winterizing questions

I'm trying to understand something here but I'm having a problem. :oops: I'm told to keep the outboard trimmed down in the water so it doesn't freeze.

My understanding of the bubble systems is it keeps the water from freezing by agitating the water but what protects the water in the intake and cooling parts of the outboard from freezing? The bubble system can't affect this water or does it?

Allan
 
If all the water in the OB cooling system drains to the lower unit, at approximately where the water rests on the outside of the lower unit and the water surrounding the lower unit doesn't freeze, then the water INSIDE the lower unit CAN'T freeze....

See? :idea

Charlie
 
My concern is about what happens WHEN the water surrounding the drive head freezes. I was thinking keeping the engines tipped up and out of the water would avoid freeze damage, but some here say there is still water in the intake area or foot when the engine is tipped up. Is this true?

Bubble systems would probably work as well for the engine legs as for the hull. The bubbles act like a pump, bringing warm water up to the surface. Agitation actually speeds freezing. That is why ice makers have "thumpers" in them. Ice crystallization requires energy, uses energy, proceeds more rapidly when energy is applied to the system.

My concern is about no bubble system in areas where the surface can freeze a bit.

John
 
I would think if the hull is protected by the bubbles, then the water for a couple of feet around it would be too. I wouldn't leave the engine down if ice is going to form around the lower unit.

I just assumed the bubble system! Maybe a bad assumption? :roll:

Charlie
 
The bubble systems bring warmer water up from deeper in the lake, warming the lower unit and the boat, which could be crushed by freezing ice at the surface.

The physics of water freezing and density are so that the most dense water is about 4 degrees above 0 F. Bring this water from down on the bottom up to the surface, and the boat/motor can't freeze.

Solid ice is the least dense form of water except as a vapor/gas. If it was the most dense, it would form at the bottom of the lakes and work upward. In really cold areas, it would never completely melt in the summer. There would be no plants rooted in the lake bottom, but the whole biological and geological world (meterological world too) would also be markedly different!

I have to go to the dental hygenist!

Our resident Geologist and Earth Scientist Bill Fiero (El and Bill) may want to finish this discussion.

Bye for now!

Joe.:teeth
 
Well, if past history is any guide, Bill and El are probably crossing the Antarctic Ice Shelf right now and are out of Internet range...


John
 
Most ppl where I keep my boat say they just leave the boats in the water year round and have had no significant freeze damage even though the surface occasionally does freeze. A couple of dock mates have installed bubblers.

I am worried that the catamaran hull might be more susceptible to damage than those 40 foot and over single hull neighbors of mine. If ice expanded inbetween the sponsons against such straight sides, it seems that could do alot of damage.

I will check into the cost of installing and running bubblers, I guess.... just another handful of dollars down that hole in the lake!

John
 
Hey Joe, thanks for checking out. Don't be gone long now, 'cause you will be missed. :( You all watch for him to be back now , ya hear. :wink
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Just checking to see if you all are paying attention. Last time he left, he was gone forever, almost, and he didn't even know he was gone :wink
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
So boat is out of water, inside storage, with electric access. There is a Guest 10amp charger, set up with 2 batteries, one each to each engine, with the switch set at "both on". I have a digital timer that is programable over one week, and in ingcrements down to one minute. If I am figuring right, this is putting 5 amps into each battery when it is plugged in and on. I would like to set the timer to charge once a week, and am looking for a reasonable charging time. There is a very small drain on the system, a tiny LED in the AM/FM radio that stays on. It is on as long as the switch is in the on position. SO, what kind of charging time s am I looking at to keep the batteries fully charged up? On hour a week, 15 min every other day. Help! Put me in the ball park. And thanks for the input. (My batteries thank you too>) Oh, ambient temps will range from mid 20's to mid 40's.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I've always done water systems as follows:

1) Disconnect the tank and allow it to drain. Some amount of water
will remain. Don't worry about it. The tank is sort of like an ice
cube tray and 1" will not cause a problem.

2) Disconnect the input and output lines on the hot water heater
and connect them together.

3) Drain the hot water tank. Don't worry about the bit that's left.

4) Attach a piece of hose so you can draw anti-freeze into the lines
at the point where you disconnected the water tank.

5) Open each faucet one at a time, hot and cold, until antifreeze comes
out.

In the spring, the small amount of antifreeze is easily removed. Also, by
running antifreeze and allowing it to drain out of the boat, you've cover
your drain hoses.

If you have engine water going to a coil in the tank on say an R-25, remember
to pump antifreeze through the coils. I've nearly forgot to do that a
time or two.

Mike
 
Oh, remember to do the water system ASAP. It is really hard to deal with
a slushed up water system. An outboard tilted down doesn't have water
in it, and it takes a while to freeze an inboard. But, water systems slush
up easily and then you can't pump antifreeze through the lines.

Mike
 
drjohn71a":2drh6iyo said:
Well, what do the guys in Alaska say we should do if we leave our boat in the water? It seems leaving the leg down in the water could lead to more damage than leaving it tipped up to me.

