in process of purchasing offshore life raft and EPIRB, will be sure to bring camera but will not be fishing. Should be many boats I can photograph since planning to go between August 3-7 during white marlin contest. Will probably be hundreds of boats at the canyons, weather permitting.

One thing Bob Austin said, that keeps ringing in my head, is that I should probably do more intermediate distances before going the whole way out. I am sure he is right and will make that my immediate focus.

This adventure and Bob’s recommendation remind me of a quote by Bernard Moitessier:

A great cape (for me, open ocean) has a soul that is very soft with violent shadows,

A soul, as smooth as a child’s, as hard as a criminal’s,

And that is why we go!

One forgets everything, and thinks only of the play of the boat with the sea, the play of the sea around the boat, leaving aside everything not essential to that game.

One has to be careful though, not to go further than necessary, to the depth of the game.

And that is the hard part… NOT GOING TOO FAR!


Sincerely and respectfully,
Gerry Ballough
“Dori Den”
 
+1 on the warning about peeing over the rail.
+1 on the satellite Comms, and +2 on Delorme InReach vs. Spot. Hands down DeLorme is better in every way (I have 6 SPOT units and 6 DeLormes).
+1 on regular radio checks. If nobody talks back to you, head back west.

A bona fide PLB on your person (in addition to delorme) will ensure that distress calls are responded to if things go badly. When I am out in my boat solo I carry a delorme and a plb on my pfd at all times. I cruise in frigid waters with help many many miles away, but I'm confident that I'm coming home every time. But I have a lot of experience and increased my range as my comfort level grew, over years.

be aware of the gulf stream current. It can make your fuel calculations moot if it takes you away from home and you aren't watching.

I would not make it my plan to come home at sunset. Come home an hour or two before sunset. This leaves you a little wiggle room if things don't go according to plan. A schedule may, in fact, be you worst enemy on this trip.

Come home at sunset when you have a second boat and have done this a dozen times.

As long as conditions were good I would do this in a heartbeat. I would cancel the trip in a heartbeat too, if anything wasn't to my liking.
 
All above good suggestions noted.

Missed the one about practicing.

If you've never done this sort of thing before,
going that far offshore in a boat not intended
for offshore voyages, I'd recommend practicing
the distance as several coastal runs in the worst
weather and seas you can find.

If that blows your hair back and you yearn for more,
go for the real deal.

And, good luck.

Aye.

Grandpa used to say, "The sea simply waits for the innocent.
But it actually stalks the foolish, the unprepared and the
arrogant."
 
You probably have this setup but worth stating again, carrying a dedicated emergency tow line for you boat bc someone close to you will provide assistance (good samaritan)
 
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