Twin Power vs Single
- Thread starter grutledge
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amy and karl
New member
On our 22 they are both drawing from either the port or starboard tank, depending on which tank is selected. Our kicker runs off a portable tank.
Karl
Karl
Bob Austin made a good point with respect to the kicker, if it is intended to be used as an auxiliary motor, should have a separate fuel supply, which is something we intend to do. What happens if one's engine(s) fail due to bad fuel at a fuel dock? With respect to a separate electrical system -- if the auxiliary has a manual start (in conjunction with an electric start), that should be O.K., albeit there is always the potential, no matter how remote, that sharing a common power supply could take out the auxiliary as well as the main motor.
In my opinion, one has to look at twins as a single unit from a risk standpoint, which brings up Karl's contention that twins should have an auxiliary.
I had the honor of hearing the "Father of Disaster Recovery Planning", Mr. Edward S. Devlin, at a seminar more than 10 year's ago, and he said something that stuck with me ever since. Mr. Devlin said that everyone seems to think that Murphy never strikes, but in fact: it strikes all the time, and he went on to illustrate with specific examples, such as a town on the East Coast that was solely dependent upon a factory for its economic survival. One day, its well practiced volunteer fire department helplessly watched the factory burn to the ground, because the fire had coincided with a 500-year flood that prevented them from crossing a bridge, which spanned the waterway separating the island (upon which the factory stood) from the mainland.
One hears all of the arguments against an auxiliary: catastrophic engine failures are rare, spinning both props on a twin configuration is highly unlikely, you only need rely upon a tow service if you get in trouble -- really? Are catastrophic failures all that rare? Can you rely on a tow service when you are in peril?
Why not err on the side of being conservative?
In my opinion, one has to look at twins as a single unit from a risk standpoint, which brings up Karl's contention that twins should have an auxiliary.
I had the honor of hearing the "Father of Disaster Recovery Planning", Mr. Edward S. Devlin, at a seminar more than 10 year's ago, and he said something that stuck with me ever since. Mr. Devlin said that everyone seems to think that Murphy never strikes, but in fact: it strikes all the time, and he went on to illustrate with specific examples, such as a town on the East Coast that was solely dependent upon a factory for its economic survival. One day, its well practiced volunteer fire department helplessly watched the factory burn to the ground, because the fire had coincided with a 500-year flood that prevented them from crossing a bridge, which spanned the waterway separating the island (upon which the factory stood) from the mainland.
One hears all of the arguments against an auxiliary: catastrophic engine failures are rare, spinning both props on a twin configuration is highly unlikely, you only need rely upon a tow service if you get in trouble -- really? Are catastrophic failures all that rare? Can you rely on a tow service when you are in peril?
Why not err on the side of being conservative?
It boils down to personal preference is just my opinion. Double the maintance,on oil, plugs, lower unit oil changes, oil and fuel filters etc. Complicates things a little with the extra batteries. These days given proper maintance the newer 4 stroke and 2 stroke outboards are pretty dependable. I always liked the idea of being able to run one engine, but if you can't plane on one engine I'm not sure if I'd go that way these days. If the newer 70hp engines would have been available when I purchased I would have twins. But now I like the idea of a main and a 8 or 10 hp kicker. I have yet to add the kicker but will probably just get a basic pull start so there is no battery to maintain so it will be completely separate from the boats electrical system. I'll probably just let it pull fuel thru the same water separator etc from the boats main tanks. I would think twins with the extra drag and weight of the engines plus extra batteries rigging etc would get worse fuel economy than one single of double the power. The new Mainaut is not even equiped to handle twins I don't think. So it seems they are not big on the twin engine configuration. The same guy designed all these boats. He can't be all wrong. All bets are off if you own a TomCat. They all come with twins. If you own one or two of them you have money to burn 
D.D.
D.D.
