Trailering a C-Dory, Trailer only

[colbysmith]

Found these photos of Bob's trailer failure in his photo album.







I believe this is his 42' pusher motorhome with a new trailer behind it.


I'll let others decide if the WDH had anything to do with this. I will not use one on my boat trailer! Colby

 

[thataway]

I am not sure what point Colby is making--but the broken pole tongue trailer was never associated with a weight distribution hitch. That broke because of the multiple, bumps in I 10--which I have driven cross country multiple times. The same route long before interstates was also used even in the 1950's.

The last photo he shows is the replacement for the failed single axle trailer. Note that it is a dual axle trailer, which are recommended for the 22's if doing road trips.

 

[colbysmith]

I am not sure what point Colby is making--but the broken pole tongue trailer was never associated with a weight distribution hitch. That broke because of the multiple, bumps in I 10--which I have driven cross country multiple times. The same route long before interstates was also used even in the 1950's.

The last photo he shows is the replacement for the failed single axle trailer. Note that it is a dual axle trailer, which are recommended for the 22's if doing road trips.

Hi Bob,
It was my understanding that you were using a WDH with this trailer. My apologies if I misunderstood. Still hard to imagine a rough road causing this failure. I wonder if it was due to the weight distribution of the boat on this trailer. It looks like the wheels are a ways back, leaving a lot of weight on the front of the trailer. Do you remember what the tongue weight was? I've traveled over many rough roads, and hit a few bumps that I thought for sure would bust something...but didn't... Colby

 

[Schuster]

Bob I can relate to how this may have happened on I-10. I towed a 21' Atlas Pompano from Ram Rod Key Florida to Washington state. I had arranged to Tom at Atlas Boat Works to purchase a tandem axle trailer and have fitted to accept the 21' and he arranged that for me. We loaded the empty (no gear inside) boat and everything was fitted correctly with good tongue weight measured at the scales. Driving across Lake Pontchartrain bridge was quite the experience. The segments of concrete to make the road were spaced just right so at speed(55-60) you'd go over high spot causing the bow of the boat to want to raise up while the truck was going into the low area causing the bow to want to slam back down. The happened in succession one right after another with no rest between and no way to avoid being there with the traffic what it was. I feel very fortunate that I didn't have the exact same thing happen to me. What a ride.
Lessons learned from this episode..... make sure you are in the outside lane of the highway to be able to slow down without major traffic disruption.

In response to Donalds original question, hauling a trailer empty is definitely annoying but doable for sure. I've hauled a car hauler trailer empty from Washington to South Dakota and it bounced around back there for sure. Set the brake controlled down in intensity so the trailer tires aren't locking up, secure any loose/moveable items to reduce affects of vibration from road wear and you're good to go. It would be helpful to have some weight back there but it may not be worth the effort to rig up something to safely carry the weight (ie sand bags strapped to the running boards or something similar). Again safety first.

 

[Donald Tyson]

This has been a very different and most informative conversation. One where it follows around a bit, and if it had been limited to just the original question, not as much would have been learned, thank you all.

Bob I can relate to how this may have happened on I-10. I towed a 21' Atlas Pompano from Ram Rod Key Florida to Washington state. I had arranged to Tom at Atlas Boat Works to purchase a tandem axle trailer and have fitted to accept the 21' and he arranged that for me. We loaded the empty (no gear inside) boat and everything was fitted correctly with good tongue weight measured at the scales. Driving across Lake Pontchartrain bridge was quite the experience. The segments of concrete to make the road were spaced just right so at speed(55-60) you'd go over high spot causing the bow of the boat to want to raise up while the truck was going into the low area causing the bow to want to slam back down. The happened in succession one right after another with no rest between and no way to avoid being there with the traffic what it was. I feel very fortunate that I didn't have the exact same thing happen to me. What a ride.
Lessons learned from this episode..... make sure you are in the outside lane of the highway to be able to slow down without major traffic disruption.

In response to Donalds original question, hauling a trailer empty is definitely annoying but doable for sure. I've hauled a car hauler trailer empty from Washington to South Dakota and it bounced around back there for sure. Set the brake controlled down in intensity so the trailer tires aren't locking up, secure any loose/moveable items to reduce affects of vibration from road wear and you're good to go. It would be helpful to have some weight back there but it may not be worth the effort to rig up something to safely carry the weight (ie sand bags strapped to the running boards or something similar). Again safety first.

