Tidal Grid

R

riversun45

New member
Has anyone used a tidal grid to change oil and lower unit lubricant? It seems to me that it could be a slippery mess getting out of the boat and down below the boat to do the maintenance. I plan on doing the Inside Passage after the Friday Harbor gathering and would need to do the oil and lubricant maintenance a number of times during a 3K mile run. The other alternative is to have the boat lifted out of the water and have marina folks do the job. What say you folks.
Jon
 
On each of our Inside Passage trips, I did a couple of oil changes on the water - not too difficult, really, with a suction pump. Lower unit is another question. I had the boat hauled at about the half-way point for servicing at a Yamaha dealer. I didn't consider using a tidal grid, but I suppose it could be done.
 
I put 480 hours on my engine last summer doing the inside passage. Engine oil changes in the water are easy with a pump. I did this twice.

I had the boat pulled twice for top and bottom oil changes, once in Sitka and once in Ketchikan. Getting the boat hauled was easy and not terribly expensive (~$100 each as I recall). I'm in Colorado right now, but I'll give you the names of the shops next week when I'm back in Seattle.
 
PeterQ":2n7rmg3n said:
Just wondering....what is a Tidal Grid??
:?:
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"The time honoured use of Tidal Grids provides a traditional way of careening a vessel to perform maintenance...Tidal Grid structures comprise a row of piles for vessels to tie up to so they are kept upright as the tide ebbs. Some have a concrete base or floor; others have sleepers or rails to keep the base of the keel above the seabed." (source: http://www.cleanboating.org.nz/data/Tid ... s%20v4.pdf)
 
As long as we are on this subject, what is the sump pump of choice. We have twin Honda 40hp outboards. How much of the oil do you think is recovered using this method. It is appealing to me as it would save a mess using the conventional drip pan.
 
As long as we are on this subject, what is the sump pump of choice. We have twin Honda 40hp outboards. How much of the oil do you think is recovered using this method. It is appealing to me as it would save a mess using the conventional drip pan.
 
I've thought about it and talked with experienced grid users a number of times during New Moon's SE AK cruises, and so far have not given it a shot. Best I can tell, there's pretty good opportunity for a beginner (especially a single-hander) to screw up.

Also talked with one of the most expert wrenches in the country on Volvo DP sterndrives (which are pretty heavily stressed by the torque of our diesel engine). He's a drag boat racer, and has pushed to the limit and rebuilt more sterndrives than you can shake a stick at. Volvo sent me to him when our sterndrive cratered early in its life, to diagnose and fix it. He determined that it had some out-of-spec parts in it from the factory. On his advice, even though it was a year out of warranty, VP gave me a new leg, which he installed and set up meticulously.

His thinking was that if the drive was in good shape and had fresh top quality all-synthetic lube in it to start, and we were not putting extra stress on it by overpropping, 300-400 hours in 2-3 months should be OK. Even though the manual says to change it after 200 hours.

I've done up to 450 hours 9 of the last 10 summers now without changing drive lube along the way, and it's worked out fine. Must say however that I do run slow (lower stress on both me and the equipment) most of the time these days.
 
Boat owners do it all the time near our place in Maine. With 17+ feet of tide, it's a natural! We even have several "reversing falls!

Currently in Costa Rica enjoying the warmth but miss our boats!

Charlie
 
Google up "12 volt oil changer" and you'll find several, all about $30. They all suck. Those are all we use in the summer and they seem to do a pretty good job.
Grids, there is a pic of a boat on the grid in my AK 08 album. Using them is all about timing, have to have enough tide to get on the grid, have to have a low enough tide to get what you want done and you have to be sure you get what you want done before the tide rolls back in.....rain gear and boots would be the proper attire as it is a muddy slimy mess. It's not uncommon to have a waiting list to use the grid when the tides are grid friendly. With our boats, I would be tempted to just find a nice beach on a big tide, you wouldn't be able to get your engines down all the way but it would make a cool picture

One summer I awoke to a helluva racket, some yahoos had tiedto the, flooded at the time, grid pilings that evening and where trying to pull the now ,soon to be high, and dry, boat off. Their fishing day was pretty much shot

Enjoy
 
Interesting thread.

Just thinking out loud: With a relatively flat bottomed boat like a C-Dory, I wonder if one needs to use a grid, or whether it might be as good (or even better) to use a sandy area and just "beach" the boat (in calm water). Reason I'm thinking this is that with a deep keel (like a sailboat) you really need the grid for support and the pilings or wall to "lean" against. With the C-Dory, would it even need that? Would you gain much? And if not, maybe a sandy area would have fewer potential "scratchy bits"? (pilings, etc.).

However, I've never tried to change lower unit lube with an engine tilted up - is that possible? I also never really paid attention to how much "extra depth" below the hull bottom you would get on a grid as opposed to beaching (so you could have the engine lowered). With sailboats it's the opposite: Most everything you want to do is high up because of the keel depth. Maybe an inflatable "grid" to carry along for the beach to give extra height :D

Captains Cat":tb49shp8 said:
Boat owners do it all the time near our place in Maine. With 17+ feet of tide, it's a natural!
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Just curious: do they work on outboards on the grid?
 
