What would you do?

N

nscogin

New member
We have been planning to cruise over to Lankford Bay Marina from Essex, Maryland (the opposite side of the Chesapeake) today to join the C-Brats gathering. It's about 40 miles. Right now there are small craft advisories in effect for the area with winds of up to 20 knots, about a 40% chance of precipitation including possible thunderstorms. We have not gone out in these kinds of conditions before and are usually pretty cautious. We'll have our 8 year old with us.

What would you do in these types of conditions? I really want to go, but don't want to do anything foolish.

Norma
 
Norma,

I wouldn't do anything that took me and my child out into water and weather where I was afraid or even a little bit afraid. C-Brat get togethers are supposed to be fun, not tests. If you want to become confident in rougher water then go out for short hops without your 8 year-old and experiment, the C-Dory can take a lot more than you think (as the old hands remind me). The Chesapeake can have nasty weather and a 40 mile crossing would be no fun in such weather. On the way back from this year's Lopez Island gathering, (our first), my wife and I on C-Cakes encountered some pretty rough water (4-6ft short chop) on our way back but felt completely confident in the boat. We later found out that some boats turned back because of even rougher water on another route. Each time we go out our confidence increases but theres no shame in being prudent.

Barry and Patti on C-Cakes
 
Thanks for the advice, Barry. Of course one of the big selling points of these boats is how well they do in rough weather. The waves here are expected to be 1-3 feet. We've been out in 2 foot waves with no problem. It's just hard for me to envision exactly how rough this would be. One issue is that the wind would be behind us most of the way, but with the tide going out.

We can always arrive by land without our boat and still have fun.

Last weekend was absolutely gorgeous here. Such is life on the water.

Norma
 
Norma, I can't answer your specific question about this trip, but perhaps I can offer another perspective. I have a captain's license and have taught sailing classes for our sailing club. There is always a question about safety and what conditions are too much. And a great question that is.

Most well-designed boats can take a lot more than their crew (evidence of this from when the CG pulls people off a boat and the boat later drifts ashore on its own). The unknown is one's comfort level. Go out in conditions that are beyond your comfort level and someone is likely to get scared to the point that they don't want to go out again. And those same conditions may seem benign to someone with more heavy weather experience.

Start easy and work up. As you see that you can handle a bit more, take on a bit more. Small Craft Advisories mean different conditions in different parts of the country:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/cwd.htm

There is a lot of difference between 20 knots and 33 knots on sea state. Knowing how far you are to some protection, taking proper precautions, and having communication ability along your route will all influence your comfort level.

It could be fun, an adventure, or a frightening experience depending on one's attitude and the equipment. There is an old saying, "the difference between adventure and ordeal is attitude." We've seen this so much in sailing: some people absolutely freak out when a boat heels (a normal part of monohull sailing) and some love it. It's all about the comfort level. You may miss some great boating by not venturing out if conditions seem dicey, but that beats being frightened. If you get the chance to go out with someone who has more experience with weather, it will increase your comfort level faster. And especially with a little one onboard, it is better to err on the side of caution.

Have a great time at the gathering, regardless of your mode of transportation!

Best wishes,
Jim B.

We've done some pretty fun activities over the years... with flying, motorcycling, sailing, etc, we've always made it a point to be sure the least experienced person aboard has fun... it's how you bring new people into the activity.
 
I agree with Barry. YOU need to be confident and comfortable with your decision. That only comes with experience. Drive around if you have any hesitation about this particular trip. P.S. - the one big electrical storm we experienced on the Chesapeake last year was AWESOME to see - I did not feel in danger, but then, what do I know about it...
 
I would not go into known deteriorating weather.

Another reason is not traumatizing the 8 year old and turning him off of boating. Nothing is more alarming for a child than seeing grownups in anxiety and bad weather can sure do that in a hurry.

Find some protected water and watch the storm pass if you want to be out. Storms are the time to be anchored and watch the weather. Good weather -- travel.
 
I agree with all the others about the decision to stay home or drive around. It will take some time before you are:
1) Confident with the boat and
2) knowledgeable enough about the local water and weather to be able to correlate predicted and current weather reports with a seat of the pants feel for what those reports actually mean in practice.

However, I will state that 2 will never happen if you only go out in "nice" weather. So, in the coming years, when you're not pressed for time and don't need to get someplace, go out in some less than ideal weather - even if only for a brief time. Start out easy and stay close to home and eventually you'll be able to determine when you should and should not go out. As a general rule, separate these learning experiences from any need to get someplace. A very common error for both boaters and private pilots is to allow their desire/need to be in a particular place at a particular time overrule their otherwise good sense. That's how a lot of people get into trouble.

No to answer your questions. If it were me, in the waters on WHICH I usually boat, 20kt winds from the back would be only a little annoying and would not be a show stopper for a trip. However, I wouldn't go out bottom fishing and probably wouldn't try trolling either (unless I was sure fish were in thick). A 2-3 hour trip in the weather forcasted would probably also be OK for me but wouldn't be my favorite. 25kts and up and I stay home, 15kts and less and I don't worry about it at all. Also, my decisions depend on both the wind direction and the structure of the land between point A and B. If I can run close to the lee shore during the trip or tuck in behind an island, higher winds are OK. Also, if there's a lot of larger traffic going in the same direction, I might tuck in behind them. Prior to 911, on high wind days an easy way to get a smooth Puget sound crossing was to tuck in close behind a ferry. Post 911, they don't like that so much...