 

[thataway]

I wanted to check my memory about weight distribution hitches and F 150's. I believe you will find this on each of the F 150's for some period of time.

2009–2014 Ford F-150: The maximum towing capacity is 11,300 lbs.
2018 Ford F-150 Towing Capacities | LetsTowThat.com
The maximum towing capacity can vary based on the cargo, vehicle configuration, accessories, and number of passengers. The vehicle's doorjamb label will have the carrying capacity for a specific vehicle.
When towing with a Ford F-150, it's important to follow these guidelines: When towing with a Ford F-150, it's important to follow these guidelines:
Do not exceed the trailer weight of 5,000 lbs when towing without a weight-distribution system.
The combined weight of the vehicle and trailer cannot exceed the listed GCWR.

The Current 2024 F 150 trailer towing guide states:

Notes: • Do not exceed trailer weight of 5,000 lbs. when towing without a weight-distribution system.
• Combined weight of vehicle and trailer cannot exceed listed GCWR.
• Do not exceed the Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight listed.
• Trailer tongue load weight should be 10% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option
weight) will accommodate trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing
vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed
rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.
• Calculated with SAE J2807® method.

The Ford 250 Superduty does not seem to have these restrictions and is the reason purchased a F 250 Superduty when I wanted a new vehicle for towing the most recent C Dory 25.

I have not checked the other 1/2 ton vehicles. Many times we push the limit on the 1/2 vehicles.

The tongue weight was less than 400 lbs on the trailer which failed. However the single axle trailer is basically a "yard trailer"--and I knew that when I purchased the boat--I figured I could "get by". Not so. I had driven that boat/trailer for a number of thousand miles. A short cut which bit me--I should have purchased a 2 axle trailer when I purchased the boat--but I was trying to save a few bucks...

 

[colbysmith]

Bob is correct that the F150, and I'm sure all other 1/2 ton trucks, recommend a WDH for over 5000 lbs or 500 lbs tongue weight. At 8100 lbs and 640 lbs I'm over that, and I still refuse to use a WDH on a pole tongue trailer, without extra bracing of the tongue. All I could find for reasoning on the WDH for the heavier weights, has to deal with equal distribution of weight so as not to disrupt vehicle handling. I think one also has to take into factor trailer braking, and that all specification weights, such as payload, GVWR, GCVWR, RAWR, FAWR, etc, are not exceeded. Also, with boat trailers, the recommended tongue weight is 5-7%. Running at appropriate speeds also factors in. I have towed my 25 over 41,000 miles now, with numerous trips over the Rockies. I do have an aftermarket suspension kit to help with the rear squat when the boat is hitched on. And the "rig" runs level. The F150 does a fine job towing the 25, and as long as I don't exceed 70mph, I don't feel the "tail wagging the dog".

 

[Donald Tyson]

Bob and Colby from what I've found, you are both mostly right. But, But, But. There is a document by Ford that States the wheelbase, Cab Style and Package. It must also corespond to the parameters you talk about. It's all very convoluted and nuanced, I beleive on purpose, to deflect the manufacturer being in a tight spot should something fail. The term "Max Tow is often used to discribe the 11,300 model. The base model is very low. Each Major Company has a "Max Tow" Model and I beleive Chevy has the highest at 12,800 +/-. The Max Tow package has a lot of extra components that the lower models don't have. My F150 has the trailer towing package and it can only tow 7800 lbs total, leaving me right on the edge of wether I should feel comfortable hauling a CD25.
A year ago I got rid of my Dream Truck...a 2013 F250 super duty. It was quite a beast and I sort of wish I still had it today.
My dealer gave me a nice ch

oops, this is the site where you can't post anything efficiently but suffice it to say I have a nice chart of the models and regs according to Ford for the F-150.

Do you all like Chevy for towing. I got away from the Super Duty Ford because with the solid front axle it rode and handled back roads so poorly. Until now whatever vehicle I had was also my cross-country sales vehicle. So the ride of the F150 won out over the Super Duty. I'm being told by loved ones that the GM trucks have independent front suspension and ride nicely even when empty.