Thanks for all the replies. I found it much more fun reading these posts as they came in rather than searching through all the old posts (which I also did). There are many good points that were brought up that I did not think of before. As you may expect, I am not sold on one method over the other based on the discussions. More than likely, I will buy a used boat with either a single or twin based on price/location and then justify in my head that what I bought is the better option . Our brains our wonderful things!
Couple of questions/comments
C-Nile - I really appreciated your comments. Well thought out. I also love the name of your boat!
Karl - Do you have twins and a kicker on a CD22? I didn't think that would fit? Or did you attach a separate bracket?
. Our brains our wonderful things!Couple of questions/comments
C-Nile - I really appreciated your comments. Well thought out. I also love the name of your boat!
Karl - Do you have twins and a kicker on a CD22? I didn't think that would fit? Or did you attach a separate bracket?
amy and karl
New member
We really do have twin 40 Suzukis with a Tohatsu 6 as a kicker on a garelick bracket. Mostly the 6 is used on the dinghy, I do not enjoy rowing. But it's nice to know it's there. We do troll for salmon with it on occasion.
Karl
Karl
Will-C,
The Marinaut was designed for only one large engine, which frees up a tremendous amount of space under the splashwell. However, we are installing an electric start, 9.8HP Tohatsu auxiliary motor on a heavy duty stern bracket. Here's a good view of the set-up.
[/url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=154621121292393&set=a.154621114625727.41054.139546952799810&type=1&theater
The Marinaut was designed for only one large engine, which frees up a tremendous amount of space under the splashwell. However, we are installing an electric start, 9.8HP Tohatsu auxiliary motor on a heavy duty stern bracket. Here's a good view of the set-up.
[/url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=154621121292393&set=a.154621114625727.41054.139546952799810&type=1&theater
amy and karl
New member
Here is an uglier version on our C-Dory.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
C-Nile,
I hope to see your boat in person one day. I was too impatient to wait for one, but I sure think they have some fine people involved with the product. They should have one at the Newport Rhode Island boat show this weekend. I would hope a C-Dory is displayed there but I think that might be a long shot.
D.D.
I hope to see your boat in person one day. I was too impatient to wait for one, but I sure think they have some fine people involved with the product. They should have one at the Newport Rhode Island boat show this weekend. I would hope a C-Dory is displayed there but I think that might be a long shot.
D.D.
Sea Wolf":27dhbv4o said:
Joe, You are right "Few are ever converted", though there are some, who after the fact, have wished they had been. (Maybe in either direction.) I still think there are good reasons for both or either, and the discussion will go on forever.
The most major, main difference is where you, (the operator/owner) are at in your head. Buying used, a buyer will only buy what he is comfortable with. If he is comfortable with his choice, then it must have been right .... for him (or her as the case may be). and there will always be someone from the other camp that will think he is wrong. Fortunately we still have some freedom of choice left in our good old US of A.
And freedom of speech.
(See me getting up on my soap box now)
I Love My Twins
Harvey Harvey
SleepyC :moon SleepyC :moon
Will-C:
The Marinaut is designed and built in the State of Washington -- we live in Connecticut, more than 3,000 miles away. You are correct -- exceptional people are building this boat. We were so impressed with its design, that we flew out to Washington to take it for a test ride. We knew right away that this was the boat we were looking for, and were comforted by the fact that Les and Kathy at EQ Marine are held in high regard by the C-Brats community. As for the Rhode Island boat show, that's up to EQ Marine. We know that after they finish our boat -- the first off of the line, they intend to build another to use as a demonstrator and boat show vessel, but we think their first venue will be on the West Coast. We see that you have a C-Dory 23 Venture; that is a very nice boat, too, and we hope you enjoy it for many years to come. The hull of your boat was designed by the same person who designed the Marinaut. So, C-Dorys and the Marinaut are distant cousins, albeit different manufacturers. Frankly, they are all excellent boats. We think that anyone interested in a new boat should go out to Washington, visit these fine manufacturer's, and see for themselves which boat best fits their specific needs.
