When to fill up with gas?

[easy does it]

newby 1st trip out. I was going to fill both factory tanks and 2 small red ones at Costco in st George and then drive 2 1/2 hrs to page. Thinking of convenience and cost. Or should I fill up in page just before I put in. Thinking of weight and additional danger traveling if any. Thank you...single axel trailer

 

[Desert Dory]

I would just fill up in Page. $2.25 last week when we filled. Now, the marina's on the lake were another story. Try $5.88 a gallon for 87 octane :shock:

 

[hardee]

I would consider what your tongue weight is. If you are light on the tongue with the tanks empty, you will be lighter after you add the boat gas, making trailering with a single axle trailer more "wobbly". That would be for a long tow, for short runs, I would fill where I could get good gas. Unless you are going to burn all that gas right away, I would also add Stabil 360. Or just put it into the portable tanks and burn through the fixed tanks then add the Stabil so you have stabilized gas in the system at the end. You can then drive home with part empty tanks and fill at home, adding the Stabil then.

Again noting, the light tongue weight will have your trailer wandering much more. Moving boat ballast can help.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[journey on]

look at it this way. You're hauling any gas you're buying in St George to Paige. The difference is 30 cents/gal, but you're going to haul that gas up some steep hills and around some nice curves. Only you can decide if the extra weight is worth it. And you'll probably want to go into Paige to buy supplies.

Personally, since we haul a 25' C-Dory, I'd rather haul the lightest load I can and load up before we launch. Gas is 6.5 #/gal, our tank is 100 gal so I think that's a lot extra to tow and the road is narrow and winding.

Boris

 

[thataway]

Depends on which way you come in. We usually filled up at Big Water/State Line, or Page. There are some lanes (I think it is the Shell station) where there are pumps on each side just to fill up boats, around in the back. Definitely you don't want to fill up on the water unless you absolutely have to.

 

[RobLL]

One good thing about filling up at marinas here on the Puget Sound is that just about all of them have alcohol free gasoline.

 

[thataway]

I got 15 gallons non ethanol gas at a local gas station for $2.85 a gallon. The marinas are charging a dollar a gallon more. Many of our filling stations have the non ethanol--and the one I used was the closest--but not the cheapest.

 

[easy does it]

It seems you are suggesting I use non eth gas. considerably more expensive. Well ok but my engine manuals say up to 10% eth is ok...so which is it?

 

[flagold]

It seems you are suggesting I use non eth gas. considerably more expensive. Well ok but my engine manuals say up to 10% eth is ok...so which is it?

Use non-ethanol gasoline. No matter what the manual says. Over time, you will benefit greatly by not having water separation in your tanks, and a myriad of other problems well documented on other threads. As for the fuel itself: you will get more by fueling in the cool of the day (night or early morning) and then run the overage off as fuel expands during the heat of the day. Over time, this will be a significant savings and offset the need to look for 5¢ cheaper and the like.

 

[Dan McNally]

Interesting take on fuel choices here. I just had my carbs cleaned and restored 10 months ago because of a slight stumble at about 2200 rpms. I brought the boat home and parked it added some fuel stabilizer and let it sit for ten months. Fired it up to play and it was all messed up, the only way it would run is with the choke being used. Took it back to the shop and talked with them and they stated that there are issues with either type of fuel you use. If you use non ethanol fuel you need to do that consistently and he stated that their recommendation is to run ethanol fuel with lots of stabilizer and to keep the tanks full and the fuel lines hooked up. I will take him at his word he has always been good to me for the past fifteen years servicing my 22 footer. He stated that their recommendations have evolved as the understanding of fuel types have changed in the recent past.

 

[starcrafttom]

brought the boat home and parked it added some fuel stabilizer and let it sit for ten months.

