Tomcat 255 batteries not charging

J

joechiro30

New member
I have been charging my batteries through shore power all winter. Just recently tried to start my motors and found that my batteries were drained. My batteries have not been charging even though my charging switch is on. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Most likely a bad battery charger. Do you have the factory "Guest" Charger charger? They invariably fail. The more resent "Guest" Chargers claim to be "smart" chargers, and they may be different...

Generally batteries do better with one of the "smart" chargers if left on all of the time: For example: Blue Seas; ProMariner-Pronautique, MasterVolt, Victron, or NOCO Genius are examples. They sample the battery and then apply charge only if needed. Most of the others are more like "trickle" chargers and there is some risk of damage to the batteries if left on all of the time.
 
Joechiro,
A circuit breaker is a simple magnetic on/off switch that very seldom fails, compared to Guest battery chargers, which often fail right after the 12 month warranty if not before. You are Truly Blessed if your 2006 Guest charger actually worked for 13 years.

Any 12v boat battery showing 0 volts (or under 10.5 volts for that matter) is ruined and junk. (“He’s Dead, Jim”. Get Over It). Don’t even try to charge it, it’s too dangerous.
After your new circuit breaker proves it’s not the culprit....

Consider replacing all three 12v batteries with flooded Sam’s Club group 31’s at about $95 each. This is your cheapest but very reasonable option. (I currently like Northstar g31 AGM’s but can not really justify the $440 each price because a switchcraft error can ruin all three. Maybe you can.)

Get a decent replacement charger from Bob’s list.

My experience with my Guest replacement Blue Seas P12 40A charger is one of my best customer service experiences in 45 years of boating.

Me: “It’s 2 years into a 5 year warranty (PS NO OTHER BOAT BATTERY CHARGER HAS A 5 YEAR WARRANTY). I have a meter 120v going in, but the display is blank. Could you help me through the troubleshooting?”

US Blue Seas Tech Support right there in Bellingham, WA: “Well sir, it died. I see your warranty registration. I will Fed Ex you a brand new factory replacement 40A P12 unit today (retail $799) with a sticker for free return shipping of your failed unit to us. Just put the failed unit in the new unit box and apply the free return label.”

Now THAT is Customer Service! I love Blue Seas!

Sometimes (actually, frequently, in my experience) buying Quality The First Time is cheaper than all the alternatives!

Best,

John
 
John you are right. The breaker is fine. But charger is bad. I have to replace it. I will go with the blue seas P12 40A charger. The same connections that went to the guest use the same connections for the P12?
 
Hi Joe,
Regardless of brand, replacing your unit should be easy as in 4 color coded wires. So I would tend to reassure you that you don’t need another Guest unit, based only on ease of wiring it alone.

I respectfully would ask Dr Bob for options here, as he has always had a much better picture of what’s available for which kind of user than I do.

One of my many weaknesses is a tendency to ‘buy the best the first time’, which is not always (or even often) the best advice for the majority of our beloved C-Dory fleet.

Dr Bob has given me absolutely invaluable advice on a wide range of boating options re our TC255. I hope he opines here. I am quite sure he and Marie are not currently exploring the continent’s waterways. If they are, while we are not, Eileen and I are going to be quite pissed.

He should be researching battery charger options for C-Dorys, like all the other home prisoners. Just My Opinion (chuckle).

Best,
John
 
ProNautic P battery chargers also have a 5 year warranty. I have not had to use it yet other than the battery temperature cable failed and they promptly sent me a new one. Very happy with mine. One of the things to consider with any new high output charger is to make sure to have proper sized cables for the length of run. The ProNauticP chargers are not cheap ether but we’ll worth it.

Tom
 
AS usual Tom gives excellent advice. I put in heavier wiring for the bigger charger. Probably #8 to fully take advantage of the 40 amps when necessary. You will have to upgrade Fues or brakers on the battery side also. Fuse for the wire size/amp output: There are two application types:

Critical (3% voltage drop). Non Critical (10% voltage drop). You can consider the battery charger non critical, but for most efficient use, if you will really be putting out 40 amps to one battery bank, then you would use the larger wire.

The length of run, includes the positive and negative leads--so if you measure 15 feet, the length is 30 feet total. 20 feet: 40 feet total.

With 25 amps you probably will be OK with#8 wire. That was what I used in my Tom Cat, and in the current 25.
 
joechiro30":1vuln3ut said:
Dr Bob
I am getting the Blue seas P12 25a

Can I just swap out the units and keep the same fuses and wiring as with the stock guest one?
Click to expand...

You can, but you should upgrade the wiring for the 25 amps. The Guest is 5 5 10, I believe (means the two outputs are 5 amps and one is 10 amps). Check to see what model you have. Also check to see if the wire was #12 or #10 currently. If you put 25 amps thru a 10 amp fuse or circuit breaker, it will blow the fuse or pop the breaker. I believe that the Blue Seas is capable of putting out all 25 amps to the house battery. The Guest put out 5 amps to each start battery and 10 amps to the house. The wiring would be sized for 10 amps. Not 25 amps as our excellent Blue Seas charger puts out.

