USS John S McCain

[hardee]

Look at Boeing's space capsule/rocket. Off course and epic fail. Yet in 1969 we put two men on the moon and returned them safely to Earth. Seems dedicated, smart PEOPLE can succeed where software fails.

I did hear something on the news about "...if this had been a manned flight, they would have been able to course correct and fly it through to complete the designated mission."


Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

So. after reading that, sounds like the sailors were (yes) under-trained and that the automatic functions were not very reliable. What are the chances those sailors that were disciplined will be exonerated? Or that those who put an unreliable system into service will bare the brunt?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[RobLL]

Oddly this is connected with ongoing controversy throughout the transportation industry. I follow several. The Boeing cluster Yuk with the 737MAX, autonomous driving, and one man train crews.

Beings old I bought a 2019 RAV4 a year ago, cheapest model with all of the safety features, while it is even better than I expected it is difficult to understand just what the car is doing and why. Far too many buttons and lights. They are poorly placed. Nothing is integrated. It steers itself, it brakes, avoids pedestrians, and bicylers, tells me when something is going to hit me when backing out of a parking spot, handles the hi beam, and follows the car in front of me at chosen distance. BUT, only some times. Son's Tesla does all the same, but far better integrated. Haha - maybe I will switch to the pickup.

ps - The RAV does it well enough that I am really happy having got it. I and the world are safer driving with its assistance, and it makes driving easier.

 

[thataway]

We drove cross country in Maries Lincoln MKX, with all of those features. It made long distance driving much easier--but I can see where some could get lulled by the features and be distracted by texting, phone, etc--very dangerous.

We liked that the adaptive cruise control would set the distance from the car ahead, and when I put on the turn signal to pass, if there was on car in adjacent lane already begin to accelerate. An advance? Yes, but......

As for exoneration--very unlikely. The damage has been one, careers have been ruined--tough at all levels. So where does the "blame" really lie? The skipper was aware of the deficiencies of the system, although he did not fully understand the nuances of how it functioned. He was ultimately responsible for manning the watch to have enough trained crew members.

 

[cmetzenberg]

there is a law of requisite variety in cybernetics that basically states that a system or person can not be less complex than the system or person it operates. One will be limited by whichever is least complex. I have made a bit of a jump and applied this concept to High reliability organizations and bridge team management. A bridge system can't be more complex than the user or you'll have a failure. The answer is two part; simplify the system and increase the complexity of the user. The Navy has failed on both counts to do either of these.
It really bugs me to see systematic failures be blamed on individuals, to see them scapegoated to protect a broken system. It's not right. It happens to nurses, pilots, doctors, etc. To see that broken blame game applied to our men and women in uniform is f'n sickening to me.

 

[hardee]

"It really bugs me to see systematic failures be blamed on individuals, to see them scapegoated to protect a broken system. It's not right. It happens to nurses, pilots, doctors, etc. To see that broken blame game applied to our men and women in uniform is ... sickening to me."
_________________
Conrad Metzenberg

:thup :thup

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

I travel a lot for work, so I drive a lot of rental cars. Personally I find all the new stuff more annoying than anything. The only thing useful IMO is forward collision warning that can actually apply the brakes (not all of them do).

Lane keeping assist is just plane annoying.

But then again, I much prefer that my car also have a manual transmission (the newer auto transmissions that let you "shift manually" do not count).

 

[RobLL]

I travel a lot for work, so I drive a lot of rental cars. Personally I find all the new stuff more annoying than anything. The only thing useful IMO is forward collision warning that can actually apply the brakes (not all of them do).

Lane keeping assist is just plane annoying.

But then again, I much prefer that my car also have a manual transmission (the newer auto transmissions that let you "shift manually" do not count).

LOL, I'm old enough to remember one guy in the neighborhood breaking his arm cranking the engine. And the spark timer/carberation mixture on the steering column of my mom's first car a used model A - she hate it*. No thanks!

*course if I had room I'd love to have it for occasional spins.