Venture 26 / 25 Cruiser kicker for hull speed +

S

serpa4

New member
Good day.
What size kicker would be needed to do hull speed in a 26? Hull speed is roughly 7 to 7.7 mph calculated based on LWL of 22-23ft (guessing).
I saw a youtube video with a 22 Century Walk around (4,000 lbs) and a 9.9 merc on the back. It did about 5.5 mph.
The C-Dory is heavier, say 5,000lb fully kitted and fueled for fun week. I'd guess a 9.9 would be about 4.5 mph.

Anyone have a 10hp kicker or higher and want to share speeds you obtain with a 25/26?

If you do 9.9hp, might as well do 20hp. They are the same engines.
Tohatsu 9.9, 15, 20 are all 94.7 lbs.
Suzuki (my 1st choice) 9.9, 15, 20 are 97 lbs.

How bad would it be to hang an extra 100lb off the back of the transom?
The boat has a lithim house at about 23lbs which saves maybe 50 lbs off the back already.
 
alainP":1s0c52cb said:
Tohatsu 9.8 4 stroke is 81 lbs
Click to expand...

yes I just saw that today when I was doing more research. I'm getting caught in that more is better mind of thinking. For 14 more pounds you could have up to 20 horsepower. However hull speed is the fastest I'll ever have a kicker push me, and even 50 horse will not get me past hull speed so why do 20 when 9.8 will work. Trying to do some research and digging to find out if a 9.8 will be good enough. If not then I might as well go all in for the 20 horsepower.
I've heard Cdory's have a problem getting the nose down sometimes hence the outdrive fins and trim tabs to get the nose down. So perhaps throwing all that weight on the rear transom is not going to help that situation. So 9.8 might be the way to go.
 
The C-Dory is heavier, say 5,000lb fully kitted and fueled for fun week. I'd guess a 9.9 would be about 4.5 mph.
Click to expand...

That's 5000 lb average on a trailer. (My 22, fully loaded with fuel and water and stores, weighed 5100 lbs.) Remove the trailer, and you are probably looking at closer to 3600 lbs. (My twin axle aluminum trailer for my 25 weighed 1,640 lbs. The 22 trailer being a bit smaller, probably comes in around 1400 lbs or so.)

I had a Tohatsu 6.0 on my 22, and it would push it right close to 5mph, even in 1-2' chop. (head or side winds). I have a 9.9 on my 25, and it pushes it about the same speed. Colby
 
colbysmith":27tub2sn said:
The C-Dory is heavier, say 5,000lb fully kitted and fueled for fun week. I'd guess a 9.9 would be about 4.5 mph.
Click to expand...

That's 5000 lb average on a trailer. (My 22, fully loaded with fuel and water and stores, weighed 5100 lbs.) Remove the trailer, and you are probably looking at closer to 3600 lbs. (My twin axle aluminum trailer for my 25 weighed 1,640 lbs. The 22 trailer being a bit smaller, probably comes in around 1400 lbs or so.)

I had a Tohatsu 6.0 on my 22, and it would push it right close to 5mph, even in 1-2' chop. (head or side winds). I have a 9.9 on my 25, and it pushes it about the same speed. Colby
Click to expand...

So, at say 4.5 - 5 mph, do you wish you had a little more? Or are you happy with 9.9. If someone said he budy, I have a 15hp and will trade it for your 9.9 would you?
 
Nope. I’m perfectly happy with the Yamaha 9.9 high thrust. It’s pushing the boat at pretty much its hull speed, or at least just beginning to put out more wake. At 7mph you’re starting to plow some water; you can see with a bigger wake. Just reread your initial post and see you were referencing weight on a 26, not a 22. That 5000 lbs is probably a little low. My 25 on the trailer fully loaded weighs 8100. The trailer at 1640 would put the boat closer to 6500. That 100 g gas tank full adds almost 1000 lbs! I do see some 25s with a 15 kicker. Guess it would be interesting to see if they push any faster. But does it also weigh more? If it was the same weight and didn’t drink anymore fuel, then maybe I’d consider it.
 
I have a 26 foot Cape Cruiser with a Honda 15 hp kicker. It does 7.5 mph with the kicker. I didn't realize that was hull speed but it makes sense now as raising the throttle from 3/4 to full doesn't affect the speed hardly at all.
 
