TOWING 6000 POUNDS

H

hank schneider

New member
Hello CB's
I am looking at a 23 Cape Cruiser and am wondering if I have enough car to safely haul the thing. Both my cars are rated at 5000 Lb and the boat owner estimated that the total wight including fuel and H2O would be about 6000. Is this out of bounds? I have a 99 4wd Mercedes ml320 and a 2001 2wd Toyota 4 Runner - both with the factory tow package. The Mercedes is listed in Germany at 7700 pounds - I'm not sure if this is due to equipment or regulatory difference. If I buy this boat I will be keeping these cars for a while. The Toyota has a little more Horsepower and torque.


Thanks in advance
Hank
 
Unless you've got some pretty heavy "stuff" or a really heavy trailer, I think 6,000 lbs is at least 15% too high. I rarely tow with full water but always keep my tanks full. Sure, the Jenny B is a 22 footer but the heaviest I remember was 4600# lbs including trailer. Towed fine with a 6 cylinder 2003 4Runner. No speed demon on hills, but no overheating either.

Don
 
hi hank I towed Sams cc23 from Sebastion to Naples about 230miles with a Honda Pilot 4whl drive 4500lb rating The manual states you can tow 4500lb plus have 660 lb in the cab of the Pilot
anyway I used a single axcel trailer with surge brakes and it did just fine not much difference then towing my cd-22
The older cape cruisers were about 2800lb this is what i was told when I was at the factory a few yrs back now that c-dory build them they added bigger windows in the back plus gussied them up a little they now weigh 3000lb so if you add the 2800 boat 400lb eng and 800lb trailer no water and veery little gas you could be towing a little over 4000lb whenevr we tow we make sure we buy our gas right before the launch site and also no water . we also put all our camping gear in the honda anyway i hope this helps . are you looking at the oregon boat that seems like a very good price with trailer and raymarine c-70 good luck . If you change your mind and want the c-22 cruisers there are 3 of them for sale in florida take care JIm
 
Hank,

Two things to think about. Please understand that this advice may be worth what you paid me for it.

1. You should plan for the worse, not the best. By that I mean, I would not be thinking that perhaps your two vehicle can pull it in the best scenario, such as a flat straight and traffic free road. Think instead of what will happen when you are coming down that steep grade, in heavy traffic, with the wind blowing and perhaps rain or snow all over and that stupid teeny bopper with the cell phone permanently attached to his ear suddenly looses control and slides sideways directly in front of you. Is that when you want to test if your vehicle can handle all that weight behind it pushing against the vehicle as you attempt to stop or avoid the collision. How about the kids in the back seat between you and that trailer?

2. When the cops arrive and start filling out the paperwork or the other drivers and their lawyers attempt to point blame on any accident you are involved in while towing the boat.

If you can answer either above scenario with a clear conscience and a resonable and legally defensable "yes, my tow vehicle was safe and up to the challenge of towing the boat", then go for it. If you are really wondering that maybe the tow vehicle isn't up to the challenge, it may be that your sub conscience is trying to warn you.

I hated trading in my Jeep Cherokee when we purchased our 22' Cruiser as it was supposedly rated high enough to handle the weight. I hated it until we started driving around with that beautiful thing hooked up behind us and the kids, dogs, water toys and enough supplies to go to China for a year stored in the boat and truck bed. Heck, I loved the fact that we could easily pass all those overloaded tow vehicles and the way home while my wife, kids and absolutely exhausted mutts snored the entire way. Having had to stop and help out a few busted rigs, I now carry extra supplies in order to do so as I have seen how break downs can destroy a good trip.

If your launch site is near and your trip is level and dry, I would think you could do it without too much stress. I believe either vehicle could pull it, but can they stop it safely? My dad used to tow a 17' Boston Whaler with a '76 Rabbit up and over the mountains, until the Rabbit decided it had enough of that. Of course my dad had at least a million miles under his belt and could out drive both Unser and the vast majority of the California Highway Patrol.

You might try searching for a forum that deals with either of those vehicles and then ask on those sites. Usually there is someone that will share their experience. I know the Jeep sites have many postings about how the short wheel based CJs TJs and Wranglers just do not stop long trailers well, perhaps the Mercedes is similar. Trying to control and stop a jack knifed rig is damn near impossible, no matter how great a driver you are and the Cape Cruiser is a horrible thing to crunch.
 