 

[thataway]

When I purchased my 2019 Ford 250 SuperDuty the decision was based on availability, some minor features, and diesel engine. In retrospect, I feel that I made a mistake with the diesel. Although the Diesel is best for towing--it is not best for around the town. Part of that is the particulate filter and the DEF fluid, where the engine has to run hot enough in the exhaust to burn off the soot/particulate matter. As it turned out, we were at the end of our towing boats era because of our age, and some infirmities which come with being in your late 80's. The truck was used mostly as a daily driver. It was big-and thus harder to park in malls etc. I sure appreciated that range of over 1000 miles and not having to pull in daily to refill the fuel tank, in stations which often were not designed to accommodate boats on trailers.
I often used the commercial pumps, as I did with the RV 100 gallon tank, with both side fills, which took the commercial pumps higher speed and larger nozzles easily. The truck didn't do as well as the RV on that standpoint for the built in tank. The extra 35 gallon tank did have a large fill, but you could overflow if not careful.

The towing was excellent with the 3/4Ton--no squat as I had in the 1/2 ton GMC--and used adjustable air bags because of this. Also better cooling, and more "power"...I ended up trading it in on a Ford Explorer, plus some cash back (even thought the Explorer was top of the line with all of the gadgets and great new features.

Donald, I always check the manufacture specs, and try to avoid going over weight or not having the correct setup. When we converted a 30' RV with towing capacity of 5000 lbs to tow the 25, there were a lot of factors which went into the beefing up of the hitch, the way the hitch tied into the RV frame. Bolts had to be upgraded, heavier components for part of the frame added, then the transmission, including gear ratios were changed. Rear suspension was changed.

The one issue with going over weight on the rear axle, even with upgraded suspension, is that the weight on the front axle is often decreased-and the WDH helps that. Just beefing up the rear suspension does not.

I did a lot of reading and research before deciding on using a weight distribution hitch. I wanted to be sure the braking was still adequate. It was not a decision I made lightly. It also involved talking to RV techs who work on trailer suspensions, and well as my local hitch shop.

 

[Donald Tyson]

Bob that is a great dialog. I really liked towing with the Superduty. It was rated for quite a bit. The brake adjustments were great. I had the 6.2 ltr Gasser and it was definitely up to the task of pulling my trailers full of logs. It really sucked on Pennsylvanias washboard road surfaces when rolling along empty.
Todays towing is very nuanced for smaller platforms.
I beleive the way Colby explained it a certain amount of weight was added to the front and I be that helps steering somewhat.
I'l be studying up on this.
I really appreciate the discussion in these matters. I have concerns and a desire to get it right.

 

[colbysmith]

It would be interesting to see the weight reduction on the front axle of a F150, with 640 lbs of weight on the hitch ball. I suspect it's not going to be very noticeable. That weight is also going to change depending upon the cargo in the back of the pickup. I found it interesting that when I went back to check my recorded weights from scaling my truck and boat trailer with the boat fully loaded compared to empty (in regards to fuel and water), my front axle actually recorded a higher weight with the heavier boat. Ie, 30 more lbs on the ball. I have to wonder if I had more weight as well in the truck bed when I weighed in with the heavier boat. (I suspect I did, as I was traveling with the boat loaded, so more than likely had the back of the truck loaded as well. Yep, I did, just now looking at my record.) FWIW, here is that weight record I keep. I'll see if I can get it to upload without losing it's formatting. Actually, I decided it's going to be easier to do it as a picture.




I also use my F150 as my daily driver. After test driving a F250, and finding it handled like a truck....that is big to park in lots, and rough riding, I found the F150 to be quite a bit nicer riding. Also while still not a small car, a little easier to take into parking lots. As I've stated earlier, it does a fine job towing the 25, with or without full water and fuel it's tanks. But I don't tow over 75mph, and rarely go over 65mph. I have an aftermarket suspension system to help on the back end, and with electric brakes on the trailer (EOH) have full control of my trailer braking. The boat is balanced well with 8% of the load on the trailer hitch. When crosswinds start getting above 20-30mph, I tend to slow down a little more, to 55 or 60mph. I don't feel that the F150 is over it's capacity at all. I also use to drive semis where the tractor weighed around 20,000 lbs and the trailer around 60,000. So arguments against the weight ratio of the boat weighing more than the pickup don't hold much water with me. Colby

 

[Donald Tyson]

love to share some photos and details but I can’t even find my album anymore. People would get sooooo much more out of the site if we could Drag and drop like other sites. Shame.



