Two small vs. One large Generator

D

drjohn71a

New member
Finally got the exact figures and setups for using two small Honda gensets instead of one large genset:

1 - You don't need the expensive, $275 30 amp, dual hook-up kit unless you are specifically needing the 30 amp receptacle. You can order the RV type 30 amp or the the twist lock 30 amp if you do need that.

2 - A single Honda 2000 outputs 13.3 amps continuous, 16.7 peak (30 min.)

3 - Two Honda 1000 units output 15 amps continuous, 16.7 peak.

4 - Connected with just the $29.95 wire set, you can take that 15 amp continuous, 16.7 amp peak, out of one, single plug-in, or you can distribute that load across any or all 4 plug-ins on the unit fronts.

5 - Two Honda 2000 units connected by the $29.95 wire set gives you:

One 20amp peak, 16 amp rated receptacle (note the 2000's receptacles take a 15 or 20 amp plug) and the second unit gives you 13.3 peak, 10.6 continuous split between the two receptacles on the front.

or...... you can split up to 33.3 amps peak and 26.7 amps continuous evenly drawn from both units' front four receptacles.


6 - Two Honda 2000 units give 4000 max, 3200 cont. Watts vs. 3000 max,
2800 cont. for the Honda 3000 unit.

7 - Two Honda 3000 units give Max of 6000 Watts, 50 amps and Continuous 5600 Watts, 46.7 Amps. Note that TWO Honda 2000s significantly out perform the 3000, and that THREE 2000 units would output more total than TWO 3000 units, although only two of the three would acutally be connected.

8 - Dramatic reductions in total weight per Watt/Amp as well as better Max and Continuous output, in all size levels, if one uses two smaller units instead of the larger.


John
 
Thanks for the comparisons...

"THREE 2000 units would output more total than ONE 3000 unit, although only two of the three would acutally be connected. "

Why not hook up about a Hundred of them, reverse feed the state and make some money! :shock: :roll: :lol:

charlie
 
I have a 1000 and 2000 Honda and carry the one suitable for the mission. If I'm going out for a long time or running the air conditioner, I'll take the big one. In winter, I'll take the small one.
 
I meant to say that three 2000's outperform two 3000s.

Flagold - now that's prob a smart way to do it. As for me, I need about 3000 Watts emergency and working (small welding, pumps, motorized farm equipment) so I got two of the 2000 units.

Also, sometimes a person might want to run a TV, grilling oven, water heater, air conditioner, heater, or charger, etc, and the two 2000's should easily handle most situations.

Another benefit of two small over one large is that much of the time they would be operating below their max levels and thus at lower rpm and quieter.

John
 
John,

You've got me way too curious to know why you need:

As for me, I need about 3000 Watts emergency and working (small welding, pumps, motorized farm equipment) so I got two of the 2000 units.
Click to expand...

on a boat?

The motorized farm equipment has me really baffled :smileo

-Carl
 
Sarge":yk8nj6nr said:
John,

You've got me way too curious to know why you need:

As for me, I need about 3000 Watts emergency and working (small welding, pumps, motorized farm equipment) so I got two of the 2000 units.
Click to expand...

on a boat?

The motorized farm equipment has me really baffled :smileo

-Carl
Click to expand...

I would think that one of those big green John Deere threshing machines or combines would make super auxiliary propulsion. You could just circle around and pick up the stunned fish that would pop up in your wake! :wink
 
I guess it's a perspective thing. When I see the need for all this auxiliary power on a boat complete with motorized farm equip, I start thinking grow operation! Possibly one of us has stumbled onto a way to grow pot with a hydroponic set up and these generators are powering the grow lights! :wink: How do you disguise all them plants floating around the harbor?
Mike
 
OK...... never let it be said an opening for flack ever went unnoticed on this site!

I need a 3000 to 3500 generator for use on the farm. I could have purchased one Honda 2000 and a second 3000-3500 Watt unit for the farm. It seemed more econimical and convenient for me to simply get two Honda 2000 units which would cover both the boat needs as well as the farm needs as well as a decent sized emergency generator for foul weather episodes.

On top of which, I only have to use One of the Honda 2000s for most uses....

John
 
Here is one of the RV sites, on making a similar plug that will take 30 amps--cheap and simple--not sure that it is exactly the same as the $300 unit.
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... uid=558963

NH Bob, has a number of comments and photos of the various solutions to this problem--and his conclusion is that using the output plugs is better than the banana plugs, because of a potential reverse polarity issue. (hot and neutral switch)--I am not sure about this, since I don't have two Hondas, and haven't done specific testing--perhaps Dr john can do this.

http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuse ... 567360.cfm

However, looking at the genuine Honda device, it uses shrouded banana plugs (there is another new term for some folks!)
http://www.testpath.com/ProductImages/CT2989-2.l.gif (I am not sure if this is the 4mm size called for, but you get the idea what it looks like)
--having the shrouded banana plugs, it prevents bare metal being available to allow an exposed prong--if you use black and red, banana plugs, and insert them in a coded manor, so that they are both the same polarity, it gets around the bare metal and potential shock issue.
 
