looking at boats for sale, i find that there are a few that seem to hold value abd have more demand than others. sea-sports,c-dorys, etc. can somebody explain some key differences between a 22' c-dory cruiser and a 22' bayliner? i've had a few aluminum boats, but am new to the glass boats. thanks for all replies.
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why c-dory?
- Thread starter bandit
- Start date
starcrafttom
Active member
in the $3 a gallon world of today the c-dory is the way to go. my good friend adam has a 24 bayliner trophy with a alaskan cab. this is as close to a match of boats as your going to get. They both have dinettes, v-berths, sinks, cook tops, back decks to fish from and pota-pottys. so what is the benefit of a c-dory over a bayline? Well I figured out on a trip last year to the island, friday harbour, that I burned 1/4 the fuel that he did. Well if you did that twice a month, and we do, the difference in fuel cost was equal to my boat payment of $376 a month. For me thats a big difference. I takes a large truck to two his boat. I tow with a ford ranger. The bayliner weighs twice what the c-dory weighs. We have a club!! they have a bad rap for poor quality and wood constrcostion that rots.
To be fair what are the benefit of a bayliner. They run thru 3 foot chop at 35 mph like butter, they run at 35 mph!!, they have self bailing decks if your in to that ( I hate raised decks and don't think the self bailing is worth it). a used bay liner is dirt cheap. I have seen them for $5000 in decent shape.
So its just a matter of what you can afford now and in the long run and what type of boating you wish to do. It has taking me a while to get happy with 18mph running to the fishing grounds when the wind is up and adam is running by at 35 to 40 in a deep v that cant spell "banging" but Its worth it when we get to the fuel dock. Sea sports are in the same boat as bay liner but the quality is outstanding and they keep there value.
To be fair what are the benefit of a bayliner. They run thru 3 foot chop at 35 mph like butter, they run at 35 mph!!, they have self bailing decks if your in to that ( I hate raised decks and don't think the self bailing is worth it). a used bay liner is dirt cheap. I have seen them for $5000 in decent shape.
So its just a matter of what you can afford now and in the long run and what type of boating you wish to do. It has taking me a while to get happy with 18mph running to the fishing grounds when the wind is up and adam is running by at 35 to 40 in a deep v that cant spell "banging" but Its worth it when we get to the fuel dock. Sea sports are in the same boat as bay liner but the quality is outstanding and they keep there value.
i agree with the economics of the c-dory vs. other boats. while that alone is a huge advantage, i was wondering more how the bayliners,etc. are built vs. c-dorys and others. there must be some construction differences to make them so different. not knowing anything about fiberglass boat building is why i'm asking.
Hi bandit and welcome,
For the construction differences, there is a link in the lower left corner of the opening page that links to the C-Dory factory. The layup schedule, end-grain balsa, and the fact that the hull and top are joined as one piece, rather than bolted (or worse: screwed) together will get you started on the differences. The hull shape is another major difference, but that is design, not construction. The fact that these boats evolve, rather than stylistic changes for a new model year helps them hold their value. Any manufacturer can build a solid boat (why don't they all?), but that often means: heavy. It takes quality manufacturing to make them light and solid; hand lay-up, no chopper guns.
I started my search for a powerboat over a year ago (come from a sailing background). We knew what we were looking for, just didn't know who (if anyone) made it. It took very little time to narrow our search to the C-Dory. Then, it took us another 7 months to actually see one. Two days at the Seattle Boat Show and a ride aboard Tom's (who replied to you first) cinched the decision.
I'm a believer in buying a quality product... then you only have to pay for it once. The depreciation hit will be less. The owner satisfaction will be more. In the long run, the ownership will often cost you less. Probably the best advice you could get would be to hang out here; this forum contains a wealth of information about these boats and the people who own them. It will take you weeks to read and absorb all the information contained here... and will be well worth that time investment.
Welcome to the discovery stage.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
For the construction differences, there is a link in the lower left corner of the opening page that links to the C-Dory factory. The layup schedule, end-grain balsa, and the fact that the hull and top are joined as one piece, rather than bolted (or worse: screwed) together will get you started on the differences. The hull shape is another major difference, but that is design, not construction. The fact that these boats evolve, rather than stylistic changes for a new model year helps them hold their value. Any manufacturer can build a solid boat (why don't they all?), but that often means: heavy. It takes quality manufacturing to make them light and solid; hand lay-up, no chopper guns.
I started my search for a powerboat over a year ago (come from a sailing background). We knew what we were looking for, just didn't know who (if anyone) made it. It took very little time to narrow our search to the C-Dory. Then, it took us another 7 months to actually see one. Two days at the Seattle Boat Show and a ride aboard Tom's (who replied to you first) cinched the decision.
I'm a believer in buying a quality product... then you only have to pay for it once. The depreciation hit will be less. The owner satisfaction will be more. In the long run, the ownership will often cost you less. Probably the best advice you could get would be to hang out here; this forum contains a wealth of information about these boats and the people who own them. It will take you weeks to read and absorb all the information contained here... and will be well worth that time investment.