I can say that I have been out in the Straits of Juan de Fuca in more than one "small craft advisory" and never was worried or in any really danger in my 22. However, I am used to certain types of conditions and know what to worry about. Also, there's a lot of variation between the low end and the high end of a small craft advisory. But you will only recognize what's good for YOU with time and experience on the water.
 
Put your boat behind your tow vehicle, drive around, go down to the docks(where the gathering is taking place). If the water looks good around the docks, put her in and enjoy the crowd in the comfort of the calmer waters around the docks...and..for sure there is plenty to learn about your boat and it's handling and reactions in close quarters too..
If the water looks bad... go enjoy the crowd. You could always launch her...play about the day and tommorow, sleep on board, then more than likely there with be another boat or two crossing back over. You can single hand this boat in the crowd of others and gain some experience.. ... and have them meet you at the ramp on the other side. BUT>>>> get that boat in the water and enjoy it!!! There more than plenty folks at that gathering who have been right where you are....and will be glad to help too. For sure you have a VHF on the boat??
 
Rely on your feelings. If you are thinking about it as unsure if you should sail or not, then Don't. Basic seamenship is always check your weather and as the sayings go.......it's better to be at shore wishing you had gone, than to be out in a stink, wishing you had stayed at dock.
Drive over and have a good time.
 
That was good advice from everyone. Now that we are safely home, I can tell you what we did.

First I checked and rechecked the weather report. Top winds were predicted to be 20 knots with 2 to 3 foot waves. Very little chance of storms. On paper, this seemed well within our capabilities and the capablities fo the boat, but to be comfortable going out we devised plans A, B and C.

Plan A was to cruise all the way to Lankford Bay and would be the path if we felt comfortable doing so.

Plan B, which occurred to me Saturday morning and which I talked over with Tom McHugh by phone that morning, was to stop at Rock Hall harbor, a much closer spot by water and only a 20 minute trolley ride from Lankford Bay. The continued cruise around Eastern Neck would have been another 20 miles. By stopping at the harbor we could have our cruise but keep it more manageable and still attend the gathering.

Plan C was to take the boat out into the bay and turn back if the weather was too rough or felt uncomfortable. That way we'd still have time to drive around to the gathering and would get the last hour on the engine to achieve our goal of having the 20 hour service done at Cutter before we have the boat hauled to our place in MA next week.

By having several "bail out" points, we were able to proceed in stages and not get into a situation that felt beyond our ability to handle. And yes, we have a VHF and checked the weather before we started and several times along the way and I kept it on and tuned to Channel 16.

And we ended up choosing (drum roll, please . . . ) Plan B.

First let me say that we are not inexperienced boaters. Sherry has spent all her life on boats. Her father was an electrical engineer designing submarines and she has been on similar sized boats numerous times in a variety of conditions. We had an 18 foot sailboat before buying the C-Dory and have been out in less than ideal conditions and have gotten back safely. Second, we had been out on the Dawn Treader enough to have a good feel for what she can handle. Plus I've read all the bragging folks on this website do! Third, we surmized that having the wind behind us would allow us to ride the waves that did come up and that we could go as slowly as we needed to -- no pressure to win a race. We are also naturally safety conscious but not nervous nellies. And our daughter is down right adventurous. There's nothing she likes better than wake after wake from bigger boats.

We take turns at the helm and yesterday it was my turn to start out. We came down Middle River, which was a little rougher than usual. At that point I thought we might very well encounter more than we wanted to take on and turn back after getting out past Hart Miller Island, where we would no longer be protected by proximity to land on both sides. However, when we got past Hart Miller, the waves were still only 1 to 2 feet, with an occasional three footer. The bigger waves didn't come until we were about 2/3 of the way across. They were actually more like 4 plus feet, but there were no thunderstorms or precip of any kind. I hoped the waves would get smaller as we approached land. At no point did I feel panicked or even anxious. I would just say that a smoother ride would have been more fun, but there was nothing scary about this for me.

We went a little past Rock Hall harbor and still the waves were pretty big. I think I could have gone on, but we started talking about turning back to the harbor and our daughter started complaining that she felt sick. So we decided to cut the cruise short and head for a familiar anchorage. It was a bit rougher turning at an angle to the waves, but still not scary or uncomfortable for us. We made it into the harbor and found a transient slip for the night, then called the trolley to take us over to the party.

The cruise back this morning was a piece of cake in comparison.

No one actually got sick. Everybody was happy and safe. Everybody wants to go out again soon (except maybe the dog who never wanted to go in the first place) and I think we made a series of good decisions. It was a great learning experience and a great confidence builder.

Norma

PS Byrdman, if we had a trailer and a vehicle to tow it we would have done exactly as you suggested. But we don't.
 
YYYYYEEEEEE HAAAAA! Another great time on a C-Dory... Glad you had fun... each time out will be a little of the same....and a little differant too. You have a wonderful very safe vessel. As far as bragging... we often have our "stupid man got caught not thinking light" (shortend to stupid man light) burning much brighter than any light house on any coast.... and by having good boats, Great Luck...and the Grace of God at our helm... we lived, laughed and learned. You did a great thing by going with your guts. Truly look forward to your post as you explore further. For sure you have some wonderful waters. And....once you get your camera back home.... we look forward to the post too.

Byrdman
 
I forgot to add that I've been studying Chapman's Piloting and pored over the weather section Saturday morning during the final planning phase. It's a great reference tool.

Norma
 
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