Which Boat? The Envelope Please!
- Thread starter Stuberg
- Start date
Thomas Jefferson
New member
Greetings all!
I’ve really been enjoying this thread. Wow, what excitement and drama.
Many thanks to Redfox, starcrafttom, and catman to name but a few!
Standing up for freedom of speech is critical. I particularly like what starcraftom said:
* * * **
I really love this site but what is next … book burnings?
* * * * *
In the USA, I think we still believe in freedom of speech and, even if we disagree with someone, we’ll fight to the death for a person’s right to this basic freedom.
This thread has been a good lesson and worth thinking about.
It appears to me as if someone originally came to the site for boating information from people that he thought had similar interests. Whoa! What he found was a small group of people controlling this site that didn’t want anything to do with him because he bought a different boat, even though it is from the exact same design lineage. He was fine and doing well on the site until he made his boat buying decision public knowledge.
Isn’t that interesting?
Luckily, a number of members have stood up for him even after he was banned. Good job!
If you look at all of his posts, you’ll clearly see that all he wanted was to share information and talk about boating. What he got was attacked and banned.
Great folks like Redfox have now invited him to their site. And after seeing what Redfox does with his boat, I can say without hesitation that Redfox is going to be a great coach for Stuberg, Steuberg, Stewberg, and my personal favorite, Stupidberg. Redfox is probably one of the best boating coaches anyone could ever find. I mean the guy actually drives around in ice. I’m still amazed by some of his photos. I wish I would have had him on the Lewis and Clark Expedition.
So what’s the right thing to do? That’s easy. You should invite this guy back to the site. I’m not expecting that to happen but that would indeed be the right thing to do. You wouldn’t believe the number of Founding Fathers that gave me grief but, at the end of the day, I think we created something that’s worth defending, cherishing, and being forever grateful for.
Sincerely,
Thomas Jefferson
P.S. I’m going to send this message to a number of C-Brats privately so they’ll know if it gets deleted from the site. I’m not an easy going on being banned as that 1 in 28,389 guy.
I’ve really been enjoying this thread. Wow, what excitement and drama.
Many thanks to Redfox, starcrafttom, and catman to name but a few!
Standing up for freedom of speech is critical. I particularly like what starcraftom said:
* * * **
I really love this site but what is next … book burnings?
* * * * *
In the USA, I think we still believe in freedom of speech and, even if we disagree with someone, we’ll fight to the death for a person’s right to this basic freedom.
This thread has been a good lesson and worth thinking about.
It appears to me as if someone originally came to the site for boating information from people that he thought had similar interests. Whoa! What he found was a small group of people controlling this site that didn’t want anything to do with him because he bought a different boat, even though it is from the exact same design lineage. He was fine and doing well on the site until he made his boat buying decision public knowledge.
Isn’t that interesting?
Luckily, a number of members have stood up for him even after he was banned. Good job!
If you look at all of his posts, you’ll clearly see that all he wanted was to share information and talk about boating. What he got was attacked and banned.
Great folks like Redfox have now invited him to their site. And after seeing what Redfox does with his boat, I can say without hesitation that Redfox is going to be a great coach for Stuberg, Steuberg, Stewberg, and my personal favorite, Stupidberg. Redfox is probably one of the best boating coaches anyone could ever find. I mean the guy actually drives around in ice. I’m still amazed by some of his photos. I wish I would have had him on the Lewis and Clark Expedition.
So what’s the right thing to do? That’s easy. You should invite this guy back to the site. I’m not expecting that to happen but that would indeed be the right thing to do. You wouldn’t believe the number of Founding Fathers that gave me grief but, at the end of the day, I think we created something that’s worth defending, cherishing, and being forever grateful for.
Sincerely,
Thomas Jefferson
P.S. I’m going to send this message to a number of C-Brats privately so they’ll know if it gets deleted from the site. I’m not an easy going on being banned as that 1 in 28,389 guy.
If there was any doubt about why we did what we did, let's hope this puts it to rest.
Robert Stuberg was banned, and chose a technical work-around to get back on here to start up with his shenanigans again as "Thomas Jefferson." I'll be taking additional technical and administrative measures to address the situation, but please - don't fall for his taunts again.
Let's practice what we know will work - simply ignore him.