For sure, it does not matter how you plug in the connector wires, color wise or polarity wise. The computer figures out the configuration and adapts to it.

The ground wire is a screw "U" shaped thing, so no way to plug that in wrongly accidentally.

The same $30 wire set works on 1000, 2000 and 3000 Watt Honda units.

The reason the 30 amp connector set is so expensive is that, I think, it does have an anti-feedback circuit as well as that none of the existing outlets on the 2000 are capable of 30 amp output.

John
 
According to the RV folks who have pruchased and torn down the $270 unit, there is no protective circuit--all of the circuts are in the generator.
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... uid=558963
This is an early version of the pricey box--but I understand that the new ones are the same.

NH bob thinks that if you plugged into one of the generator sockets, that there is a possiblity of reverse polarity:

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... uid=558963
"There's a 50-50 chance that the Honda/Mayberry non-polarized bananas will be inserted hot-neutral vs hot-hot with respect to the 125v receptacles on each generator. This is a dangerous condition if you were to use the receptacle on the reversed Honda while feeding the RV from the 30A/50A combined receptacle. So even though these clever EU's synchronize their outputs perfectly every time into the parallel receptacle, if the receptacle on EU#2 is ever used while in parallel with EU#1, the EU#2 neutral will be hot with respect to the RV ground and RV neutral. This is because of the way EACH EU is hard wired between its own bananas and receptacle. "

Again, I have not tested it, so I don't know if it is a real consideration or not. So all of the above is circumstantial--and hearsay, until you stick a finger in the socket!
 
Honda Installation Instructions, page 1 of 5:

Step #2 - "Connect the two red cable connectors to the two parallel outlets on each generator. The red cables are not polarity sensitive and can be connected to either parallel outlet."


Re: the Honda shroud connector.... maybe some of the cost is from the heavy duty frame supporting 30 amp receptacle. It is nicer to have the receptacle actually mounted on the generator.

Maybe some benefit of the shrouded connector is that it prevents the reverse polarity scenario described by the guy who built his own 30 amp adaptor.

John
 
Awwww great, I could see this leading to another variation of the "single verses twins" debate :) how about a main generator and a kicker
 
Ken....

Maybe you're right, but I think what most of us are wanting is a setup that is easy for us to load, unload, store and maintain. Lugging one of those 140 pound, 3000 Watt units is a mess on the water. Almost anyone can hoist a 27 pound Honda 1000.

Frankly, I was surprized at the performance of the smaller units.

I think what we're after here is not the "BEST EVER" generator setup, but rather posting more the information that allows everyone to pick what would work best for them and yet cover their electrical needs.

John
 
Agree with Dr John about the goals.

Probably a good solution is a 1000 and a 2000, if you can hook these two together, which I am not sure about, you then would have 3000 watts and run any of the AC units which would be appropiate. As Flagold has both, you can decide if you want the smaller 1000 or the larger 2000 as is appropiate. Problem is that if you want to run the water heater or even a microwave, the 2000 is necessary. For just battery charging, or a very small microwave, the 1000 may be enough...

If you look at the inside of the torn down Honda EU 2000i it is clear that the banana plug jacks are definately "polarized"--but not fuse or GFI protected. There is a red wire to one side (hot) side of the output plug and a white wire to the neutral side of the plug these respective wires run to the banana plug recpiticals. The inverter circuit sorts out the polarity--to bring the units in sync. Yes, the shrouded banana plug protects a person from contacting metal, but not from reverse polarity--if that is an issue.
 
Unfortunately, the Honda Parallel Cable Kit instructions states:

"Cable must be used between two EU 1000i generators, two EU 2000i generators, or two EU 3000i generators with serial numbers below 1034452.

NOTICE: Connecting two generators that are not of the same model usingparallel cables may cause a low voltage output, which can damage tools and appliances powered by the generators."

John
 
Thanks, John. One of the RV forums noted that all experiments of this nature should be carried out on the dealers' generators! I'll look and see if anyone has successfully connected the 1000 and 2000. But the Honda warning makes it clear that they will not stand behind the product (understandable) if you mix sizes. I guess it is a question of just how good the inverters are. There are some inverters which will act as boost for small generators--and this technology should allow mixing different sizes. Not sure about paralleling different sized inverters, but some of the brands of inverters can be "stacked" for both 220 and parallel to give twice the power output using the same size inverters.
 
Yes, Bob

One of the Yamaha models uses it's electric start battery to ensure constant voltage and allow larger starting loads. I'm not sure, but I think it was a version of the 2400 model.

John
 
That is the Yahama EF3000iSEB, which uses the battery to give a surge boost to 3500 watts thru the inverter. But a a mere 151 lbs, this is way out of our league!
 
Back
Top