Tow vehicle engine choice

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westward

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Greetings.

I just noticed a concerning review I thought I'd share since the topic has been covered here before: Evidently the Fiat/Chrysler 3.0L eco diesel engine (optional in the Ram 1500) has been deemed a lemon by a respectable automotive rating service. It apparently can catastrophically blow out main bearings at a very young engine age!

It would really suck to pay a big premium for economy and longevity over a gas engine, then have this happen to you.

For any who have the truck/engine already, this is not at all intended to be a knock on your rig. I hope yours runs trouble-free for decades. You may want to change to a higher viscosity engine oil per the report.

Best regards, Mike
 
Interesting report. That engine had me looking really hard at that Eco Ram. Came really close and then they got pulled from the market. Ahhhhh had something to do with monkey business in the economy testing department. I learned recently that they have been bringing them back after doing some major readjusting. I still like the idea of the advertised mileage and I like the RAM trucks.

Do you have a source for that article?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
"New" engine designs...there always seems to be some shake down period once they hit the market, especially clean diesels. And failure of main bearings at low mileage! YIKES!!!! I can't even imagine. I have dealt with some issues on the Ford 6.0 liter but they were/are minor compared to this.

I have a co-worker who special ordered one of these that he intends to use as his off-road truck.
 
It was too good to be true, just like the VW TDI and all the other high tech diesels that have been problematic. The reputation which was built on better longevity is hard to justify in these newer diesels.

My dirty old 12 valve cummins is still running like new, 24 years later and 300k mostly towing miles. Think Ill just stick with that even though it only gets 19 mpg.
 
19 mpg?! With a V8 diesel? Our 6.0 gets 10-12 when towing.
 
Inline 6, and that's just regular driving. Its only about 12 mpg towing the 22. The Parker center console we had for a while was a lot beefier, truck only got 8 or 9 mpg towing that.

Any fuel savings I've lost has been offset by the truck being paid off since 2003 :thup
 
I guess I'm glad I wasn't able to land the Dodge 1500 diesel, which had just come out in the 1500 when I bought mine. I tried but they wanted an extra price more than the regular cost of the diesel vs gas at that time. Diesels were that hard toget so I got the 6 cylinder gas. I average 22 with a cap, and 16 towing the C-Dory from California to Washington. I do slow down with the C-dory so if I still drove as regular I might get a little lower. Makes a big difference with the 6 cylinder gas in the 1500. It seems to have plenty of power, so I'm glad I didn't go with the 8 at this point.
 
I had not paid a lot of attention to this engine, except to note it was built by Italian engine manufacturer VM Motori. It had been bought by Detroit Diesel in 1995. This company has been around a long time, and made a number of small diesels popular in Italy. The problem is that going to the American Market with the trucks are relatively huge, loads are heavy and there are long hauls. A 3.0 liter engine which makes 240 HP and 420 ft lbs of torque. Vs the 5.9 L Cummins which started life at about 115 HP NA, and these days as the Cummins B series I owned one when it was about 180 HP and 420 ft lbs of torque in its first RV incarnation with turbo and after cooling in 1992 (Actually more HP and torque than in the pick up trucks of the era.) It ran fine, but was not a fast engine in that big a vehicle.

The current 3.0 makes it HP at about 4000 RPM. It max torque is 2000 RPM--which tells you something...Diesels have so much more stress on the components because of the high compression ratios. Some probably remember the GM experiment with using an automotive 5.7L block on Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles in the 1978-85 era..

Reading the threads on this engine--there are a lot of problems, but also a lot of folks who own and like the engine--with minimal problems. Would I buy one? No.
 
I was going to buy a new Dodge 1500 ecodiesel-- went to the dealer money in hand-- could not find one anywhere---- the inviro-nazi EPA had them shut down.

So---- I bought a GMC 1500 4X4 with the 6.2 gas, hoping for the best.
With the cruise set on 70 I average 24 mpg. Towing the CD22 at 62-65 I average 13 mpg.

I was going to get the 5.3 gas, but this truck had the larger engine. I wasn't sure what the economy would be---- but I am pleased with the truck. :thup

I can buy a lot of fuel with the cost difference by not buying the diesel.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn":xfnblmki said:
Inline 6, and that's just regular driving. Its only about 12 mpg towing the 22. The Parker center console we had for a while was a lot beefier, truck only got 8 or 9 mpg towing that.

Any fuel savings I've lost has been offset by the truck being paid off since 2003 :thup
Click to expand...

Ah. Roger that.

Before I bought our Ford I always heard these unbelievable MPG numbers from people that had myriad different 3/4 & 1 ton diesel pickups. Needless to say, I was pessimistic of the authenticity of said mileage. Call me a cynic. I was right. Although ours can get 17 or 18 on the freeway, it's more than offset by the 2-3 when accelerating from a stop etc. My best mileage has been 16.6 mpg and my worst 11.67 via a gas app. I could probably do better if I drove like an 85 yr old gandma..but that ain't me. :lol:
 
I would never believe a single claim of mileage...here is a site where people enter their odometer readings and gallons of gas/diesel they buy.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500

This is for the Ram 1500. Back up in the site for more general information to track to other vehicles.

The site can accumulate hundreds or even thousands of people's individual fillups for some vehicles. For the 2014 Ram 1500 truck (my year) you see over a million miles tracked. You'll notice 2 clearly separate humps for the Ram 1500, the one peaking about 16 mpg is for the V8, and the one about 23 is for the diesel. The 6 cylinder gas engine is much less popular, and I have the regular cab, which is a lighter vehicle, but you can apply a filter to see the 6 cylinder gasoline engine is about 19-20. That is about what I get when I average all of my driving, light working cap on truck, camper, and towing boats.. I think this site has a lot of useful information.