Harvey,
You are, of course, right. There are many good reasons for a twin engine configuration, and it is personal preference. One can never eliminate all risk, but one can greatly mitigate the risk of having one power source with either of the two options: single and auxiliary or two singles.
Thanks,
Betty and Rich
The Marinaut is designed and built in the State of Washington -- we live in Connecticut, more than 3,000 miles away. You are correct -- exceptional people are building this boat. We were so impressed with its design, that we flew out to Washington to take it for a test ride. We knew right away that this was the boat we were looking for, and were comforted by the fact that Les and Kathy at EQ Marine are held in high regard by the C-Brats community. As for the Rhode Island boat show, that's up to EQ Marine. We know that after they finish our boat -- the first off of the line, they intend to build another to use as a demonstrator and boat show vessel, but we think their first venue will be on the West Coast. We see that you have a C-Dory 23 Venture; that is a very nice boat, too, and we hope you enjoy it for many years to come. The hull of your boat was designed by the same person who designed the Marinaut. So, C-Dorys and the Marinaut are distant cousins, albeit different manufacturers. Frankly, they are all excellent boats. We think that anyone interested in a new boat should go out to Washington, visit these fine manufacturer's, and see for themselves which boat best fits their specific needs.
Harvey,
You are, of course, right. There are many good reasons for a twin engine configuration, and it is personal preference. One can never eliminate all risk, but one can greatly mitigate the risk of having one power source with either of the two options: single and auxiliary or two singles.
Thanks,
Betty and Rich
Bill Uffelman
New member
when you get your Marinaut I'd like to pay a visit enroute to our friend's home in South Orleans Mass. For some reason it is easier for us to get there than to Seattle.
We need a boat for our home in Ocean View DE -- Indian River Inlet/Bay, Assawoman Bay/Ocean City MD and Chesapeake Bay will be the operating area.Traded Volvo XC70 for a Jeep Grand Cherokee just before Irene hit in August so we have 5000 pound capacity and DelMarVa is FLAT so towing is easy. Looking at Eastern 22 also.
Bill Uffelman
Las Vegas NV and Ocean View DE
We need a boat for our home in Ocean View DE -- Indian River Inlet/Bay, Assawoman Bay/Ocean City MD and Chesapeake Bay will be the operating area.Traded Volvo XC70 for a Jeep Grand Cherokee just before Irene hit in August so we have 5000 pound capacity and DelMarVa is FLAT so towing is easy. Looking at Eastern 22 also.
Bill Uffelman
Las Vegas NV and Ocean View DE
C-WEED":k92fq6b8 said:
Hmmm....how's there an advantage with a kicker?
Just asking :?
With twins I never touch the steering wheel after I enter the marina. (one side in forward, one in reverse).
Twins equal steering power. At slow speeds or high. Just couldn't pass that one up.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Bill,
Our boat will not arrive back in Connecticut until the end of October, after which point it is going directly into rack storage for the winter. However, the boat will be ready for use after April 15, 2012. We would love to show you the boat. When in Washington, we will be living on the boat for at least two weeks. So we will share with the group our experience of living and using the Marinaut during that time. We sort of think that the camperback will make all the difference, as others so equipped have found, but until we try living on the boat for ourselves for two weeks, we'll never know for sure.
Betty and Rich
Our boat will not arrive back in Connecticut until the end of October, after which point it is going directly into rack storage for the winter. However, the boat will be ready for use after April 15, 2012. We would love to show you the boat. When in Washington, we will be living on the boat for at least two weeks. So we will share with the group our experience of living and using the Marinaut during that time. We sort of think that the camperback will make all the difference, as others so equipped have found, but until we try living on the boat for ourselves for two weeks, we'll never know for sure.
Betty and Rich
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Twins? We don't need no stinking twins-
starcrafttom
Active member
I have not only a opinion but a single and a kicker. I think that the decision to get twins or not should be based on HP, weight, cost and performance not safety as a back up. If I had twins I would also have kicker as c-daisy does. even a small kicker would be better then relieving on one of your twins as a back up.
