USCG E15 fuel warning

Well *&(^%$(*&@#! Put 80 gallons of gas in C-Traveler today at a Love's station in St. Cloud, MN, for $3.19/gal, minus another .10/gal with the app. Then saw the side stickers closer:

IMG_6724.jpg

Makes me wonder if all Love's stations are running E15 in their lower octane fuels? (I fueled up at a Loves in Oregon between the California Delta and PNW trips and don't remember seeing any E15 stickers at the pump...at least conspicuous stickers... But I did burn most of that up within the month.)

Ok, I regularly run 10% ethanol in my boat most the summer, and have not had any problems doing so. (And don't think just because you fill up at the local marina, you're not getting E10! Many marinas won't tell you unless you ask, but many can only get that blend.) Guess now I know how Love's is getting away with their .10 off and cheaper prices. They are selling E15 and not making it well known. (I also noticed some stations selling Biodiesel rather than regular diesel. Not sure how the Webasto would like that...)

So for the chemical engineers among us, any suggestions or advice? (Or can you take my anxiety away about any damage that E15 could do in this one instance?). As soon as I get home tomorrow, I'll put some Marine StaBill 360 in the tank. I will be burning most of the gas out in July up at Isle Royale. So it won't stay in the tank more than about 6 weeks. Looks like my stops at Love's to fill the boat is done! But is there really any guarantee that even the E10 isn't a higher concentration than that? Colby
 
Colby,
You might want to siphon some of this fuel out and use it in your truck, then top up with non-ethanol fuel to dilute it.

My fuel agent told me that very little ethanol is blended into Canadian fuel because it is not subsidized like it is in the US. We have enough oil up here in the Great White North, but lack corn which is the basis of much of the ethanol. If ethanol is blended into the fuel here, it is most often done so in the winter as a gas line antifreeze.
 
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can weigh in on the particulars of damage to marine engines caused by Ethanol. My understanding is that it primarily affects carbureted engines because the gas (w/Ethanol) can erode the aluminum surfaces of the carb(s) while sitting in the fuel bowl for long periods of time. This eroded aluminum can then find its way into the jets and orifices of the carb(s) and affect operation like running lean, etc. EFI motors are way less affected, if at all. Like also, automobiles.
My twin Yamaha 80’s have 4 carbs each, and so far I haven’t noticed any operational problems in the 20 years of ownership, and I’ve been less than perfect seeking out non-ethanol gasoline. Lucky?
 
Taking Peter and Mikes (PM) suggestions to remove some of the fuel and then add pure gas (no ethanol) to dilute it, I'm pulling 30 gallons out, and then adding some "recreational fuel", (91 octane, no ethanol) from our local Kwik Trip gas stations. (For those wondering how I get the fuel out, I have a little inline electric pump contraption I put together that connects to my main fuel filter at the kicker connection. I use this to pump fuel out at the end of the year, and also to refill my generator from the little aux tank I have in my bilge with no ethanol gas) I did call the Love's I got the fuel from and spoke with the manager. She said they just switched to the E15 this week. Probably explains why their prices dropped .10/gal the day before. I also wonder if this was a new shipment of E15, what was the real blend if it was mixed in with what was already in their ground tanks? I didn't notice any reduction in my F150's fuel mileage, that I filled 95% of it's tank with the same gas. (I have noticed reduced mileage when running E15 or E85, in the past.)
I do run the E10 all summer without issue. However, at the end of the year when I had the 22 (smaller fuel tanks), if I was leaving gas in it over the winter, I always did my last seasonal fill up with no ethanol fuel. With the 25 and it's 100g tank, I have been storing it empty over the winter. But run non-ethanol through the main and kicker while winterizing them.
 
Dora~Jean":1zc4y36q said:
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can weigh in on the particulars of damage to marine engines caused by Ethanol. My understanding is that it primarily affects carbureted engines because the gas (w/Ethanol) can erode the aluminum surfaces of the carb(s) while sitting in the fuel bowl for long periods of time. This eroded aluminum can then find its way into the jets and orifices of the carb(s) and affect operation like running lean, etc. EFI motors are way less affected, if at all. Like also, automobiles.
My twin Yamaha 80’s have 4 carbs each, and so far I haven’t noticed any operational problems in the 20 years of ownership, and I’ve been less than perfect seeking out non-ethanol gasoline. Lucky?
Click to expand...

There are four things that can cause trouble for some engines (E10 fuel).

