Webasto / Espar knockoffs

thataway":1gev0hm5 said:
The reliability of cars has been demonstrated to be inversely proportional to their list price.
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Yugo

...
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Ok, there are some exceptions.

I had experience with Mercedes. One day the transmission would not shift out of first. A chip failed in the transmission computer. But only a Mercedes tech could diagnose the problem and it took several days to get the replacement part. $1500 about 10 years ago. FWIW, this Mercedes had no user serviceable components in the transmission. You could not even check the fluid quantity.
 
on the Chinese on you can simply replace the defect part for maybe a buck or two and carry on. The Webasco control module probably costs at least a $100.
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You are assuming one could even GET the part. A part also made in China. Good luck with that.

Given that the Chinese are world leaders in some types of technology, building a reliable and robust heater should be no big deal for them.
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The Chinese rarely “lead” in anything technical. They copy, steal and reproduce inferior items, often labeling them fraudulently as the real McCoy.
 
Do any of you remember back in the '50s when the words, "Made in Japan" were a joke, synonymous with cheaply made junk? When, for example, if you couldn't afford an American-made baseball, you could buy a Japanese thing-that-looked-like-a-hardball for a quarter? And how the first solid contact with a Louisville Slugger bat would literally knock the stuffing out of it?

Times sure have changed. Japanese products got better and better over the years, to the point where they are frequently more reliable (I loved my old Toyota Tercel and only retired it after I could see pavement through the floorboards) than the American and European competition.

Chinese-manufactured products are undoubtedly on the same path. The Apple products I own (iPhone, iPad and MacBook) are reliable examples of superior manufacturing quality control. My MacBook Pro is ten years old and still running strong.

Still, whenever I consider buying something made in that totalitarian country, I have to ignore my conscience. Chances are my shiny new toy will have been built in something resembling a slave labor camp.
 
The heater arrived. It's been an interesting journey. 1) the Chinese gave me the wrong tracking number. That package went to someone in Indiana. 2) I filed a dispute 3) the seller got back to me with the correct tracking number, which showed the package had been at our post office for two weeks. 4) I got a message from the seller that I should get right down there or the USPS would send it back to China. 5) The next correspondence from them was to wait another ten days. (??? a little contradiction there). I had no post office notification of a package waiting, but went down this morning and to my surprise the heater was there.

I did a quick unbox and everything seems in order. It comes with a 30 page manual (typical poor translation into English, but I expected that).

Page 29 is a copy of the CE certification. I talked to my son-in-law about that (He's European) and he said it can't be sold in Europe without that, and added that CE is a tough safety standard. That makes me feel better about the product. That, and the fact I haven't seen any safety complaints in reviews. That is for my comfort. Draw your own conclusions.

The actual unit seems only slightly different dimensions than the Espar I put on the boat. It measures 13.5" x 4.5" x 4.5", not including the combustion and exhaust air portals, which add another 1.25".

The sticker states this one is what I ordered, 1KW - 2KW. That should be about the output of my Espar. The ducts are similar in diameter to the Espar also.

This unit also comes with a number of things the Espar didn't have. 1) a 10 liter fuel tank. 2) electronic control panel, which issues fault codes for troubleshooting. 3) remote control. 4). an exhaust muffler. 5) an intake filter for combustion air.

So far I'm pleased. ASAP I'll set it up on the bench and give it at test, and let you know how that went.
 
I watched the you tube videos of those Chinese heaters and compared to my wallas 1300 they are extremely loud. That would be a problem for me. Sitting next to an operating 1300 you can barely hear it.
 
AKMel":ft4wiu4w said:
The heater arrived. It's been an interesting journey. 1) the Chinese gave me the wrong tracking number. That package went to someone in Indiana. 2) I filed a dispute 3) the seller got back to me with the correct tracking number, which showed the package had been at our post office for two weeks. 4) I got a message from the seller that I should get right down there or the USPS would send it back to China. 5) The next correspondence from them was to wait another ten days. (??? a little contradiction there). I had no post office notification of a package waiting, but went down this morning and to my surprise the heater was there.

I did a quick unbox and everything seems in order. It comes with a 30 page manual (typical poor translation into English, but I expected that).

Page 29 is a copy of the CE certification. I talked to my son-in-law about that (He's European) and he said it can't be sold in Europe without that, and added that CE is a tough safety standard. That makes me feel better about the product. That, and the fact I haven't seen any safety complaints in reviews. That is for my comfort. Draw your own conclusions.