I also use my F150 as my daily driver. After test driving a F250, and finding it handled like a truck....that is big to park in lots, and rough riding, I found the F150 to be quite a bit nicer riding. Also while still not a small car, a little easier to take into parking lots. As I've stated earlier, it does a fine job towing the 25, with or without full water and fuel it's tanks. But I don't tow over 75mph, and rarely go over 65mph. I have an aftermarket suspension system to help on the back end, and with electric brakes on the trailer (EOH) have full control of my trailer braking. The boat is balanced well with 8% of the load on the trailer hitch. When crosswinds start getting above 20-30mph, I tend to slow down a little more, to 55 or 60mph. I don't feel that the F150 is over it's capacity at all. I also use to drive semis where the tractor weighed around 20,000 lbs and the trailer around 60,000. So arguments against the weight ratio of the boat weighing more than the pickup don't hold much water with me. Colby[/quote]

 

[WCF]

Colby - I have often wondered what trim level your F-150 is? Is it an XL? Do you have the long bed/wheelbase (I think called "standard bed") or short bed?

 

[colbysmith]

Colby - I have often wondered what trim level your F-150 is? Is it an XL? Do you have the long bed/wheelbase (I think called "standard bed") or short bed?

I believe it is the XL. Pretty basic. Short bed (5.5'), with the extended crew cab. I think that's what it's called. Four door with a full back seat. I have the V8. Surprisingly, the V6 Turbo can pull more weight. The 5.0 L I have is only good up to 9700 lbs.

 

[WCF]

I believe it is the XL. Pretty basic.

Thanks! I was recently truck shopping with our 25 in mind and noticed how wildly the numbers vary with the higher trim levels.

 

[DayBreak]

I was reading that the payload capacity of a 2025 F-150 can handle up to 3,325 pounds. With such a huge payload capacity on a new special ordered F-150 using this option, I would think that the truck would in no way need a weight distribution hitch towing a 25 Cruiser or 26 Venture. The rear end of this truck should easily handle this load directly placed on the ball (no WDH) of a truck like this with the factory tow package. Am I correct in my thinking here for safely towing a CD25 or CD26 uning this F-150 truck?

P.S. the truck I am referring to also has a tow rating in the area of about 13,000 lbs. Thanks. Gary

 

[Donald Tyson]

Gary, You're correct but only for a truck designated as Max Tow...whatever the trim level. (perhaps they ar not using that term anymore (Max Tow).
GM also has a Max tow as does Ram. The biggest difference btwn the F150 and the Super Duty is the lack of floating axles. But beyond that the suspension and other pertinent Items are upgraded.
My Truck is as follows:
f150, XLT, 145" WB (6.5'bed), 13,500lbGCWR, 7800lb max trailer weight. I have the document right here in my hand. Buy what you want, if new only the v6 is avail. My older truck is 2014 and I absolutely love the outrageously dependable Coyote V8 is. As I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, the best year ever for the engine is 2014. It lack nothing empty and I've on towed my little drift boat.

I was reading that the payload capacity of a 2025 F-150 can handle up to 3,325 pounds. With such a huge payload capacity on a new special ordered F-150 using this option, I would think that the truck would in no way need a weight distribution hitch towing a 25 Cruiser or 26 Venture. The rear end of this truck should easily handle this load directly placed on the ball (no WDH) of a truck like this with the factory tow package. Am I correct in my thinking here for safely towing a CD25 or CD26 uning this F-150 truck?

P.S. the truck I am referring to also has a tow rating in the area of about 13,000 lbs. Thanks. Gary

 

[Donald Tyson]

Okay Colby, busted. Only a pilot would keep that in depth of data.....Interesting to compare it for people shopping. Thank you for sharing that.
How do you weigh your boat. Its always been my habit to go to a local grain elevator but now, with the recent Agway Bankruptcy, they're all out of business. Our tow speeds are pretty much the same except that I rarely if ever go 75.
The Super Duty 250 has that darn solid front axle. If I go back up to a 3/4 ton truck it will not be the Ford, though I love that 6.2.

love to share some photos and details but I can’t even find my album anymore. People would get sooooo much more out of the site if we could Drag and drop like other sites. Shame.



