USS John S McCain

Thanks for posting Steve, This does not look good--ship out of same base as the Fitzgerald, and the 4th incident this year! She had sailed by some of the disputed "Chinese" Islands for at least the 4th time this year..makes one wonder???

It will certainly be interesting to see what develops.
 
Bob, I've seen wild speculation that GPS and other nav signals have been hacked. Personally, I doubt that, but it's within the realm of possibility.

I am not sure what the extend of injuries are. Hopefully, no one dead and nothing serious.

Edit: Not good news. I just saw that several networks are reporting 10 missing sailers, 5 injured.
 
Even though civilian GPS can be spoofed--and I have been in proximity of war ships where my GPS did not work in the past--not recently. The military uses a higher grade of signals, and I suspect that all of their navigation technology is redundant. Even our latest GPS has GLONASS (which of course can also be spoofed)--but Navy will be most likely using inertial, was well as visual, radar, and perhaps some we don't even know about.

The Fitzgerals/Crystal collision is certainly preventable by visual sites--yes, I have heard all of the talking heads say how sailors can be confused. But the skipper should have been called to the bridge--he was not.

We don't know much on this one--I did find the track of the Liberian flagged oil tanker--but no clues there. I was under the impression that all ships going into Singapore had to have AIS functioning--if the John was headed into Singapore--but we don't know the exact place of the collision. The track of the tanker was fairly well away from the major congestion--and this is probably the most congested sea lane in the World.

Lets hope that there are no fatalities--but 10 missing does not sound good!
 
I have to wonder if this is a case of a trend with two collisions so close together, regardless of the cause, or is this a case of its on the news? How many such collisions in the past? How often? I have no idea and thats kind of the point . If a tree falls in the woods and does not hit a reporter in the head did it really happen? What is it a conspiracy by beavers? What it a public service if it does hit him? Does anyone care ? Had it not been for the media would anyone have noticed y2k, which did nothing they promised?
 
Good thought Tom. The Navy keeps records of those type of things. Published is the "record" from 1945 to 1988. The number of collisions of any type with a Naval vessel ranges from 1 [1948] to 19 [1983] per year. (There are many more "incidents"--such as grounding, air craft crash etc). Much of this was during the Cold war--and incidents involved Soviet ships.

I didn't find any newer stats. The New York times may have a more comprehensive list--but i "Have exceeded my monthly free viewing".

It seems to me that 3 in 8 months in a relatively small part of the oceans is high. I am sure that the Navy is looking at every possible method of hacking their systems at this point.

The problem is that none of us know the whole truth of what happened. Presumably the board of inquiry will find the "truth" There may be technology which is classified.
 
I had posted on FB a link to an article on this, and one of my old classmate buddies posted this reply, that others here might find interesting:

I was onboard the USS MIdway when it was involved in a collision in that same area. We lost 2 sailors and a couple of aircraft off the flightdeck. We came very close to losing the ship as the impact was very close to the Liquid Oxygen plant onboard. As the JAG Officer on the Carrier Group Commander's staff, I was now a counsel in my very first maritime incident and was tasked with interviewing the Captain and Exec both of which were ultimately removed from this duty. However, what I did learn through this process is that the Strait of Malacca is a treacherous navigational area as you near Singapore. One of the things that makes it more difficult is that it is not international waters. What that means is that you are more or less dealing with local governments as well as an assortment of ships, boats, frieghters, you name it, going through the area with inexperienced navigators, some case minimal navigational equipment, no port and starbord running lights and in a number of cases unregistered captains. It is impossible knowing what and who you are dealing with as you go through the Straits to Singapore. My thoughts and hopes are with those shipmates who are lost and their families but unlike the other collision, I'd like to hear a few more facts before I would question or lay blame on the ship's Skipper who my thoughts are also with. Bearing such a responsibility can at the best of times be difficult but when something like this results in a loss of life it can be devastating to the CO. Being relieved of command is not the worst part of this for him. I remember my interview with the Captain of the Midway who I knew and had much respect for. A former fighter pilot and highly decorated squadron commander prior to becoming Captain. The day I interviewed him for his report and accounts of the incident, he was a broken man. The irony here is that even though he was eventually found to not be at fault, his proud military career was over. His successful missions as a pilot, his successful leadership as a squadron commander and as a ship's captain were gone. He had suffered the greatest loss a military officer can, a loss of life and a los of command. All he could think of was the two sailors lost under his watch. I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone so again, let's not rush to judgment and blame here.
 
More recent articlehere, about the use of AIS. This specific collision is discussed here.

This even has a video embedded including the AIS track of the tanker. It would appear that the Navy ship was 100% at fault. They were out of the traffic lanes--I also question how that could happen!

Discussion of the "stealth" of the US warships. Apparently the offshoot is that the warships will transmit on AIS when in crowded waters.
 
There was, IIRC, a NYT article. Many 7th fleet ships are seeing people put in 100 hour work weeks, month after month. While it is macho to say it can be done, the fact is, that it cannot be done on a sustained basis. Cognition, muscles, nerves all suffer. And while any given accident cannot be blamed on overwork, hours like that set people up to fail.
 
I came upon a "new" report on the Destroyer John McCain accident today in G Captain. It is extremely interesting, in that it shows the failure of modern technology. Maybe we have gone too far in automation. I had just been reading another article on the Boeing 737 Max. Several friends have commented that maybe things were better 40 or 50 years ago! That was addressing the whole of society.

This Article suggests that the whole error (and by inference other collisions) were the fault of the software in the digital systems which controlled the ship speed and course.

It is certainly something to think about. One of my friends who has been involved in air craft design all of his life suggested that early engineers were also pilots and understood flight. Today--that may not be true. I believe that same applies to the vessel function and navigation systems.

A few years back Jeff Siegel (Active Captain) took several of the Garmin engineers aboard his boat for a coastal trip, since they had no experience on a vessel other than a row boat.
 
Look at Boeing's space capsule/rocket. Off course and epic fail. Yet in 1969 we put two men on the moon and returned them safely to Earth. Seems dedicated, smart PEOPLE can succeed where software fails.
 
I read that article. It is pretty damning to the Defense Department. As others have mentioned this has implication for aviation automation (and autonomous cars to boot)
 
I came upon a "new" report on the Destroyer John McCain accident today in G Captain. It is extremely interesting, in that it shows the failure of modern technology. Maybe we have gone too far in automation. I had just been reading another article on the Boeing 737 Max. Several friends have commented that maybe things were better 40 or 50 years ago! That was addressing the whole of society.
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I would tend to agree Bob. By the time I left the airlines, everything was pretty automated. To the point of, they didn't even like us hand flying anymore. Roll down the runway, lift off, and engage George. (Autopilot). Use it until the last 1000 feet in altitude landing, or better yet, just let it land and roll out, and then take it back to turn off the runway. The problem with that is, too many pilots forget how to fly the jet smoothly. Or fall behind the curve when crap hits the fan trying to figure out "what's it doing now". Or fail to notice when it starts to go off altitude or track. I flew the C130 in the USCG (great airplane), and then started on the B727 with AAL, finishing up on the B757 and B767. Only aircraft I flew in the airlines, and all great aircraft. Boeing screwed the pooch going to more automation as far as I'm concerned. Of course, more and more truth to the old joke of just having a Captain and a dog. The dog being there to bite the captain if he/she touches anything, and he/she's only there to feed the dog. Automation can be great. But not if it replaces common sense and human capability/experience. Colby
 
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