We got our kicker from EQ Marine shortly after we purchased our CD25 in 2005. We debated the 9.9 v 15 hp and ultimately made the wrong decision! Hull speed is hull speed. Oh well!

In all the years since 2005, i think we have needed the kicker two times. Boat US towing insurance would have been cheaper.


 
We got our kicker from EQ Marine shortly after we purchased our CD25 in 2005. We debated the 9.9 v 15 hp and ultimately made the wrong decision! Hull speed is hull speed. Oh well!
Click to expand...

So which one did you go with and why was it the wrong decision?
 
Technically, hull speed is the speed where the wavelength of the bow wave is the same as the waterline length of the hull. This only really applies to displacement hull boats. Same as the equation commonly used.

Hull speed on a planing or semi-displacement hull is usually considered when the bow starts to rise as speed increases. Once the bow starts up, you are exceeding "hull speed". The hull speed is also the speed through the water, not the SOG.

IME, my 22 has a hull speed of about 4 MPH. If you assume that the WL length of a 22 cruiser is 18 ft (just a guess), the math says the hull speed is 6.5 MPH (5.7 KNTS).

Just my $.02.
 
Guyz. Buy the smallest kicker engine to make your planing hulled boat go
displacement speed for what? Intentional prolonged slow speed cruising;
fishing, sightseeing, a sunset booze cruise, offshore carnal activity? Always
go displacement speed in a planing hulled boat? You have the wrong boat.

Well, maybe the smallest kicker will suffice. What about safety? Ever helm a
grossly underpowered boat in building wind and head seas? Think about it.
May wish that Tohatsu 9.9 was the 15 or 20 (same weights, different prices) if
your main engine quits and your kicker has to step up to the job of getting you
home.

If I want to gamble, I go to the casino.

Aye.
 
One other thought about kickers is the size of the alternator. If you use your kicker for trolling in foggy conditions and have to use radar so you don't get ran over, plus have your nav lights on, sounder on and a refrigerator on board, it's good to have a alternator with a higher output. That was the reason I chose Honda over Yamaha when I set my boat up. Honda at the time had bigger alternators. I don't know about it now though.
 
My thoughts on a kicker. My boat a 22' crusier is powered by a Honda 90 and I have a Honda 9,9 kicker (Grezky Jr.). Both of these motors were with the boat when I bought it. I will use the kicker for trawling sometimes, but for me the main purpose is as a "Get Me Home" motor. Twice I have had to rely on it when I encountered problems with the 90. The first time was at Lake Powell. A sensor alarm went off on the 90 and I had to rely on "Gretzky' to get us home to Bull Frog from the mouth of the San Juan River. We delayed this journey by a day due to high wind warnings and when we did head home the wind did pick up in the afternoon and I would have liked to have had more power, but we did make it back in one 11 hour push. Last summer I was boating on Shuswap Lake in BC and the pee line disappeared on the 90, To check it out and repair it would be easier on the trailer and I didn't want to risk ruining the engine, so we fired up Gretzky again and cruised the length of the lake with it. I like to boat in remote locations where C-Tow may not service the area and in an emergency I can get myself out of trouble. So I need a reliable second motor to get me home or at least out of trouble. My feeling is that you need to have enough power to do this in rougher water and wind. Ideally twin engines would be safer for this, but that is not how my boat is equipped. I could probably get by trawling with something like a 6 hp motor if I just want to trawl around a calm lake. But in the north Pacific more power is just safer. I make a habit to exercise Gretzky for a few hours every couple of days, just to keep him fit.
 
Stuff happens. If it hasn't happened to you yet, just wait. It's the Nature of life.

As far as "needing" a kicker, or having that "twin" engine for safety (and/or peace
of mind), there are some caveats.

First consider what Sea Tow posted about the most common reasons they are called:

5 Reasons Boaters Call Sea Tow
*Engine or equipment breakdown. “The biggest reason why we tow people is because of mechanical failure,” says Capt. ...
*Fuel-related issues. “We always suggest a pre-season, spring inspection and maintenance on the fuel system. ...
*Out of gas. ...
*Dead battery. ...
*Ran aground.
Click to expand...