My concern about the "sandy bottom" is that you really don't know for sure what is lurking 2 inches below the sand that may be hard an pointy, made by man or nature. Perhaps a little walk around that spot you want the boat to sit on would be a good idea, poking around with your boat hook. Just a thought.
 
Roll some logs on the beach, and let the boat take the hard on the logs--one right in front of the transom, the other about where the helm station is. The logs should allow you to get the outboard all of the way down. Not a lot of sandy beaches--but plenty of logs, and rock/gravel beaches.
 
thataway":322sgou5 said:
Roll some logs on the beach, and let the boat take the hard on the logs--one right in front of the transom, the other about where the helm station is. The logs should allow you to get the outboard all of the way down.
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Aha, good plan. And I guess that means that the outboard must be down. That makes sense - I just wasn't sure and figured maybe you could still force the lube in with one of those squeeze tubes even with it tilted.

thataway":322sgou5 said:
Not a lot of sandy beaches--but plenty of logs, and rock/gravel beaches.
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Good point! As the thread progressed, I sort of "forgot" that it was originally about the Inside Passage.

Would probably be nice to avoid the "crowds" and the slime/pilings/walls etc. at an official grid, since C-Dorys might be able to use other means.
 
Do you presently change your oil? There are a lot of things that you will need to take with you or buy to do the project.

I recall the repair area in Petersburg, AK and the ladder down did not look inviting-- vertical, slimy and of course slippery. You spill some oil and your name is mud.

On any maintenance project there is a chance for things to go wrong-more so on a trip or if you are doing something out of the ordinary. On a trip, I thought I needed some more oil in a Tremec transmission ( manual). I went to a shop that was locally recommended and the oil change boy wrenched on the shift fork adjuster rather than the oil fill plug, they do look alike, "kinda." I lost 5th gear and reverse for rest of the trip. Just to make sure the transmission was okay to use, I made a call to the shop that built the transmission and learned it was okay to drive.

A lot of times if everyhing is working as its supposed to, its just as well to not mess with it. Modern lubricants are really durable.

I would leave with good clean oil and expect it to make the trip with the same oil.
 
I use one of the 12 volt pumps to change the oil on my generator only because of the difficulty in getting a pan under it to drain it. The diesel oil is fairly thick - synthetic 5w50. What I have found is that the oil must be hot, as in engine at operating temp. then starting to pump immediately after it is shut off. Even then it is usually neccesary to prime the pump. Put the intake into the jug of fresh oil, raise it above the level of the pump, start pump untill it is primed, then insert it down the dipstick hole and start pumping used oil out.

If you gauge about how much hose you need to reach the bottom of the oil pan - insert it to that point then jiggle it up and down - you should be able to hear it when it hits the bottom. Then put a mark or tape on the hose - the next time you will know how far to insert it so it is at the bottom but not so far that it has started to curl back up.

Regards, Rob
 
I agree with the several posters who are not worried about going over the recommended oil change interval on a Inland Passage cruise. I always use Mobile One, 100% synthetic extended use oil for the motors & at times different brands of 100% synthetic lube for the lower unit. The extended use Mobil one is advertised for 15000 miles in autos & I have read very good consumer reports on its effectiveness. A good concern could possibly be whether or not to just change the oil filters when passing recommended change interval. Flyers point about a possible spill in the process is valid. Last summer in the town he mentioned, Petersburg, I had to change one of the motors oil due to a stuck thermostat causing the motor to make oil from running cold with unburned gas going into the oil reservoir. When pulling the dip stick to check the oil gas mixture flowed out of the dip stick hole creating a sheen on the water. There was more than it coming from several boats around the Marina, but still not something you want to deal with while having a NOAA water law enforcement, all black, high HP boat just one slip over, who I had just seen the Officer, also all dressed in black & armed, tie up & walk past me on the dock & with new information posters recently hung up saying it was now illegal to use soap on any oil spill & all oil spills no matter how small must be reported. There is more to this story, but will only share around a campfire or other such setting.

About grounding the boat. I think Bob's idea about the use of logs good, but I could see where that process could get a little tricky especially doing solo. I have had the Hunkydory on tidal bottoms several times without incident over a nights anchorage with due diligence before hand on bottom level & type. It would have been easy to dig out a small space to lower the motors for a oil change, but not so sure the same with lower units. If one feels they must change oil on the trip & would prefer not to pay for the change or change it themselves at a Marina, the C-Dory on the sandy mud type bottom or logs would both be preferable to using the tidal grid in my opinion.

Jay
 
A friend of mine - the owner of Gord Smith Marine started using synthetic oil about 10 years ago in his tow rig(commercial use). I forget what oil he was using but the company offered free sample testing. At each regular oil change interval he sent in a sample for testing. After a year in commercial service the oil was still being tested as conforming to all lubrication specifications! He now changes his oil yearly.

Of coarse you still have to either change the filters or use a synthetic oil filter.

I use synthetic in my generator to get more hours between changes and also it makes it easier for the diesel to start in cold weather.

My Volvo specifies only synthetic fluids.

Regards, Rob
 
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