Thanks,
Bill
Robert Stuberg was banned, and chose a technical work-around to get back on here to start up with his shenanigans again as "Thomas Jefferson." I'll be taking additional technical and administrative measures to address the situation, but please - don't fall for his taunts again.
Let's practice what we know will work - simply ignore him.
Thanks,
Bill
starcrafttom
Active member
Thomas Jefferson never freed his slaves so I am not sure he understood what he was writing, but Iam glad he wrote it. My only advice to stuberg is to stop posting on this thread and just stick to boating related questions. JUst because I support your right to freedom of speech does not mean that You are right. I support nazis right to march and rant right along with the american communist party, but don't expect me to listen or agree and don't be surprised when you get yelled down and ridiculed by better ideas. If you want to prove that you have only good intentions then set the example and let this thread die.
I am very hesitant to post in this damnable thread, but it seems important to point something out.
It is public knowledge that Mr. Stuberg's online businesses have been reported as a source of email spam on the Usenet groups. The most recent identifiable instance I found in a few minutes of searching is from 2003, and I do not purport to know of any later unidentifiable instances. But I do know this: If you have received an email delivered through this site, the sender does not know your email address. If you reply to the email, the original sender will know both your email and IP addresses. I am not suggesting you should distrust Mr. Stuberg or anyone else. I do trust that each of us is intelligent enough to make his own call.
Perhaps this should have been noted way early in this thread, but I felt it would be misinterpreted or the motives would be questioned. Each of you can be secure in believing that neither Bill or I would go blindly into something controversial that affects the C-Brat site or its valued Members. We are by choice morally restrained from casting aspersions, whether based on known facts or not, even when we have done the research and dispelled the skepticism in our own minds. We cannot, nor will we pretend to have a right to try to convince others of what we believe.
There was doubt put forth by some that the Stuberg who posted here was not the same as the .com Robert Stuberg. We verified that to a very high degree of certainty before alluding to it.
While our, or in this case my, decision to terminate the membership of Mr. Stuberg was made in a fit of pique, it was not taken lightly nor was it done just because I got ticked off. There is most always more to a story than what is written on the pages. It is our responsibility, having been given the trust of so many members, to know all we can of a story whose ending may be detrimental to our group. A good deal of what we are able to learn is really nobody's business, and we do not feel obligated to share more than is fair simply to silence dissent.
Thank you for your trust.
Mike
It is public knowledge that Mr. Stuberg's online businesses have been reported as a source of email spam on the Usenet groups. The most recent identifiable instance I found in a few minutes of searching is from 2003, and I do not purport to know of any later unidentifiable instances. But I do know this: If you have received an email delivered through this site, the sender does not know your email address. If you reply to the email, the original sender will know both your email and IP addresses. I am not suggesting you should distrust Mr. Stuberg or anyone else. I do trust that each of us is intelligent enough to make his own call.
Perhaps this should have been noted way early in this thread, but I felt it would be misinterpreted or the motives would be questioned. Each of you can be secure in believing that neither Bill or I would go blindly into something controversial that affects the C-Brat site or its valued Members. We are by choice morally restrained from casting aspersions, whether based on known facts or not, even when we have done the research and dispelled the skepticism in our own minds. We cannot, nor will we pretend to have a right to try to convince others of what we believe.
There was doubt put forth by some that the Stuberg who posted here was not the same as the .com Robert Stuberg. We verified that to a very high degree of certainty before alluding to it.
While our, or in this case my, decision to terminate the membership of Mr. Stuberg was made in a fit of pique, it was not taken lightly nor was it done just because I got ticked off. There is most always more to a story than what is written on the pages. It is our responsibility, having been given the trust of so many members, to know all we can of a story whose ending may be detrimental to our group. A good deal of what we are able to learn is really nobody's business, and we do not feel obligated to share more than is fair simply to silence dissent.
Thank you for your trust.
Mike
Give it to me straight - Should this thread be locked so it can be read but not posted to? I don't need to hear the yes votes, but anyone with a reason or preference to keep it open should please let me know.
Don't worry about us deleting it. It is really entertaining, and there is a lot to learn about our virtual selves in it.
Don't worry about us deleting it. It is really entertaining, and there is a lot to learn about our virtual selves in it.
