Twin Power vs Single

lloyds":1cts2fgx said:
. . . if I had a choice I too would probably go with a single and a kicker. Maybe save another 100 pounds or so.

I think this weight saving argument gets overused. While it is true that for some makes, models, and horsepower choices, the single plus kicker can weigh less, it is certainly not universally the case. I think anyone can make the argument for their own point of view by cherry picking their choices, but all I did was look at Yamaha's numbers, because that's what I have. Two F50's (or F60's) together weigh 474 lbs. One F115 weighs 414 lbs. That leaves the boat with the single only 60 lbs more for a kicker. Many, perhaps most, kickers on these boats are 60 lbs or more.

Maybe there are single/kicker mixes that will save 100 lbs compared to equivalent total horsepower twins, but at least in the hp ranges I'd look at, and at least for Yamahas I don't think it could be done. In fact, twins are probably lighter than what I would choose for a single and a kicker.

In the end, Les is right - no surprise there. Get what you like.
 
SleepyC:

Cable steering has a habit of all of a sudden binding up or fraying from corrosion to the point that the motor suddenly can not be steered. The same for hydraulic steering if a seal fails and fluid is lost. It may be possible to hug the motors and try to steer them or fashion a tiller from a paddle. But to counteract the torque produced this way is difficult. Most don't think about steering trouble until all of a sudden the wheel gets very stiff to turn.

Steering failures never occur at the dock! :oops:

With a kicker just grab the tiller and steer away...
 
For folks with C.C.'s and 23' Ventures one Yamaha 150 hp weighs in at 476 only about 60 pounds more than a 115 hp. The new Yamaha 70's weigh 257 each which if I was doing a new 23 the 70's might be nice for cruising up in Alaska. One thing about engine choices; I think it has a lot to do has to do with where and how you intend to use your boat. After being on Flaming Gorge, Jackson Lake and Yellowstone where the oxygen levels are down by up 24% It's nice to still be able to easily get up on plane and do in excess of 25 mph if need be.. We are glad to have not have under powered our boat. Carrying extra people and being loaded for a week of cruising it's nice to have the extra power imho. Running with 22's Cruisers with single engines we have about the same range as we carry 60 gallons to a 22's 44 gallon. We get about 3.2 mpg running at about 3500 to 4000 nets us about 20 to 25 mph depending on how we are loaded. If we need to really conserve fuel we just slow down to about 5 mph and turn on the autopilot and watch the world slide by.
D.D.
D.D.
 
This is one of those discussions that comes up from time to time, borders on politics and religion. :roll: I have a few experiences to share.

I have twin Yamaha 80's on my CD25 which I've owned 8 yrs since new. Never had twins before, but had this yearning desire to have them. Prior boats I had a get-home-kicker, usually an older, cheap vintage model of sorts (not the best idea). Had to use a 15hp kicker on a 20ft Crestliner (aluminum, modified V), took me nearly 4 hours to go 12 nm crabbing into the wind/waves, got back at dark, but was very thankful none-the-less.

First off, I use the twins' ability to turn the boat on a dime quite regularly, especially when approaching a mooring ball with the wind on the nose or just off. These boats, with their shallow draft, tend to fall off the wind rapidly at a moments notice, so I love the extra turning torque that the twins provide (1 eng fwd, 1 reverse) -- not an immense amount of torque, but sufficient in most conditions. It's saved my azz from hitting another boat close by several times.

It seems I usually hit some seaweed on every 3-5 trips, such that it wraps around and clogs the water intake, the temp alarm sounds, I shut down that engine while still running at speed, raise it up to clear the clog, lower it, restart and resume. I've gotten very good at this. I've had my passenger friends ask what was that alarm -- oh, just seaweed, already cleared it and resumed before they knew enough to get shook. ha. This is more of a convenience feature of twins, not a necessity.

Last year coming home at night from Catalina (22 nm), had my daughter with me, mid-channel one engine quit while at speed, its voltage regulator fried and took out the main fuse that powers the ignition system. I have a very simple battery system, just 1 battery per motor. I continued at 6-7 knots in moderate seas, no problem. The replacement regulator's heatsink was nearly double in size, must have been a design problem. This incident bordered on a safety issue, I was in the 4-mile wide shipping lanes when it died.

And just on my last trip, the starboard engine's temp alarm sounded soon after I dropped it to idle to approach the dock. I shut it down, continued on with one engine, docked, no problem. There were boats all around me and a moderate breeze. This would have been dicey to anchor, start the kicker, pull up the anchor then dock among all these boats. I looked at my maintenance logs, 4 yrs since I replaced the water impellers, that was pushing it, so they're getting new ones this weekend.

Another time, one of my batteries went dead (my fault, too much TV the night before on an old battery). So I started the engine with the good battery, let it run for a few minutes, then paralleled the dead battery with the battery switch, let it charge up for awhile, then switched back to separate batteries (very important), and started the other engine. The battery worked fine for the trip (Delta Extravaganza 5 days), replaced them both when I got home. Again, convenience, not safety.

Sure, the initial cost of two smaller motors is higher, and the maintenance is double (but not very costly because I do most myself), and the time to maintain a little more. But then there's just the sheer satisfaction and enjoyment of throttling up and syncing twins! A single just doesn't have that satisfaction. And having twins purring along while you're doing 8-12 knots in nasty conditions, waves breaking over the boat and engines, is well, just very reassuring. What can I say.

Would I get twins again? Depends on whether I'm going to be offshore a lot, what size boat, water/weather conditions I'm likely to encounter, etc. So far, I'd say yes, love my twins!

My 2c.
 
I forgot to mention, I average 2.6-2.8 nmpg. Some trips are 10-13 knots in big seas, others in smooth seas, but prefer 16-18 knots most all the time (4200-4500rpms). My boat is somewhat lighter than most CD25's without the water heater, holding tank, multiple house batteries, microwave, etc. I did install Permatrims a few years ago, I like them and believe worth the money, but the gas mileage has stayed the same.
 
Steve,

Honestly, on a larger boat like the CD 25 you have, a twin configuration makes a great deal of sense. Not only is it easy to maneuver in tight quarters, but it gives you enough power to maintain plane on one engine. However, I still maintain that having twins is like having a single engine configuration from a risk standpoint, albeit if you keep the fuel and battery systems separate, that risk is greatly mitigated with the exception of striking a log or the bottom with both engines down. (It happened a few years ago in Long Island Sound. A man picked up his brand new yacht, and he struck a log that was hidden from view by the chop. It spun both of his props.) Regardless of having a single or twin configuration, an auxiliary with a separate fuel supply is not a bad idea. Of course, a lot depends on where one is operating a boat. In Long Island Sound, the waters are docile compared to what people in the PNW or Alaska encounter.
 
Karl on C-Daisy,

What was your reasoning for putting your kicker bracket to Stbd of the twins? How much clearance do you have from the twins, and also the trim tabs? I have a kicker for the dink. At present I carry it in the cockpit, but I'm just thinking.

Martin.
 
Sorry for the delay Martin. There is plenty of clearance from the twins and the trim tab. I chose the starboard side to offset the full water tank and I prefer to operate the kicker with my left hand.

Karl.
 
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