I'm very happy with my Ram 1500 mileage for a truck, and its ability to tow the CD22. It is a great match. I am thinking of a Tomcat, which will need a 3/4 or 1 ton truck if I want to tow it. The 1500 is not adequate.
 
Can't complain on my end... Toyota Tundra 5.8L 2016 18-19 city, 21 hwy, towing GB 2670 9K pounds 8-9mpg. Went back and forth on diesel and the $ were a bit over the top. Happy with what I have.
 
I have a 2012 F350 diesel, that gives me 13-14 mpg. It's a big truck, 4x4 quad cab long box with a camper on it and I have to check the backup camera on it to ensure that my 22 C-Dory is still behind me, because I hardly notice it's there. I have this truck for ranch work and mainly pulling a 20 foot stock trailer full of bison, which it does effortlessly. I just wish it was as fuel efficient as the Skoda Octavia wagon, similar to the VW Passat, that I rented over the past few weeks in Germany. Most of our miles were on the Autobahn where we averaged 130 km/hr (80 mph) and some touring around.. We averaged 50mpg on a 2.0 liter gas engine with lots of power to spare.
 
The good news is that I bought my 2006 Dodge diesel in 2007 with 50 thousand miles on it for 25000 bucks. I am not selling, but NADA shows it is worth 23000 average retail and it now has 170 thousand miles on it. If you can find a considerably older truck like mine, you are money ahead over any new diesel or gasser.

My truck gets just under 20 mpg at 65 mph empty and 14 mpg at 65 mph towing 6000 lbs.
 
I love my 06 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel. Have had it 10 years. Low 20s on the highway. Tows the tomcat like a champ. Supposedly 06 was the last year of amazing fuel economy due to emissions changes.
 
Bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee w/ecodiesel V6* in 2014. Love dat caah!
(Best-In-Class 30 mpg, 730 mile/tank range, 420 ft-lb torque, 7400 lb tow)**
Others do too: Ward's 10 Best Engines 2014, 2015, 2016.
Towed my C Dory 26 shorter distances no problemo. If I had a CD 22 I would
not hesitate despite my primal belief bigger is better for tow vehicles.

Aye.
Grandpa used to say, "Everything made by man can fail."

* Same VW Motori engine as Ram 1500 ecodiesel.
** Per Mfg brochure. Actual is about 10% less.
 
Here is my source. Hope for the sake of current owners it's wrong, or an exaggeration. I would recommend changing to the recommended engine oil however.

The 3.0-L turbodiesel V6 “EcoDiesel” supplied by former Fiat affiliate VM Motori and made available optionally on the Ram 1500 light-duty truck and Jeep Grand Cherokee can fail relatively early in its service life. So much so that the Ram 1500 equipped with the EcoDiesel engine has been branded a lemon by the Automobile Protection Association and Lemon-Aid author Phil Edmonston.

The EcoDiesel has exhibited an unsettling number of main bearing failures, an event that can unfold while driving on the highway, which owners have described in vivid detail. One owner recounted one incident as “a catastrophic bottom end engine failure at highway speed, breaking the crankshaft and sending a connecting rod through the engine block.”

The EcoDiesel can fail with as little as 30,000 km on the odometer, owners claim. Fiat Chrysler is quietly laying the blame on the thin viscosity of the required 5W-30 engine oil, and it has changed the specification to SAE 5W-40 full synthetic oil to better protect engine components. The technical service bulletin applies to all existing 2014-16 models using the EcoDiesel engine.
Click to expand...

Chrysler is not alone in this regard. Last year I researched the Mercedes Bluetec for a sprinter van engine and was shocked by the reviews. In Mercedes' case it is partly the thin oil spec, and partly the installed emissions control equipment to blame.

The good news is most modern vehicles will go 200K miles relatively trouble free if consistently maintained. Growing up we felt lucky to get 100K.
 
localboy":37zpqfli said:
New 6 cylinder diesel Ford F-150: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2018/2018-ford-f-150-diesel-first-test-review/
Click to expand...

One thing which stood out in the review:
Around town and getting up to 50 mph, the torquey diesel feels stout with 6,500 pounds on the hitch (less than 60 percent of its 11,400-pound max tow rating). Out on the highway, however, it runs out of breath. Passing with a trailer requires a good, long runup, and going uphill means putting your foot on the floor just to maintain speed. The truck downshifts until the revs come up to 3,000—and that’s where it sits until the road levels out again.
Click to expand...

My take away, is that for towing bigger loads, you probably still want the larger diesels--which are in the 400+ HP and close to 1000 ft lbs of torque.
 
westward":2ypfdwq5 said:
Greetings.

I just noticed a concerning review I thought I'd share since the topic has been covered here before: Evidently the Fiat/Chrysler 3.0L eco diesel engine (optional in the Ram 1500) has been deemed a lemon by a respectable automotive rating service. It apparently can catastrophically blow out main bearings at a very young engine age!

It would really suck to pay a big premium for economy and longevity over a gas engine, then have this happen to you.

For any who have the truck/engine already, this is not at all intended to be a knock on your rig. I hope yours runs trouble-free for decades. You may want to change to a higher viscosity engine oil per the report.

Best regards, Mike
Click to expand...

I have a GMC 2006 2500HD C/C long box 6.6 Duramax Allison, @ 228,000 mi. I get 19 mpg empty @ 60 mph, pulling the CD-25 @ 60 mph I get 15 mpg. With Zero problems since new.


:mrgreen: :beer
 
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