Do what ever you want with it, I'm sure done with it. It seems that you have struggled with this on many levels. I empathize with you and look forward to putting the most of this behind us. You guys put too much work into this for us as it is. Like it or not, this thread is part of the site now. Archive it, and we will all fondly reminisce on cold dark days. Unless you live in Florida. Or Africa. But, man, those Alaskans are going to have a bunch of those for the next FOUR months!
I am new to this site so listen to your longtime members before considering what I have to say.
However, I believe if you lock this thread we lose. I haven’t done a lot of posting myself, but I read the majority of the post and I believe the members themselves will let this thread die by itself. To stupidberg that will be a tremendous disappointment and blow to his ego. If you lock it, he will, in his own twisted mind feel he won.
I said I would not post to this thread again earlier today but because of your question, I felt compelled to answer you. As you will note, none of my post on this thread has been a response to stupidberg. He is a number one A**hole and I refuse to acknowledge him. All my post has been about him and to other members.
My vote is let the members voluntarily kill it by not posting here anymore. The best thing that could happen is, stupidberg post's here again using a different name and nobody answers.
Unless you ask us another question, this is my last word on this subject.
I vote we keep Thomas Jefferson among us. No one can divide and conquer us without our permission. I have chosen not to be offended by Stuberg's posts, though if some of his pokes were aimed at my ribs I'd have to take a big breath and do an anger inventory.
Guys, what was said to him seemed as personal, as pointed as anything he said. The things Stuberg said, and his dogged determination to persevere, didn't arouse my anger. Rather, I looked inside myself to find out what I think and why.
Stuberg, if indeed you've morphed into a founding father I humbly offer this: Starcraft Tom has a good point. He suggests the experiment may be over, that it's time to jump back into boat talk. Really. People have been tested, answers offered. Let's boat!
:cat
Guys, what was said to him seemed as personal, as pointed as anything he said. The things Stuberg said, and his dogged determination to persevere, didn't arouse my anger. Rather, I looked inside myself to find out what I think and why.
Stuberg, if indeed you've morphed into a founding father I humbly offer this: Starcraft Tom has a good point. He suggests the experiment may be over, that it's time to jump back into boat talk. Really. People have been tested, answers offered. Let's boat!
:cat
TyBoo":2ddphodb said:
Leave it unlocked. If only to minimize other threads springing up from the same source. I'm sure his very first message raised some red flags in Pleasant Hills and Province, and your restraint (and honesty) just adds to the respect the vast majority of Brat users have for the management team here.
Nothing Stuberg can post under any pseudonym will change that opinion where it counts. Sure, there will always be brats who will post, but hopefully they'll read all the messages leading up to this point and learn from the experience before jumping in themselves.
The Internet has a dark side and Stuberg is just a little sand shark compared to some of the Great Whites one can run into if one isn't careful.
Don
In the interest of relatively full disclosure, Robert Stuberg mailed me seven of his company's CD's. Guys, I'm telling you, there's good stuff in there. The kind of information we'd want to teach our kids. Or ourselves.
The kind of information I'm frankly more interested in than boats, believe it or not. (Okay, it's a tie.) The reason is because his message is a part of every moment of my life, while boating offers only periodic recreation. Fabulous recreation to be sure. But after hearing his CD's this morning, I learned that what he's saying is this: Our thoughts control our lives, and we control our thoughts.
Pretty simple stuff. And everywhere I go, my thoughts go with me.
Here's what I'd like to see, if Stuberg's still here. A thread on the That's Life forum that delves into the information contained in some of your CD's, Stuberg. I mean, without compromising accepted business practices. Lord knows you've attracted readers. Maybe talk boats on the main pages, steering clear of any perceived "mine's better" assertions, and feed the Cat some more of those easily digestible and inspiring life nuggets at the above suggested forum.
The kind of information I'm frankly more interested in than boats, believe it or not. (Okay, it's a tie.) The reason is because his message is a part of every moment of my life, while boating offers only periodic recreation. Fabulous recreation to be sure. But after hearing his CD's this morning, I learned that what he's saying is this: Our thoughts control our lives, and we control our thoughts.
Pretty simple stuff. And everywhere I go, my thoughts go with me.