As stated by others most things that will take out your engine will take out both of them. Whether its fuel , electrical or a prop strike you are likely to lose both motors. Now I carry a small amount of fuel for the dinghy motor and most folks I know that fish off shore use only a separate gas can for the kicker. Either way you will have a back up source of fuel. That being said what is likely to be your fuel problem in the first place? plugged filters are the most likely to occur followed by a introduction of air in a leaking line or bad bulb. A more realistic solution to these problems is spares. Yes carry a spare filters for every thing and enough hose, connectors and a bulb to re run your fuel lines. Knowing how to do it before you have to do it is also a great idea
.
As for the electrical problems. I only own kickers that I can hand start. and believe it or not most of the mid size four strokes can be started with a rope. I have started my 90 several times with just the rope.
The other big concern, and most likely to happen it seems , is hitting a object that will damage your prop and or lower unit. This can be in the form of hitting a log, float, wrap a line, grounding or just throw a blade. I once threw a blade on a aluminum prop for no reason. Well there was a reason I just don't know what it is. At some point I must have hit or nicked or struck the blade on something and after a unknown amount of time it flew off while under 3/4 power. This might have damaged the second prop or not. In most cases I think you are going to lose or damage both engines.
I carry a spare prop but getting the prop off and another on is not something that can always, if ever, be done at the location that you threw the prop. So you still need to be able to move or stop moving that boat. This is where a anchor is important. I have heard people ask or even state if a anchor is important if you don't anchor much?? I have carried a anchor in every boat I have ever owned from my float tube on up to my 27. If you have two spare props you still have to get back to port to put them on or at least a near by anchorage. Well you are going to need a kicker for that.
So in the end I decided that if a second motor is really not much of a back up why have one in the first place. A kicker that is out of the water, has a separate fuel filter, and can be hand started is far more of a back up then a second motor could ever really be. Just one opinion.
As stated by others most things that will take out your engine will take out both of them. Whether its fuel , electrical or a prop strike you are likely to lose both motors. Now I carry a small amount of fuel for the dinghy motor and most folks I know that fish off shore use only a separate gas can for the kicker. Either way you will have a back up source of fuel. That being said what is likely to be your fuel problem in the first place? plugged filters are the most likely to occur followed by a introduction of air in a leaking line or bad bulb. A more realistic solution to these problems is spares. Yes carry a spare filters for every thing and enough hose, connectors and a bulb to re run your fuel lines. Knowing how to do it before you have to do it is also a great idea
.
As for the electrical problems. I only own kickers that I can hand start. and believe it or not most of the mid size four strokes can be started with a rope. I have started my 90 several times with just the rope.
The other big concern, and most likely to happen it seems , is hitting a object that will damage your prop and or lower unit. This can be in the form of hitting a log, float, wrap a line, grounding or just throw a blade. I once threw a blade on a aluminum prop for no reason. Well there was a reason I just don't know what it is. At some point I must have hit or nicked or struck the blade on something and after a unknown amount of time it flew off while under 3/4 power. This might have damaged the second prop or not. In most cases I think you are going to lose or damage both engines.
I carry a spare prop but getting the prop off and another on is not something that can always, if ever, be done at the location that you threw the prop. So you still need to be able to move or stop moving that boat. This is where a anchor is important. I have heard people ask or even state if a anchor is important if you don't anchor much?? I have carried a anchor in every boat I have ever owned from my float tube on up to my 27. If you have two spare props you still have to get back to port to put them on or at least a near by anchorage. Well you are going to need a kicker for that.
So in the end I decided that if a second motor is really not much of a back up why have one in the first place. A kicker that is out of the water, has a separate fuel filter, and can be hand started is far more of a back up then a second motor could ever really be. Just one opinion.
I have twin 35's as that was what was on the boat when I bought it as a used unit. There are some handling advantages with twins while in close quarters, which I am still learning, but if I had a choice I too would probably go with a single and a kicker. Maybe save another 100 pounds or so.