The actual unit seems only slightly different dimensions than the Espar I put on the boat. It measures 13.5" x 4.5" x 4.5", not including the combustion and exhaust air portals, which add another 1.25".

The sticker states this one is what I ordered, 1KW - 2KW. That should be about the output of my Espar. The ducts are similar in diameter to the Espar also.

This unit also comes with a number of things the Espar didn't have. 1) a 10 liter fuel tank. 2) electronic control panel, which issues fault codes for troubleshooting. 3) remote control. 4). an exhaust muffler. 5) an intake filter for combustion air.

So far I'm pleased. ASAP I'll set it up on the bench and give it at test, and let you know how that went.
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Nice to know your Post Office is of the same <quality as the Soldotna one :roll:
Good luck with your heater keep us posted.
Thanks.
 
lloyds":1dq44yws said:
I watched the you tube videos of those Chinese heaters and compared to my wallas 1300 they are extremely loud. That would be a problem for me. Sitting next to an operating 1300 you can barely hear it.
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The wallas 1300 are great, until you have it on while running, hit a wave or two & the little white hot ignitor coil breaks :cry:
Been on that ride.
Have a good one.
 
My webasto sounds like a little jet engine when it's running. But the warmth is great!!! And a little white noise when the waves aren't doing much is good also! Colby
 
The Espar on our 22 Cruiser makes some noise when igniting, and on high. I find most of the jet sound is coming from the exhaust. The little turbine apparently causes the diesel fuel to do a violent burn. Installing a muffler in-line might help. I'll see how much quieter the knockoff is with the muffler. I see a stainless muffler on ebay for $15.

I couldn't find an accurate all-inclusive price on the Wallas 1300. It "sounds" like a nice unit.

Note that I have an Espar on the 22. I started the thread looking for input by anyone who has installed a knockoff on their Dory. I could have gotten a Planar at the time for half the price, but wasn't comfortable with an unknown. I want to sleep well in some remote Alaskan cove. With time and research I am becoming comfortable with the idea of a knockoff diesel heater on the water, properly installed, and may eventually put one on our aluminum fishing boat if I like the one I just bought. If the safety is there one can't beat the price.
 
I started install of the Chinese parking heater yesterday. My observation was that the kit was quite complete. Other than the usual mount location questions, I did encounter two difficulties. 1) The pump mount is all rubber. I didn’t take a lot of care running in the mount screw, and the rubber tore at the mount hole. Part of the problem was mine. I drilled a pilot hole while holding the bracket in place and the drill bit eroded some rubber. My Espar pump mount was rubber bushing mounted in metal bracket, which is a better system 2) I mounted the muffler, and proceeded to cut the stainless exhaust tube to length. The heater end fit well, better than the Espar. (My Espar exhaust connections leaked and I had to use high temp silicone to seal them). The problem was the cut end. The muffler connection and the cut stainless tube were the same diameter. Thus the exhaust tube wouldn’t slide over the muffler. I had to cut a slot in the tube and flare it, which left a small leak. Fortunately it is outside and won’t matter.

I hope to tackle wiring next week.
 
AkMel: I hope you're taking lots of pictures to put in your gallery so others (or at least me) can see what you've done. Thanks.
 
The heater works, but I have a major problem: It does not shut off when the set temperature is reached. It slows down as it should, but does not shut off, even if the area reaches 5˚above set temp. (I haven't let it go higher but am sure it would). I have to shut the heater off manually using the control panel.

Also, I can turn the heater on even if the set temperature is below the area ambient temperature. That's like having your room at 70˚ when the thermostat is set at 65˚ and the heater comes on anyway.

I deduce it's a bad controller, or a bad mother board (in the heater itself). Hopefully the former as it's an easy fix. If the seller won't supply one they are $20 on ebay.

The company has been very good about getting back to me overnight. The difficulty is the person thinks in Mandarin.
 
It's not a rheostat. It appears to have a high tech electronic thermostat.

The controller has many other functions:
It shows on bar graphs the heat output.
Another graph notes the signal strength from the remote control if one is used.
It illuminates a little pump when the fuel pump comes on.
When the glow plug comes on to ignite the fuel another graphic symbol illuminates.
The unit measures ambient temp in the enclosed area, and heater casing temperature (suppose to shut down if overheated).
It may have a GPS, or at least measures altitude (shows me our altitude), probably to get the right fuel to air mix.
It has a clock, and two different time settings so you can set the unit to come on at set times.
The controller can regulate the hertz to the fuel pump for high or low fuel volume, or anywhere in between. (or set to automatic)
It can also control fan speed. (or set to automatic)
It measures line voltage and will shut off if the battery gets below your set voltage so you don't drain the battery.