Ok I have a few questions because I see things in this statement that make me say ???. I feel that using non ethanol fuel and stabilizers are pretty much a waste of money. You say you added stabilizer and let it sit for 10 month? Did you run the fuel out of the carbs first? Did you run the stabilized in to the carbs?? I ask because fuel in a TANK is not going bad in 10 month or a year or 2. Gas in small amounts, like in your carb, will evaporate and leave behind additives like detergents and ethanal. Lots of crap in gas besides Ethanal. So if you have a carbureted engine you should always run it dry and drain the carbs of all fuel if you are going to leave it for a few month. Gas can NOT go bad if its not there to began with. Yes ethanal in older carbed motors is not good, well ethanal in gas is not good for anything but votes, payoffs and welfare for farmer and environmentalist. It does nothing for the enviroment at all. That aside if its not in your carbs it cant hurt. If you are fuel injected you dont even have to worry about that. I think your problem was fuel left in the carbs not the ethanal boogie man. I have never used stabilizer, just drained carbs and or fuel if need be. Only time in 45 years of using outboards and small motor and the only time I have had trouble is when I for got to do this. Hope that helps.

 

[TyBoo]

I understand how the fuel injectors would be less likely than carbs to be fouled up by the ethanol but am wondering if the folks who have EFI should drain the vapor separator tank before storing the boat for long periods. The VST is basically just an oversized float bowl with a needle and seat valve, correct? It doesn't have the small orifices that can plug up quickly but it does hold a fair amount of fuel that could leave residue and cause trouble downstream or plug the high pressure filter a little quicker.

I run E10 from Costco almost exclusively in my Suzukis and only use an additive (Startron is my current choice) during the low use times between crabbing and salmon fishing. I don't really know why I use it but it makes me feel good and that is worth something.

As for traveling with the tanks empty or full, just tow with a Chevy truck and you won't even know the difference. My CD25 holds 110 gallons of gas and 60 gallons of freshwater and I have always filled things up before leaving for the SJ Islands. If I were driving farther than a few hundred miles I would likely rethink that.

 

[ssobol]

I understand how the fuel injectors would be less likely than carbs to be fouled up by the ethanol but am wondering if the folks who have EFI should drain the vapor separator tank before storing the boat for long periods. The VST is basically just an oversized float bowl with a needle and seat valve, correct? It doesn't have the small orifices that can plug up quickly but it does hold a fair amount of fuel that could leave residue and cause trouble downstream or plug the high pressure filter a little quicker. ...

I believe that once the fuel leaves the tank in a FI engine there are no vents. Therefore, there is no evaporation of the gas in the engine and you don't have to worry about the gas evaporating and leaving junk behind. You may have to worry about phase separation in the system if it sits long enough, but that probably means you'd have phase separation in the tank(s) as well.

 

[Dan McNally]

It is not only the crud left behind from evaporation with ethanol fuels it is the damage to seals and o rings ect. This is just what I have heard and I am no expert on the matter. I just know that it was expensive to have the work done and not get to enjoy it before having more work done is a disappointment. I plan to use the boat more in the future and maybe that will help with the problem also.

 

[thataway]

Any engine with a carburetor which I own gets the carburetor drained or fuel run out of it. Doing that I basically have zero problems. leaving fuel in any of the Carburators, unless running every week or so, leads to issues.

On my injected engines, I don't drain, and have gone over a year and the fuel was fine. I do use stabilizers.

I sure don't agree with your mechanics. But they are now going to be repaid for another Carburetor rebuild....

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

It seems you are suggesting I use non eth gas. considerably more expensive. Well ok but my engine manuals say up to 10% eth is ok...so which is it?

Use non ethanol, your boat will thank you for it.

 

[hardee]

Interesting take on fuel choices here. I just had my carbs cleaned and restored 10 months ago *#A because of a slight stumble at about 2200 rpms. I brought the boat home and parked it added some fuel stabilizer and let it sit for ten months *#B. Fired it up to play and it was all messed up, the only way it would run is with the choke being used. Took it back to the shop and talked with them and they stated that there are issues with either type of fuel you use. If you use non ethanol fuel you need to do that consistently *#3 and he stated that their recommendation is to run ethanol fuel with lots of stabilizer and to keep the tanks full and the fuel lines hooked up. *#4 I will take him at his word he has always been good to me for the past fifteen years servicing my 22 footer. He stated that their recommendations have evolved as the understanding of fuel types *#5 have changed in the recent past.