Hank I think it all depends on whether you are going to be pulling the boat all over creation or just using to tow a few times a yr like I do . we moor the boat at pappions house (mike taylors). So the only time we use the trailer is for maintenance or going to a close gathering .If we were going somewhere with mountains or long distances we would buy a tandems trailer with disc brakes and probably get a bigger vehicle . My earlier post was if you were just picking up a boat that was close by and you were going to get a slip at a marina or friends yard . I hope this clarifies my previos post .I agree with chivita for long term trailering .
 
Thanks for the comments - I expect to use the boat on the NC coast so the area is flat - there is a 3000 foot climb up the mountain over about 15 miles right by my home but it is 4 lane w/o much traffic. The trailer is a tandem with disk breaks so it should have some stopping power. I do understand Chivita's suggestion to be conservative.
H
 
The RV forums (RV Net is my favorite) are excellent on tow vehicles. One other item to consider is the weight of the tow vehicle. I prefer to have the tow vehicle weigh at least as much as the boat/trailer combo. Even with my Excursion, which is a heavy SUV, the CD 25 was very noticable. With an 18,000 lb RV, the 6500 lbs of the CD 25 is not noticable.
 
thataway":39azm8yp said:
One other item to consider is the weight of the tow vehicle. I prefer to have the tow vehicle weigh at least as much as the boat/trailer combo. Even with my Excursion, which is a heavy SUV, the CD 25 was very noticable. With an 18,000 lb RV, the 6500 lbs of the CD 25 is not noticable.
Click to expand...

Other than a few ultra-expensive Class A motor homes, I have not found anything that will tow the Tom Cat that weighs anywhere near the weight of the boat. So, while what you suggest may be the ideal, I doubt that few people will be able to achieve it. Do you agree?

Warren
 
Hank
Just to throw my 2 cents in. If you are involved in any accident and are towing over your vehicle limit you are gonna catch all sorts of grief from yours or the other guys insurance company. They hate paying out any money no matter whos at fault

Chuck
Bootleg Hooch
 
I pull my moderately loaded 22 with two different vehicles. My vehicle of choice is a 2005 Grand Cherokee Hemi powered 4x4. My second is a 1996 3/4 ton 4x4 Ford Power Stroke diesel. I prefer the Jeep simply becauses it is more comfortable but because of the weight and longer wheel base the Ford definately pulls better. The Jeep gets between 8 and 10 MPG pulling while the Ford between 14 and 16 MPG. They both have close to the same HP and Torque but the extra weight of the Ford and longer wheel base sure makes a difference in stopping power and sway.
 
Sell the Mercedes and Toyota, get a 3/4 ton truck and a Nissan to scoot around in. The weight of the tow rig is crucial in stopping, as are the size of its brakes. The 4-runners and other v-6 SUVs don't really get that much better gas mileage than the bigger rigs, cost the same and are less safe; gas mileage is in fact worse than many full-sized diesels. You could get a dedicated tow truck (lots on the market now) you know the type, looks straight, clean, big V-8 that some nice older fella has kept in his garage and maintained well, to use only occasionally that his kids don't want because they don't camp in the outdoors. You could drive more often something else, Subaru, Nissan Toyota etc. that would do more common activities. Again, I've never met anyone who wishes they had a SMALLER tow vehicle, but plenty who wish they had a larger one.

One question, have you ever slid into or through a 4-way intersection because the trailer you were towing pushed your rig through it? It is scary and not a scenario I care to ever repeat. C.W.
 
There will always be "Chicken Littles" when it comes to towing, Hank. If you believe some of the "Weight Police" over on RV Net, the only safe tow vehicle is Peterbilt, Freightliner, or Volvo. :roll: and you'll get sued at the drop of a hat if your tow exceed the weight rating of your vehicle. :roll: :roll: .

Somewhere between towing a C-22 with a "Smart Car" or with a Freightliner SportChassis RHA 114 lies the perfect tow and literally everyone has their own opinion. I towed within 250 miles with my 4Runner all the time. 5000 lb rated, 4600 weighed boat/trailer, 275 lb. hitch weight. Anything over that I would probably choose my Duramax Chevy 2500 or my 23.5 ft. Class C with the V10, but not because of any fear of lawsuits or being pushed through intersections. I do have good disk surge brakes on the trailer after all, and they work. More because of fuel mileage or overnighting capability.