Welcome to the discovery stage.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
bandit-
There is a BIG difference between the two boats in terms of construction:
The Bayliner is designed around a minimum price point to sell at boat shows and dealers to first time boat buyers. Everything is built to minimum cost standards to get what appears to the buyer to be the most boat for the money, and make the sale over more expesive (and durable) boats.
The Bayliner uses a chopper gun construction technique where a gun blows resin and chopped fiberglass rope into a mold to save labor costs. The fibers are short and weak, and directional strengh is uncontrolled. The resulting hull is heavy, and weak for its weight. The resin used on a C-Dory is also of much higher quality as well, and salt water blisters are virtually unheard of on hulls left in the water, something that cannot be said for the Bayliner.
A C-Dory is laid up by hand using cloth, matt, and roving with directional strength controlled. A balsa core is added between the inner and outer layer of glass to expand the distance between the layers and create stiffness though essentially making a multiidirectional box section out of the materials as opposed to the thinner, heavier, more flexible Bayliner hull. The C-Dory hull is approximately 2" thick on the bottom!
On a Bayliner, the windows are usually dark plexiglass screwed into the fiberglass openings and calked with silicone. They do not even open!
The C-Dory has aluminum alloy framed opening windows of plate safety glass that are sealed watertight and will operate for 20-30 or more years without trouble. Bug screens included!
The Bayliner has bow and cockpit rails made up of short sections of aluminum tube connected by screwed together fittings and stansions. The C-Dory's rails are one piece welded units of stainless steel tube designed and crafted specifically for each model and through bolted down through the decks with backing plates. The best proof of the diffrerence is to grab a hold of each one of them and pull and push as hard as you can on the boat. The aluminum bends and you immediately wonder if it would stop you from going overboard, whereas the C-Dory is so stiff you can hardly notice any flexing at all.
Wherever you look over the two boats, you'll find similar differences.
The fittings (such as the cleats) on the Bayliner are made of Z-mack, a zinc alloy that is corroded bady by salt water within a few years. Those on the C-Dory are stainless steel.
The Bayliner Boys have even found ways to cut corners on the rub rails by enclosing a polyproplene rope withing a plastic rail. Instead, on the C-Dory, you'll find a higher quality aluminum alloy rail with a mar resistant Delrin instert.
What's even more amazing is that, for a while, the Bayliners were being equipped with lower quality Force brand outboards, as the company had purched the old Chrysler outboard line from the auto manufacturer to keep the motor part of the profit picture in their own pockets.
I won't go on with this, as by now you get the picture. If you need to, go out and look around at both boats repeatedly, especially the older ones, and you see what you pay for is what you get.
The difference in depreciation rates says it all!
Joe.
There is a BIG difference between the two boats in terms of construction:
The Bayliner is designed around a minimum price point to sell at boat shows and dealers to first time boat buyers. Everything is built to minimum cost standards to get what appears to the buyer to be the most boat for the money, and make the sale over more expesive (and durable) boats.
The Bayliner uses a chopper gun construction technique where a gun blows resin and chopped fiberglass rope into a mold to save labor costs. The fibers are short and weak, and directional strengh is uncontrolled. The resulting hull is heavy, and weak for its weight. The resin used on a C-Dory is also of much higher quality as well, and salt water blisters are virtually unheard of on hulls left in the water, something that cannot be said for the Bayliner.
A C-Dory is laid up by hand using cloth, matt, and roving with directional strength controlled. A balsa core is added between the inner and outer layer of glass to expand the distance between the layers and create stiffness though essentially making a multiidirectional box section out of the materials as opposed to the thinner, heavier, more flexible Bayliner hull. The C-Dory hull is approximately 2" thick on the bottom!
On a Bayliner, the windows are usually dark plexiglass screwed into the fiberglass openings and calked with silicone. They do not even open!
The C-Dory has aluminum alloy framed opening windows of plate safety glass that are sealed watertight and will operate for 20-30 or more years without trouble. Bug screens included!
The Bayliner has bow and cockpit rails made up of short sections of aluminum tube connected by screwed together fittings and stansions. The C-Dory's rails are one piece welded units of stainless steel tube designed and crafted specifically for each model and through bolted down through the decks with backing plates. The best proof of the diffrerence is to grab a hold of each one of them and pull and push as hard as you can on the boat. The aluminum bends and you immediately wonder if it would stop you from going overboard, whereas the C-Dory is so stiff you can hardly notice any flexing at all.
Wherever you look over the two boats, you'll find similar differences.
The fittings (such as the cleats) on the Bayliner are made of Z-mack, a zinc alloy that is corroded bady by salt water within a few years. Those on the C-Dory are stainless steel.
The Bayliner Boys have even found ways to cut corners on the rub rails by enclosing a polyproplene rope withing a plastic rail. Instead, on the C-Dory, you'll find a higher quality aluminum alloy rail with a mar resistant Delrin instert.
What's even more amazing is that, for a while, the Bayliners were being equipped with lower quality Force brand outboards, as the company had purched the old Chrysler outboard line from the auto manufacturer to keep the motor part of the profit picture in their own pockets.
I won't go on with this, as by now you get the picture. If you need to, go out and look around at both boats repeatedly, especially the older ones, and you see what you pay for is what you get.
The difference in depreciation rates says it all!
Joe.