I see lots of questions and issues here.

*#A Were the jets replaced with new, or just "cleaned"?
*#B Was all the previous Gas used, diluted or disposed of? Was the stabilizer run through the engines after it was added to the tank?
*#3 Nice idea but seriously impractical, and in my belief, a bunch of baloney. (I have mixed gas types for 15 years with NO problem using my (stated here) methods.
*#4 Finally something that actually makes sense. And it has worked in my practice for 15 years.
*#5 Yes, both fuels AND additives have changed over time, Additives much more so.

I bought my boat with 80 hours on brand new engines and then it sat for several months, outside, summer into late fall, before I found it. When I first ran it, it stuttered and would not run near mid throttle. Don't know for sure but most likely had untreated, ethanol gas. Took it into the mechanics, Yamaha Certified and under warrantee, and the carbs were all gunked up.




My mechanic said to do this:
1. Add Marine Stabil at every fill UNLESS I was on a cruise and would be running that fuel out FOR SURE in less than the next week.
2. When returning to home port, ADD Marine Stabil treatment for a full tank at whatever level the gas was currently, so that that could be running through the engines before shutting them down.
3. Fill the tanks on the way home and add the Marine Stable for the amount (gallons put in), of the fill.
4. Store the boat with full tanks, and the added Stabil.
5. IF it sits for several months, like over the winter, ADD Startron (to boost the octane) when launching for the first of the season.
6. In the Spring, the first fill might be only half or less, of a tank. That first fill gets the next fuel octane step up from the usual octane which is 87 or 88. That is the only time I use other than "regular" octane.

Doing this practice, and nothing else fuel wise I have not, since the Carb rebuild, had a single fuel issue. In the last 5 years I have added using the Yamaha RingFree additive with each fill, or every other if I am doing cruising where I am filling frequently. On my last fill on a cruise, that gas is coming from a marina pump, and in most cases that will be non-ethanol. When I fill the tanks on the way home that will be non-ethanol for sure. I have nearly 1800 hours and fully expect to get up to 3000 before repowering. The OBs are professionally maintained twice a year. My belief is that if I take care of my twins, they well take care of me. Has worked perfectly so far.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

ADD Startron (to boost the octane) when launching for the first of the season.

Startron (known by other names in various parts of the World) is a "magic" material which claims to use enzymes to keep fuel in best condition. The original tests are really marginal--but I have seen old diesel fuel which had gelled, and Startron was added, and after 3000 miles of sailing the diesel was liquid again, which allowed it to be pumped out of tanks.

No where have I see Startron proof that it increases octane. Even in their add, Star write (the US dealer for Startron--and their name for the material) they say it "restores or preserves" octane. It will not make 87 octane fuel into 89 octane fuel.

Yes I have been using Startron for a number of years--I don't really know if it works or not. I also use Stabil, which also helps to preserve the fuel's properties. I have used 4 year old fuel, stabilized, in an injected engine. Not the best, but worked. Eventually I pumped that out--disposed of it, and put in new fuel.

I don't disagree with Harvey's way of handling fuel. But despite the claimed "magic". there is no real "Magic".

 

[hardee]

Agree that Startron does not boost octane, like from 88 to 94, but after the fuel sits over the winter it might have dropped from 88 to 86, and that is when I add the Startron. Maybe that is the "restore" function working. It has been working for 15 years, and I kind of go along with,

IF it ain't broke, don't fix it and if it's been working why change it.

I'm not a chemist or a mechanic, but I'm happy when my OBs are running. The "Magic" is being on the water.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I think draining carbs works really well in general - tons of evidence on that. I have used stabil too, but now use Sea Foam Marine PRO because it cleans fuel systems and stabilizes the fuel. However, I really don't believe that any of these cleaners or stabilizer is really far different than the other.