Weight Difference between Honda and Yamaha Outboards
- Thread starter Rain
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The Yamaha is a newer design with associated benefits but the primary reason relates to displacement. The Yamaha is over 20% smaller than the Honda. That physically relates to less weight but also generally means:
Yamaha- working a little harder to make its rated power
Honda-working a little less to make its rated power
Those are just generalizations of course and I think most boat owners on this forum are more concerned with weight than surplus power.
Greg
Yamaha- working a little harder to make its rated power
Honda-working a little less to make its rated power
Those are just generalizations of course and I think most boat owners on this forum are more concerned with weight than surplus power.
Greg
I'd say about the same thing as Aurelia. The Honda is the smallest engine on a big 'ol block. Lots of displacement. The Yamaha is also the smallest engine in its "range," but newly designed and with a big consideration placed on making it light weight.
Outboard mfgrs typically use the same block for a range of engines. As a further example of this, the Yamaha 70 hp is the largest engine on a smaller block range (and has the light weight to prove it), and it has around half the displacement of their 75 hp, which is the smallest engine on the next size block.
I've run on a couple of boats with the Honda 115 and I think it's a super engine; but there's no way I'm putting that much weight on my 22. Hence if I re-powered today it would be the Yamaha 115. OTOH, if Yamaha were to come out with a new 90 proportionally as light (right now it's barely any lighter than the new 115) I'd go with that (my dream 300# 90 hp Yamaha
).
Outboard mfgrs typically use the same block for a range of engines. As a further example of this, the Yamaha 70 hp is the largest engine on a smaller block range (and has the light weight to prove it), and it has around half the displacement of their 75 hp, which is the smallest engine on the next size block.
I've run on a couple of boats with the Honda 115 and I think it's a super engine; but there's no way I'm putting that much weight on my 22. Hence if I re-powered today it would be the Yamaha 115. OTOH, if Yamaha were to come out with a new 90 proportionally as light (right now it's barely any lighter than the new 115) I'd go with that (my dream 300# 90 hp Yamaha
).I appreciate the responses. I figured using the same block for several power outputs had something to do with it, but the difference seemed out of proportion. I suppose it's like the old Chevy big and small blocks! My age is showing! I hadn't considered the newer technology factor, but that makes sense.
You seem to have surmised the reason for my question! I was fortunate to get a ride (my first) on a C-Dory 22' last evening, and the owner said that while he really liked the Honda 90, if he were re-powering, he would go to the Honda 115. That got me researching, first considering the Honda 100, but it weighs 359 lbs., only 18 lbs. less than the Yamaha 115. Why not go up to the Yamaha?
You seem to have surmised the reason for my question! I was fortunate to get a ride (my first) on a C-Dory 22' last evening, and the owner said that while he really liked the Honda 90, if he were re-powering, he would go to the Honda 115. That got me researching, first considering the Honda 100, but it weighs 359 lbs., only 18 lbs. less than the Yamaha 115. Why not go up to the Yamaha?
I have several of both motor in my work fleet, and a Honda on my boat.
Most of my Yamahas are being repowered with Hondas as they expire.
The reason for this has little to do with the outboards, although there are considerations, largely around power to weight as it is in this discussion. It has much more to do with available service. I only have a honda dealer nearby. In other parts of the state where we work I leave boats and if they are within a reasonable proximity to a yamaha dealer, yamaha is the motor, if it's evinrude, then its evinrude. These considerations can weigh heavily in many parts of the world, and a few parts of this country.
I have two boats with Mercury Sport Jets and we need to have them serviced in Fairbanks, which is a long trip. These boats are highly specialized (and the motors selected because of their impressive power to weight ratio) and they are the only ones we have that we have compromised on proximity to a dealer. However, these are river boats, and they run far enough north to be close to Fairbanks for a lot of the summer, so we are often able to get them to the dealer without too much trouble. It's the unexpected breakdowns near the coast that are the trouble.
However we do pay close attention to the block, and all things being equal, will generally use a larger block if we can, for a given horsepower. In the above example, we would always choose the yamaha 75hp over the 70hp, the extra 5hp being irrelevant. We work our engines harder than any rec user. The advantage is a good one for us, but maybe not for all, and it does cost a little weight.
Most of my Yamahas are being repowered with Hondas as they expire.
The reason for this has little to do with the outboards, although there are considerations, largely around power to weight as it is in this discussion. It has much more to do with available service. I only have a honda dealer nearby. In other parts of the state where we work I leave boats and if they are within a reasonable proximity to a yamaha dealer, yamaha is the motor, if it's evinrude, then its evinrude. These considerations can weigh heavily in many parts of the world, and a few parts of this country.
I have two boats with Mercury Sport Jets and we need to have them serviced in Fairbanks, which is a long trip. These boats are highly specialized (and the motors selected because of their impressive power to weight ratio) and they are the only ones we have that we have compromised on proximity to a dealer. However, these are river boats, and they run far enough north to be close to Fairbanks for a lot of the summer, so we are often able to get them to the dealer without too much trouble. It's the unexpected breakdowns near the coast that are the trouble.