Best place for boat specific tow info is Trailer Boat Magazine. The mag will also tell you that the 10-15% hitch weight recommendation DOES NOT apply to boats and boat trailers, and they do fine with 5-8% hitch weight although they do better with closer to 10%. What works for RV's doesn't necessarily apply to boats, I assume.

I started towing 5th wheel trailers in 1975 and in the 33 years since, I have never had anyone provide a cite from any court case involving towing overweight trailers. Only anecdotal "I heard" "My Brother-in-law saw" stuff and folks "Shoulding" on people (You should - he should).

I would bet that if lawsuits do exist, they would involve something truly stupid (see Smart Car towing C-22).... I have never met anyone who received a ticket for overweight towing a recreational trailer with a private vehicle either and, finally, IMHO the best indicator of towing liability is your own insurance policy. You can bet money that the insurance industry reacts very quickly to real or perceived threats. The best example is boat insurance in FL vs CA, especially after that last rush of hurricanes. My insurance rates have never been anything but reasonable throughout some 54 years of licensed driving, so it seems State Farm and Progressive aren't as concerned as the Weight Police are....

I would also think that due to the average age and experience of the drivers, single vehicle accidents involving C-Dory boats would be rare. Accidents where another vehicle is involved are pretty damn hard to avoid though 'cause feces occurs....
 
Morning
Just picked up my boat (23' Cape Cruiser) in Center Hill FL and have started back home. Drove to Jacksonville yesterday on 301 which is a 2/4 lane with lights to get a feel for things. Choose my 4-runner for the trip and it has done pretty well. Pulls safely and smoothly at 60-65 I get a little tense with anything above that. The trailer is top of the line and the brakes work very well - anybody know what you do to keep them working well when you dip them in salt water ?? The tow is marginal and will borrow a friends F 350 15 person van in the future - that should be enough to tame the trailer beast. Thanks for all your comments. There would be pictures except my battery iis dead.

Garcia

aka Hank
 
Hank you will love the boat what yr and power. the toyota will be fine with a big tandem trl with brakes for towing on the flats where you will be doing most of your boating if you decide to start going all over you might want to get the bigger truck or van thats what i will do with my cc-23
 
My Toyota Tacoma (rated for 5000 lbs) can tow my Tomcat (8000 lbs sans fuel/water/gear) BUT I would not do it due to the risks and liability.

If a Hurricane was coming for example, I would get the boat out of harms way with my Tacoma but I would not risk a long tow.
 
Hi Hank, a fully equipped CC23 does not weight 6000 pounds. When I first got my 23CC I took it to a scale and weighted it. It was 5000 pounds on a Pacific tandem axle galvanized trailer, Yamaha 90, full of fuel, 20 gallons of water, 3 batteries, two anchors and fridge. I have since added a freezer, microwave, coffee maker, blender, pot, pans, plates, silverware, drawers, BBQ, larger water tank, fish bag, larger sink, flood lights, tools, etc. and I figure I'm up to 5500 pounds fully loaded ready to go. One of these days I will have it weight to see exactly were I am. Even at 5500 pounds fully loaded if I waited till I got to the ramp to load up on fuel and water I would be towing about 4850 pounds.

I wouldn't worry about stopping if the trailer is set up right. Make sure the tongue is level once attacked to your tow vehicle. That really helps the trailer ride and track well. With my disk surge brakes I can't even tell the trailer is back there when trailering.

Good Luck

Bill
 
Hi to all
Trip home was pretty easy. On the interstate the setup preformed well. Cruised at 67 and left 10 car lengths in front. The narrow bridges under expansion in GA were a little challenging with the Semi's screaming by at 80.
Will post the make of the trailer - it's a good product. Hail to Toyota - pulled the 8 mile 3000 feet at 45 except for the 2 steep grades where it dropped back to 35.
Th boat is a 23 Cape Cruiser with a 135 Honda with 40 +/- hours - will post a picture if the fog lifts in Blowing Rock.
Thinking on naming the boat Ditch Witch - is that a common name?
Very happy to be sitting in my living room with the boat in the driveway.
Garcia
aka hank
 
Something to consider:

My neighbor towed his Bayliner around all last year with his standard Chevy pickup. Very close or just over the rated weight for the truck.

This year he replaced the transmission.
 
The boat is a 06 with a 135 Honda - has only 44 hours - looks like a new boat I'm going to put it in on Sat at mile 7 at the Dismal Swamp in VA and drive it down to Wilmington
 
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