1. Some materials are incompatible with ethanol. Ethanol can cause hoses and such to deteriorate. This can gum up and an engine when the debris from the hoses gets in fine things like carburetors. Engines manufactured in the last 25 or so years will not have any parts that are affected by ethanol.
2. Ethanol is a solvent. If you haven't used it before, it will clean out your engine and hoses. The stuff it cleans out gets in the engine and can cause problems. Once cleaned, you should have any more problems. If you regularly use ethanol fuel, your engine will be cleaner than those that don't.
3. Ethanol is hydrophilic. This means it can have water in the fuel. People freak out about this. However, the amount of water that ethanol fuel can entrain is a pretty small percentage (0.41%). This does not affect the engine operation. In addition, since ethanol fuel can carry this water, it gets burned out of the tank by the engine and the water does not accumulate in the tank.
4. Phase separation. This is the real problem. The water and ethanol separate from the gasoline. When phase separation occurs, the ethanol fuel pretty much is unusable. If you try to run an engine with phase separated fuel, you are pretty much pumping water though it (water is at the bottom of the tank where the pickup is). However, phase separation does not occur on a regular basis. You need the right conditions and the fuel needs to sit for a long time while vented to the atmosphere (to absorb water). IME, using the fuel in 6-9 months you should not experience phase separation.

I run my boat with fuel I get at an auto gas station on the way to the ramp. It may get E0 fuel if I get fuel from a fuel dock, but I don't go out of my way for E0 fuel. My boat sits over the winter with whatever fuel is left in the tanks with the appropriate amount of Stabil. It still runs fine in the spring on the previous season's remaining gas.
 
Thanks for chiming in. I doubt I’d have any problems since I routinely run E10 and the E15 will be used within 2 months. But still, since I’ve already started exchanging 30 gallons of it….
Colby

ssobol":1bv5jux9 said:
Dora~Jean":1bv5jux9 said:
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can weigh in on the particulars of damage to marine engines caused by Ethanol. My understanding is that it primarily affects carbureted engines because the gas (w/Ethanol) can erode the aluminum surfaces of the carb(s) while sitting in the fuel bowl for long periods of time. This eroded aluminum can then find its way into the jets and orifices of the carb(s) and affect operation like running lean, etc. EFI motors are way less affected, if at all. Like also, automobiles.
My twin Yamaha 80’s have 4 carbs each, and so far I haven’t noticed any operational problems in the 20 years of ownership, and I’ve been less than perfect seeking out non-ethanol gasoline. Lucky?
Click to expand...

There are four things that can cause trouble for some engines (E10 fuel).

1. Some materials are incompatible with ethanol. Ethanol can cause hoses and such to deteriorate. This can gum up and an engine when the debris from the hoses gets in fine things like carburetors. Engines manufactured in the last 25 or so years will not have any parts that are affected by ethanol.
2. Ethanol is a solvent. If you haven't used it before, it will clean out your engine and hoses. The stuff it cleans out gets in the engine and can cause problems. Once cleaned, you should have any more problems. If you regularly use ethanol fuel, your engine will be cleaner than those that don't.
3. Ethanol is hydrophilic. This means it can have water in the fuel. People freak out about this. However, the amount of water that ethanol fuel can entrain is a pretty small percentage (0.41%). This does not affect the engine operation. In addition, since ethanol fuel can carry this water, it gets burned out of the tank by the engine and the water does not accumulate in the tank.
4. Phase separation. This is the real problem. The water and ethanol separate from the gasoline. When phase separation occurs, the ethanol fuel pretty much is unusable. If you try to run an engine with phase separated fuel, you are pretty much pumping water though it (water is at the bottom of the tank where the pickup is). However, phase separation does not occur on a regular basis. You need the right conditions and the fuel needs to sit for a long time while vented to the atmosphere (to absorb water). IME, using the fuel in 6-9 months you should not experience phase separation.

I run my boat with fuel I get at an auto gas station on the way to the ramp. It may get E0 fuel if I get fuel from a fuel dock, but I don't go out of my way for E0 fuel. My boat sits over the winter with whatever fuel is left in the tanks with the appropriate amount of Stabil. It still runs fine in the spring on the previous season's remaining gas.
Click to expand...
 
P.S. I did experience phase separation once in a lawn mower (4-stroke) that sat for a long time. When I went to start the mower, it would not. After messing with it for awhile I disconnected the fuel line to the carb and sampled what came out. It was pretty much water. I drained the tank and the carb bowl and refilled the mower with fresh gas. Mower started up and ran fine after that.
 
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