However we do pay close attention to the block, and all things being equal, will generally use a larger block if we can, for a given horsepower. In the above example, we would always choose the yamaha 75hp over the 70hp, the extra 5hp being irrelevant. We work our engines harder than any rec user. The advantage is a good one for us, but maybe not for all, and it does cost a little weight.
Rain":v2jj1vsj said:
I figured that might be what you were getting at.
I think the Honda 115 is fantastic -- and I've always been partial to big engines just loafing along -- but I can't see putting a single 478# engine on my 22. It was designed to have a ~250# engine on the back. Not that it's going to break the boat, but it just would make it so much (more) stern heavy. You could reason, "But I'll run a pampered single, so I'll be saving the 80# of a kicker!" But then by that same token, if you are going to run a pampered single, you could save even more weight by running a lighter pampered single, so that logic sort of goes out the window.
Service is a good point. The places I tend to boat seem to slightly favor Yamaha, but everyone's boating places are different, and a favorite local dealer/service person could swing me another way if I had one.
Another consideration is alternator output, if you are counting on that for any charging. That spec varies from engine to engine.
For me right now the Yamaha 115 would hit the sweet spot, but I wouldn't mind fewer horsepower for a good weight savings (which might come if the Yamaha 90 is re-designed, as now it's kind of a "heavy duck" in relation to the new 115, and it hasn't been re-designed (whereas the 70 and 115 are newer).
Lots of good engines out there these days. It's like a candy store!
My Yamaha 80 is still going strong (as it should be with fewer than 200 hours on it), but I'm not immune to something new....
Rain, Another consideration you might think about: Living where you do, if you are considering boating up into Canada, you will find it much easier to get a Yamaha serviced or repaired, than if you are running a Honda. Has to do with Honda International and their warranty service setup. It has been tough for a US purchased Honda OB owner to get service and repair or parts accessed when north of the border.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Rain":671qntdm said:
It would be interesting to learn how many C-BRATS actually were able to buy the first boat they called on. I know I didn't get to either.
I have several friends who I have helped steer towards C-Dory and one of them came close, I think it was #2 that happened, but it is really hard to believe how fast they go after they hit the list.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
I love Honda's and I'm a Honda guy generally. That said, there's NO WAY one should consider putting the current Honda 115 on a C-Dory 22. It's way too heavy. The motor is a gem, but the same weight as their 135/150. I would look for 90, or even 115 HP in the lightest form available if re-powering that boat. As mentioned earlier, the CD 22 was designed around the Johnson 70 2-stroke, and becomes cumbersome with too much stern weight. Cheers, Mike.
though the first boats (prior to 1987) were designed for the lighter motors, the newer boats (only 30 years), perform very well with the weight aft. Two of the Honda 40 or 50 are 418 lbs. We run with a lot of weight aft--including a full 95 qt cooler, freezer, gear of 100 lbs, three 70 lb batteries, generator. The boat handles well with this load.
Designed motor HP and weight of a boat take a number of items into consideration. It is not just the hull design.
We have to remember that new members looking for information, don't have all of the background information.
Designed motor HP and weight of a boat take a number of items into consideration. It is not just the hull design.
We have to remember that new members looking for information, don't have all of the background information.
Does anyone know anything about the Honda 100, VTEC? I haven't found any reviews on line yet. It only weighs 366 lbs, slightly less than the Yamaha 90. Seems like it might be a great option for a C-Dory 22'. I am thinking about buying new. Anyone have a money tree or a golden goose I can use for a while? 
I personally don't understand all the concern about 50 pounds of weight between some motors hanging on the transom. That is 8 gallons of gas equivalent weight. I can't tell any difference in performance or handling between a full tank or after burning 50 gallons let alone six gallons. I just don't think it is that big an issue. Hang the motor you want on the back as long as the boat is rated for it.
Forrest: are you talking about a 22' C-Dory, or the 26' boat listed on your profile? I've owned and operated 2 different CD 22's: one with a single 70 Johnson, and one with twin Honda 40's. The lighter 70 made for a fantastic, nimble ride. The second, though I loved the operation of the engines, was stern-heavy and noticeably less nimble. (This was mitigated somewhat by adding Permatrims). A Honda 115 is considerably heavier than were my twin 50's. Add a 4-stroke kicker and you'd be pushing 600#. Have you seen a Honda 115/135/150 lately? It's a huge engine, disproportionate to the CD 22. It would look goofy, and might not even be able to lift fully out of the water due to the larger cowling hitting the splashwell. There are much better choices for this application IMHO, including other 115 HP models. Mike.
When we first started cruising our '05, 22' C-Dory with twin Honda 40s we kept the heavy 96 quart cooler in the cabin (ugh) then the cockpit. The next year I moved it under the V birth where the Porta Potty was and the improvement in handling was immediately apparent.
IMO these boats are sensitive to excess weight on the stern.
IMO these boats are sensitive to excess weight on the stern.