Here's what I'd like to see, if Stuberg's still here. A thread on the That's Life forum that delves into the information contained in some of your CD's, Stuberg. I mean, without compromising accepted business practices. Lord knows you've attracted readers. Maybe talk boats on the main pages, steering clear of any perceived "mine's better" assertions, and feed the Cat some more of those easily digestible and inspiring life nuggets at the above suggested forum.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Stewy baby... welcome back. I can see why ya -- unjoined -- :cry :disgust my site though---ya didn't like my "thoughts and comments" to-be-sure :!: but thats fine, I don't blame anybody for that :lol: 8) You know I actually enjoy people with "weakness" and are a little "tweaked" 
:xlol I do appreciate your comments as "me-the-boat-coach" your right, that is about what I'm all about, well, maybe my snowmachine side is just as tweaked too... 
I hope I qualify for a free session too... I'll pass them on :teeth please ... :idea :embarrased
Greg
:xlol I do appreciate your comments as "me-the-boat-coach" your right, that is about what I'm all about, well, maybe my snowmachine side is just as tweaked too... I hope I qualify for a free session too...
I'll pass them on :teeth please ... :idea :embarrased Greg
Catman":2a6ucwfm said:
What a great concept...unfortunately, it doesn't apply in the real world, and he knows this and takes advantage of it. People are easily manipulated, and he's making a dandy example of that here.
And therein lies the great irony with Stuberg's words of wisdom...he preaches this great ideal of self-control, yet is a pro at controlling people's thoughts and actions, and practices it with virtually every word he writes. His choice of words are meant to invoke emotion and response, and makes the very practice he preaches more difficult to live by.
No disrespect, Catman - you know you're one of my bestest buds, and I respect you immensely. But I don't need some manipulating self-help huckster educating me on how I can make my life better.
To me, real growth and understanding comes from personal relationships with quality people - not some stranger playing science experiments with your thoughts. Unlike Stuberg, good friends are the "real deal". I've learned more about life, people, compassion, respect and yes - myself - from you, sitting in the back of Bambina pounding a few beers.
Which is how it should be. The path to self-improvement is best traveled with those you know, trust and respect. None of which applies to Mr. Stuberg, at least for me.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nah Bill, he’s done us good here! If ya only hang with peep that are just like you, what growth is that. To me that’s human nature… to just stay in your own little world and ward-off new challenges. So what he may be looking for new clients, we have him on the right forum at least now… if you have not blocked him again!
As far as all the praise to the “admin” some should not disregard the fact that participating is the real reason this site is so great, and keeps going. Let’s hope some stop there name calling though, or I will be gone, as in a permanent “POOF”
Change is inevitable though, times I feel this site is may be getting “a little too big for its britches”.
I wonder what the other 1000-some “members” who don’t post, are thinking. No big deal anyway, there will just more and more “ignoring” of certain individuals, as the site grows.
Thanx for letting me post my opinion. That is a good thing here!
Greg :|
As far as all the praise to the “admin” some should not disregard the fact that participating is the real reason this site is so great, and keeps going. Let’s hope some stop there name calling though, or I will be gone, as in a permanent “POOF”
Change is inevitable though, times I feel this site is may be getting “a little too big for its britches”.
I wonder what the other 1000-some “members” who don’t post, are thinking. No big deal anyway, there will just more and more “ignoring” of certain individuals, as the site grows.
Thanx for letting me post my opinion. That is a good thing here!
Greg :|
A
Anonymous
Guest
True ol Bud, and sorry I "threw ya out on-yer-ear" but it is open to the "public" you can view everything still. Don't take it personal, but decided last night to make it for "Alaskans only" ("members" that is), with a few friends I actually have hung with and boated up here with, as the only exception, that way if it ever does take-off, we won't get too big, and I won't be driven to insanity, trying ta keep up with it :crook :disgust
No I don't really "know what I'm doing" :xlol just a kid in "treefort" havin fun "makin my own rules as I go"... :xtongue I done tolded ya before "I am the C-Brat" in the C-Dory Nation... :xnaughty
"membership" (which don't mean beans anyway) has been trimmed way down! Steada scrapin the "fine site" LOL this was what I decided
I really do like your and Bills treefort a lot you know. See ya on here... :wink
No I don't really "know what I'm doing" :xlol just a kid in "treefort" havin fun "makin my own rules as I go"... :xtongue I done tolded ya before "I am the C-Brat" in the C-Dory Nation... :xnaughty
"membership" (which don't mean beans anyway) has been trimmed way down! Steada scrapin the "fine site" LOL this was what I decided
I really do like your and Bills treefort a lot you know. See ya on here... :wink