All that is nice if the temp setting for automatic on and off works. I notified the company and they want to make sure I have everything set right. By several different comparisons I do. They also admitted.... "Yes, sometime the temperature won't shut off automatically."

After the package mixup, and this malfunction, I can't recommend the unit. I was thinking today it would be nice to have a simple controller with manual off/on and a dial or number to hold the desired temp. It's all I need. We'll see how they handle the problem further. I have a few more days before my right to file a dispute expires. I want to give them a chance to set it right before I go that route.

For a few more $ there are Chinese sellers that have product warehoused on the USA. Based on this experience that would be a better way to go IMO.
 
Latest update for those interested:
Joining a forum where you can post questions about these Chinese heaters is very educational. The instruction manual that came with it is poor English and, for me, ridiculous when it comes to helping set up the controller. I recommend a forum to anyone who purchases one. There are also a number of good Youtube videos, but I haven't found an adequate one for troubleshooting. My controller, which seems to be the latest generation, does issue 10 different error codes if it detects something wrong.

The design is apparently closer to a Webasto than an Espar. Users informed me the controller does not shut the heater off when "set" temp is reached like my Espar. It only scales back the fuel and leaves it on the lowest setting. So no matter what the "set" temp when I start the heater, the unit comes on. I've learned to live with that. Thus the unit only comes on high if the "set" temp is above the ambient temp. I'm hoping running a lot on low setting doesn't carbon up the combustion chamber prematurely. Also, the controller does not shut off (go dark). It dims, but stays on. I'm told the current draw is so low the LCD doesn't drain the battery.

I do apparently have a small malfunction in my LCD controller, but not for temp issues. They have offered to reimburse me for a new one. We'll see how that goes. It's only $20 and I have one on order.

The LCD controller is hard to use at times, with multiple combinations of buttons and a many advanced settings capabilities. One can set several combustion parameters. That's a nice feature, but I haven't tried it yet. One pretty much needs a gasses analyzer to do that right.

My sellers customer service is via text, and again I experienced very poor English. They had trouble understanding my descriptions of problems. Consequently they would point me in the wrong direction repeatedly. I am of the opinion that a foreign company that wants to do business with an English speaking country should elevate their English proficiency.

I'm more satisfied than I was in my previous post. The heater does what it is suppose to. I'll make this my last post unless there are questions. Sorry, no photo album so no pix.
 
I'm glad that the contributor has come to a positive conclusion, the price point is amazing and it supplies heat ( sounds like more than enough heat ). The situation is a double edged sword, not like your home where your power is hooked to the power grid.
During start up, the glow plug uses significant amperage.
If your power source is unlimited, turn ON and OFF all you want.
But the manufacturer recognizes that 12 volt systems typically are a defined amount of energy. So they have designed a system that keeps the heater running on a low setting, avoiding the start-up high energy situation.
Being able to sit in a cozy warm boat cabin is pretty nice.
PS. My Webasto hydronic system works the same way, it cost me $ 695 out of some Canadian outlet. Significantly less than any local source.
 
The glow plug draw during on and off cycling is the only thing that bothers me. On a CD 16, my little Espar can heat the cabin from below freezing to temperate in 15 minutes. It draws a lot during the first several minutes while running the glow plug. Then it drops even when the fan is running full blast. Then the fan slows down to a whisper for 15 to 20 minutes with barely any draw. Then, because even blowing at idle it heats the cabin more than necessary, it shuts off. 20 minutes later it turns on again, with the large draw on the glow plug.

Having the glow plug draw more than once an hour would be a concern at anchorage except for a couple of things. I don't run it overnight even though I have checked the exhaust (and muffler) for possible leaks and have a gas detector on board. I rationalize that by admitting to myself that heat on a 16 foot "cabin cruiser" is a decadent luxury, not a necessity. I can live with my nose getting cold while I sleep ("live" being the operative word). It's more important to me that I wake up in the morning.

Likewise, I'm not troubled by the fluctuation in temperature caused by the cycling when running the motor and the draw of the glow plug isn't an issue. I sometimes have to lean over and adjust the thermostat when underway. What a huge inconvenience (not). I'm warm and dry (or getting warm and dry). If cycling is a problem, I can open a window to keep the heater running, as using a few drops of kerosene might at times be better than repeatedly drawing on the battery for the glow plug.

I tend to look at the heat issue as I do with hot water. Some complain that they run out of hot water. My response is "What, you have hot water?"

Mark
 
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