One might say: " the house battery is the only battery which requires high output and thus you might get away with just upgrading the wiring there. It would be an unusual circumstance where you would have to run a lot of current to an engine start battery, but could happen. For example the engine start battery is run down by bilge pump, or just trying to start the engine, and then the charger is turned on.

At the very least up grade the negative wire and the house battery cables. You are buying an excellent very sophisticated charger which will do a lot of wonderful things for the batteries life span. In the long run the upgraded wiring would be the best road to take.

The wire run from the charger (under the aft dinette seat?) to the Starboard side aft where the Stb and house (?) batteries are in your boat, is at least 15' and probably closer to 20' one way. Thus you have to wire size for at least 30, and more likey 40 feet. Non critical at 25 amps you can get away with #10 wire--but if it is more you will loose more than 10% and possible overheat the wire, blow the fuse/breaker. If you only want the 3% voltage drop--then for 30 feet and 25 amps you need #6 wire!!! The minimum would be #8 wire.... If you moved the batteries (went to AGM batteries and put inside the cabin, then you would get away with smaller gauge wire.

Also you should run the Blue Seas temperature sensor to the house batteries. This prevents the charger from overheating and damaging the batteries.
 
Tom,
Thanks for the update that ProNautic now also has a 5 year warranty on their battery chargers. Good to know! Where are they made?

Dr Bob,
Thanks for the advice on wiring.
My P12 40A also has the option of dialing down the charging amps to whatever the owner wants, which would help the OP to be safe and upgrade the wires later.

I still haven't got around to wiring the P12 temp probe, but it's on the list.

Maybe we need another few years of home detention to get around to everything...hope not!

Cheers!
John
 
John do you have the remote? I am aware you can choose a user profile, which is where you "dial down" (Same with Pronautic/Sterling). I am not sure how accessible the front of the 12-25 (or 40) would be mounted where the standard battery charger was mounted. The remote should allow you do this without laying on your side, head into a cabinet...(or is your unit located in an more easily accessed position (as I did with my last 22, BC under the Galley)?
 
Hi Bob!

The Blue Seas P12 40A charger is mounted just inside the port next most aft cabinet with all the other 120v equipment ( ProNautic Galvanic Fail Safe Isolator and 120v Blue Seas 120v circuit breaker panel) and is easily visible by just opening the cabinet and pushing ANY button to light up the display. It’s the first 120v item inside the cabinet door, so it is very easily accessible with some leaning down (assuming you have a good knee, and by lying on my side if you do not).

Here is a pic of the P12 ‘status’ digital readouts:

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/blu7532-bl ... 20Products

Here is a pic of the P12 ‘remote’ LED-only proxy status readouts:

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/blu7520-bl ... 20Products

I like the precision of the 4-digit gauge much better than the approximate ‘indicator’ versions. I’m just that kind of guy. I don’t think the multiple-LED remote is anywhere near the precision I crave in a battery monitor (4 digits).

I do like my Victron 702 precision in calculating amps in and amps out; and I salute you for this great accurate find. Anyone who anchors out should have one (or at the very least, a $36 4 digit Blue Seas Vdc voltage monitor so you can shed load before getting down to 12.2v).

Happy Hunkering to All!
John
 
I installed the charger but now I need to trace the wiring to the three battery terminals. Should the wiring between the charger and the batteries go to each individual battery? I am trying to trace where the wires go from the charger to the battery but there is a jungle of wires I need to sort through.
 
gulfcoast john":3df0n4zy said:
I do like my Victron 702 precision in calculating amps in and amps out....
Click to expand...
If your Victron unit does not come with Bluetooth, I highly recommend getting the Bluetooth dongle Victron makes ($50 I think it was). The monitoring app is free.

That dongle has been one the best purchases I've ever made (I'm an "on the anchor" guy too). The Victron tracks an amazing amount of data, but the vast majority of it is useless to the user since one must push button, after button, after button to access it.....not to mention the tiny display. With the app, you get graphs of your usage hour by hour all night long, and a ton of other goodies. You can also set all options from your phone instead of those little buttons.

Don't get me wrong, my Victron 700 provided all the essential info I needed before I starting using the app, but that $50 was more than worth it to me.

P.S. Now when I awake at night worrying about my batteries, instead of getting out of bed to look at the Victron, I can just roll over, grab my phone, and have a quick look.
 
joechiro30":2mngnfl8 said:
I installed the charger but now I need to trace the wiring to the three battery terminals. Should the wiring between the charger and the batteries go to each individual battery? I am trying to trace where the wires go from the charger to the battery but there is a jungle of wires I need to sort through.
Click to expand...

The wiring should go to each individual battery bank. For example if you have two batteries in the "house bank" then they will be wired in parallel and there will be a ground and positive. Generally there is only one ground from the battery charger, which goes to a terminal block near the batteries, and then each battery is connected to that ground thermal block. The individual positive battery wires go to each bank.
 
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