Anybody know the best thing to do?

John
Click to expand...

ICE1.jpg

:wink: :wink:Up bad Down good & The kicker does not have thru hub exhaust
 
Is that Ice solid right up to the boat hull? It looks like there are walking tracks right alongside the outside of that hull. :? Isn't the ice really hard on the hull? I can't imagine leaving my boat in that environment. But then I like my indoor storage when I have it, and covered when I don't.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
hardee":p7hzr8fr said:
Is that Ice solid right up to the boat hull? It looks like there are walking tracks right alongside the outside of that hull. :? Isn't the ice really hard on the hull? I can't imagine leaving my boat in that environment. But then I like my indoor storage when I have it, and covered when I don't.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Click to expand...

That is what you call being one day late to retrieve the boat!
Did not harm a thing. Sat there all of March 07. The only thing that happened to the hull was some of the 5yr old bottom paint came off with the ice :mrgreen: :beer
 
Thanks, TSTurn for the photograph... I don't think mine will get that bad...

What the locals say is that deeper water slips in the Oklahoma area don't cause much freeze damage... mine runs 12 to 18 feet deep. The old guys say under 6 foot freezes up pretty deep since there's not much warmer water underneath and little circulation, but that deeper areas do not freeze since the cold water drops down and warmer water comes up and there is a lot of warmer water underneath.

BIG WARNING FOR BAITWELL OWNERS, ESP. TOMCAT!!

I understand that, if you shut off the thru hull, the water in the pipes above the shutoff is likely to freeze and burst the structures there. I checked out the livewell pump for the TomCat and it is mounted DIRECTLY ON the thru hull fitting, so no way to drain the pump! So, I took the hose off the pump to allow the water between the pump and the baiwell to drain off... GUESS WHAT? The little, cheap, plastic livewell pump is mounted BELOW THE WATERLINE! Water came gushing into the hull! The only thing between a sunken boat and the water was that cheap tiny pump and one pipe clamp and the baitwell hose.

So, winter or not, I'd advise keeping that baitwell thru-hull closed except when actually using the baitwell. I removed the hose at the pump to drain the water in the line and ran the pump a few seconds to throw out most of the water in the impeller and left the thru hull fitting closed.

Also, re: HOT WATER TANK DRAINING - I found that that drain faucet does not completely drain the tank. The Cold Water intake line holds about 1/2 gallon extra that has to be drained by removing the hose to it. Note that a bypass line alone will not drain this cold water inlet area!!!

John

John
 
John, how about the fish boxes and their macerator pumps? My TC is out of the water on a lift. Should I dump a gallon of antifreeze in each box and run the macerators? Also, how about the bilge pumps? A gallon or so in each of those?

Haven't looked at the water heater. Mine is under the helm seat. Not sure if there is a bypass on it or not or if I can even get to the inlet/outlet or if there's a drain on it. Will go down and look today. It was 68 here yesterday and supposed to be 57 today. It will get down to about 15-20 a couple of times though.

Charlie
 
What I'd like to find out is how to drain the last remaining water out of the lower unit of an outboard at a dock so that I can leave the motor tilted up out of the water to avoid algal growth on the lower unit.

We've always been told to leave the unit down in the water because it's warmer than the freezing air on some nights that might freeze the little bit of remaining water in the unit and crack the housing.

What I'm wondering is that if

1. some compressed air could be used to blow out the water that remains after tilting up, or if

2. some antifreeze could be added to the system, perhaps through the tell-tail ("pee hole") that would force the remaining water out and protect the unit from freezing.

Any ideas?

Joe. :idea :thup :teeth
 
Joe
What if you got a plastic 30 gallon trash can and put it around the lower unit while the unit is trimmed up. Lower the unit into the water. The plastic can should keep sea water out while the lower unit can drain and then raise the unit up and remove the trash can with any water that has drained out of the lower unit.

Allan
 
Jeanie P":vr875m23 said:
Joe
What if you got a plastic 30 gallon trash can and put it around the lower unit while the unit is trimmed up. Lower the unit into the water. The plastic can should keep sea water out while the lower unit can drain and then raise the unit up and remove the trash can with any water that has drained out of the lower unit.

Allan
Click to expand...

Allan-

That's a great idea! :idea

At first I was wondering what the upward buoyant force on the trash can would be and how difficult it would be to put it on and off.

A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs, 30 gallons would weigh 240lbs, the can would be maybe 2/3 submerged, so a guess at the buoyant force would be 160 lbs, which the electrical/hydraulic trim system should be able to handle easily.

I'll go out and measure a couple of trash cans and give it a try if the measurements seem to be right!

I'm thinking I might have to bolt a handle to the side of the trash can to facilitate putting it on and off.

Another idea would be to put a trash bag over the lower unit and just leave it back down in the water, as algae would only grow on the outside of the bag.

Thanks!

Anybody else interested in trying this???

Merry Christmas!

Joe. :teeth :thup :xlol
 
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