Now merge your "extra engine" thoughts into the above.
*One of two engines may get you home if only one breaks down unless....
*Bad fuel is in all your tanks, say filled up at your last destination, or
*Running out of fuel, won't help you at all (fuel issues are common, 40% here)
*Aground, you'll go nowhere no matter how many engines you have

So, it all seems a calculated risk even when you have been diligent in your
preparations - unless you are unaware of The Law of Unintended Consequences
(Google it) or Murphy's Laws, in which case both laws make things even worse.

Murphy's Laws
•If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong
•If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong
•If anything just cannot go wrong, it will anyway
•If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which something can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop
•Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse
•If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something
•Nature always sides with the hidden flaw
•Mother Nature is a bitch
Click to expand...

Happy New Year and happy boating. Be sure to plan thoroughly before venturing
"out there".

Aye.
 
Stuff happens. If it hasn't happened to you yet, just wait. It's the Nature of life.
Click to expand...

I have been traipsing around wilderness areas for for more than 50 years and earned my "Chief Scout" award as a Boy Scout. One thing that I have learned as a Scout was to 'BE PREPARED". This advice has saved my bacon a few times and I have saved other peoples bacon a few times as well.

There is no way to carry all of the emergency gear that you might need for every scenario, especially in a small boat like a C-Dory, but the trick is to carry enough to get you out of danger most of the time. Shit Happens and having some of the tools to save your life and the skills to use those tools is critical. I always carry a spare paddle when I am kayaking or canoeing and only once in 50 years of paddling have I ever needed the spare, but boy did I need it then. The same goes for a kicker or twin engine. If you boat in busy areas with lots of traffic, nearby C-Tow services, coast guard and other boaters, then the spare motor may not be necessary. But, when you get into remote areas it sure is nice to have and adds to that feeling of security. Yes, it will not cover all of the dangers mentioned like running out of fuel, that is more of a common sense problem. But, at least you have covered some of your bases. When we decide to go into areas like the wilderness, be it in a boat, on foot, skis or whatever the means there are risks involved. Hopefully we have taken the time to make the preparations and learned the skills to deal with some of the emergencies that can and do happen. Almost every week I am outdoors doing some activity and all to often I run into someone that is trying to win the "Darwin Award". The unfortunate reality is that your misfortune means that someone else usually has to clean up the mess. I would rather ensure that I can handle most of the emergencies myself first and then if necessary have the tools like a VHF, Satellite communication device or other means to bring in the experts. Living on a remote ranch in the Alberta foothills has taught me to deal with problems myself most of the time and only when necessary to bring in the experts.
 
colbysmith":3uj97n7s said:
We got our kicker from EQ Marine shortly after we purchased our CD25 in 2005. We debated the 9.9 v 15 hp and ultimately made the wrong decision! Hull speed is hull speed. Oh well!
Click to expand...

So which one did you go with and why was it the wrong decision?
Click to expand...

We went with the 15 hp. A 9.9 would have achieved the same hull speed. Not tragic of course. And I think a kicker, whether 9.9 or 15, is a good idea, even with the reliability of modern 4 stroke mains. A damaged prop on the main, for example. That actually happened to us, and we were glad we had the kicker!
 
Actually glad to hear you feel the 9.9 would reach the same hull speed as the 15. I'm pretty sure mine does. At about 75% throttle. I'm amazed at just how much power these little motors and props can produce. I have used the 9.9 on the 25 in some windy environments while trolling, and other than requiring more input on the controls than the main, it suffices. (At trolling speeds, it requires a lot more steering input to keep the bow on target. But pushing the throttle up and gaining a little more speed, pretty easy to regain control. At that point, I say screw it and pull lines! If it's too rough to maintain heading with the kicker while trolling, it's too rough to troll, period!) Colby
 
Colby, is your kicker connected to your 150? Are using your autopilot when you troll?
Click to expand...

Hi Alain. I have the cockpit helm and throttle station. That helm is hooked into the main hydraulic steering system. The kicker has steering linkage hooked up at the main thru a separate steering cable. I can steer from either station and that controls the main and the kicker thru the cable. The cockpit throttle controls the kicker while the cabin throttle controls the main. I can use the autopilot trolling if I want, but up until I recently purchased a remote control for the autopilot, I just had control of the autopilot in the cabin. I do have a Garmin Gpsmap 541 at the cockpit station, but don’t know how to manually control the AP from it. That plotter is hooked into my network with the other plotter and autopilot. So I can run the AP from the 541 in regards to routes engaged on the 541.
 
Back
Top