I also use my F150 as my daily driver. After test driving a F250, and finding it handled like a truck....that is big to park in lots, and rough riding, I found the F150 to be quite a bit nicer riding. Also while still not a small car, a little easier to take into parking lots. As I've stated earlier, it does a fine job towing the 25, with or without full water and fuel it's tanks. But I don't tow over 75mph, and rarely go over 65mph. I have an aftermarket suspension system to help on the back end, and with electric brakes on the trailer (EOH) have full control of my trailer braking. The boat is balanced well with 8% of the load on the trailer hitch. When crosswinds start getting above 20-30mph, I tend to slow down a little more, to 55 or 60mph. I don't feel that the F150 is over it's capacity at all. I also use to drive semis where the tractor weighed around 20,000 lbs and the trailer around 60,000. So arguments against the weight ratio of the boat weighing more than the pickup don't hold much water with me. Colby

[/quote]

 

[colbysmith]

Gary, the issue comes in on rather Ford or the hitch manufacturer say that the hitch is only rated for 5000 lbs or 500 lb tongue weight unless a WDH is used. Many times that disclaimer is on the hitch. I think a lot of it has to do with how the hitch is mounted to the vehicle. Which I don't entirely understand, as with WD, you are placing a lot more stress on the forward bolts or weld holding the hitch on. OTOH, it's the rear bolts or weld supporting the weight on the hitch with out WD. (So as long as your hitch support is beefy enough to handle the weight, you're good.) If it's a vehicle restriction, than from what I've found, it appears to do with the safe handling of the vehicle. And likely with a very large safety margin. This is what I found googling: Vehicle manufacturers often recommend a weight distributing hitch because it helps to evenly distribute the weight of a trailer across the towing vehicle's axles, significantly improving towing stability, handling, and safety by preventing excessive rear-end sag, minimizing trailer sway, and ensuring better steering control, especially when towing heavy loads.

Here's an interesting link: http://www.weigh-safe.com/towing-sa...stributed-tongue-weight-all-you-need-to-know/

BTW, the 10-15% tongue weight is the recommended for a utility or camping trailer. For boats, that recommended weight is 5-7% and likely has to do with the pole tongue vs. A frame tongue.

The comment I'd like to point out, is that with a WDH, you are transferring 20-30% of your tongue weight to your trailer axle. So you are in essence increasing the weight your trailer is carrying, not to mention that that weight is being carried/transferred by the pole tongue! I suspect most folks using a WDH on their boat, are only doing it to stop their SUV or Pickup from squatting in the back. There are other methods to increase rear end lift. If you rig is running level, you have trailer braking, and the appropriate 5-7% of your trailer weight on the tongue, and not speeding, and staying within all the axle and vehicle and trailer weight ratings, you will be find towing. (And if your hitch is appropriately attached to your tow vehicle!) If you need a WDH to keep your boat in line (no fishtailing or sway) then you are either driving too fast, or your boat weight is not balanced properly on the trailer, or your trailer is undersized. JMHO. Colby

 

[WCF]

I was reading that the payload capacity of a 2025 F-150 can handle up to 3,325 pounds. With such a huge payload capacity on a new special ordered F-150 using this option,

No, the F-150 for 2025 is still the same platform as 2024, still the same truck.

Maximum payload capacity is still around 2,400lbs for a Ecoboost 3.5 with no options except the maximum tow option. This is a pretty unusual truck.

https://www.vdm.ford.com/content/dam/br ... -Guide.pdf

Also, the maximum numbers in the guide above STILL aren't the entire story as specific options and packages beyond the trim can impact payload and towing. The best way to determine is by vin here:

https://www.ford.com/support/towing-calculator

In my experience most of the Max Tow trucks will come in around 2,000lbs payload in the real world with the bare minimum options a normal person would want.

You may want to watch TFL Truck and others on YouTube, particularly the maximum towing segments: There are many comparisons of towing the 7-8k weight of a 25 between half ton and heavier duty trucks. These comparisons go beyond the numbers.