2003 25 Cruiser, $50,000 (New York City, NY)

Transom is cracked.

Moisture reading in transom is off the charts... indicates the damage is more than just cosmetic.

Note that most boat photos look shiny and 'well-maintainted' in a wide-shot. Unless you see well-photographed close-ups, don't believe what you see in an ad on the web. It would be nice, though, for a seller to be honest about the condition of his boat.

My opinion is that the boat has taken a beating, run hard and left wet, and has suffered as a consequence.

Other clues that this boat is not a great deal include- corrosion, Expired Reg: Boat was not used in 2006, Chip in bottom on stb. chine, Moisture in Transom, Oil Filter (maybe Tightened w/ wrench?), Cracked Deck, Tide lines in bilge, Loose electrical board, refrigerator loose in frame, Unsecured Hose to thru-hull, Antenna loose, Crack in deck Port fwd, Crack in roof.

I, for one, wouldn't want to have to rebuild a soft transom... but all boats are projects for someone.

I have added a few photos in the "For Sale section". Hope that helps.
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Hey onemore. Just sent you a PM. Please respond. Can't find the pictures you say you posted.

Sounds like you did a survey on the boat. All the way from WA... :?:

Charlie
 
Found the pictures. Did you inspect the boat in NY/NJ?

Charlie
 
For any of the rest of you having trouble finding the photos of this boat, they are on THIS page of the "Photos of Boats for Sale" that goes with the boat ads.

Photos 3-7 are from the boat owner, and photos 8-12 are from onemorebythesea.

Nice investigative work, onemorebythesea!

Joe.
 
Sea Wolf":xbuffsa0 said:
Photos 3-7 are from the boat owner, and photos 8-12 are from onemorebythesea.

Nice investigative work, onemorebythesea!

Joe.
Click to expand...

Joe, I agree, thanks... I would not have been skeptical had ombts told me how/when he got the info. He may have saved someone a big headache. Maybe the owner will correct his offering!

Charlie
 
Certainly interesting photos and comments. A crack like that is not all unusual in C Dories. There should have been more glass over this area, but many boats do this same lamination technique on a transom (including Grady White). The moister meter reading high next to metal fittings can easily be spurious. Anytime you put metal or even copper bottom paint next to a moisture meter the readings will be high. Probably the only way to really be sure about this is to take a sample core--and I don't know if the seller would allow this.

If the crack in the transom had been down at the bottom of the motor mount then I think it would suggest a soft transom. Does the transom deflect when you put weight on the lower leg, with the motor in the "up" position?.

There are ultrasonic techniques to establish if there really is a probelm--but most surveyors don't have the tools.
 
I certainly believe the owner owes us some clarification on this boat.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
OK, we have some photos of a questionable transom. Up close shots don't show which boat it is on.
Who is onemorebythesea? Why hasn't Frequent Sea answered these charges.
There is more going on here than meets the eye.
 
Too early in the game to make any kind of judgment call. Moisture meters are not much good close to a metal fitting (Bob is spot on)... boat needs a good survey by a competent surveyor who KNOWS C-Dory construction. With no external or internal damage at the transom I wouldn't be in an early panic. That's a young boat, and altho neglect isn't good it certainly isn't life-threatening. Wish it was closer!!

Dusty
 
Milehog":38usjk2r said:
There is more going on here than meets the eye.
Click to expand...

I checked the profiles of both, Milehog. It does get curiouser and curiouser. Both users are new and have made a total of 10 posts between them. ALL in this thread. onemorebythesea located in Port Townsend WA, Frequent Sea in New Jersey.

Anybody try calling Frequent Sea?

Don
 
Heavy stuff, folks. Sorry that I don't troll your site all day long waiting for people to charge me with fraud. Some of us actually work. Wow.

I had friends and family interested in going in on the boat. We like the CD. I've shared many a dock in the San Juans and Gulf Islands with C-dories, and appreciate their lines. We like them so much that at the time it even sounded like a good idea to buy a boat in NY and ship it out west.

We had a survey done. If you don't believe me, fine. Go visit the boat. Whatever. If you want to spend countless hours hypothesizing about a boat you don't know or haven't spent money on by hiring a certified surveyor, fine. Knock yourselves out. I put up a wide shot of the boat. So did the owner. Our photos have a date. If you actually think someone is working that hard to post fake photos of a cracked transom just for the sake of creating a commotion, then perhaps you should go work for Homeland Security.

There's nothing "curious" about it. Of course I'm new on the site, and a new poster. Because I don't own a cdory yet. Is that so hard to figure out?

My motivation was simple. I was just pissed off that the nice shiny photos combined with the attitude of the seller, to me, misrepresented the state of the boat. I think that's both wrong and a little stupid. So I concluded that it was only fair to post some additional info about it, if for no other reason than to save someone else having high hopes for a nice boat and then having them dashed upon closer inspection. It seemed more relevant that some of the other posts that said something along the lines of
"what a deal", not having actually seen it.

We didn't like the look of the survey, and have walked away from it. As you may note in my earlier email, I gave an opinion. That was my opinion, that the boat appeared to have not been looked after. I too, was surprised, given that it is such a new boat. But so it is. If you think otherwise, fine.

Nothing is 'going on here'. Jesus Christ. A guy tries to help and gets run over. I'm not the bad guy here.
 
Whoa! onemorebythesea take it easy. No one is accusing you of fraud. We're just trying to figure out what's going on. This is the internet, after all.
We appreciate the heads up on the boat's condition. It does help that you shared how you got this information.
You gotta see this from our vantage as well. This whole thing is kinda out of the blue, curious even.
If the boat seller dosen't speak up that will be telling.
 
oemorebythesea – first let me welcome you to the site. I am in your neighborhood and maybe we will cross paths sometime. If so I would hope we could be friends.

You will see that I had several comments on this thread about this boat. They were based on the information supplied by the seller and the photos available. Until such time as I have other information, I consider them accurate. If you would spend a little time reading the threads/post on this site, you will notice we are a close nit group and support all members.

Frequent Sea seamed honest and sincere with his post and I have no reason to doubt it. Anyone interested in the boat should look at it before buying it. Your first post came from nowhere with no other information other than the boat was not what we thought it may be. Had you provided more information, there would not be this controversy. We have had other new members try to create controversy and that was a possibility with your first post.

Thank you for staying with the thread and clearing up the question from your first couple of post. While the boat may not be for you, it may be for another member. Had I known what you found, I may not have said it was a super deal, but as I said, I can only go on the information I have before me.

Again thank you and welcome aboard.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
As a side note, unless that crack was caused by an accident (and from the rest of the hull it doesn't appear that way) it should still be covered under the 5 year hull warranty. Given the way these hulls are built, it's unlikely that water has spread very far but regardless, if it needs a transom repair due to damage not caused by operator error, a 2003 is still within warranty.
 
For some reason, the edit button is missing so I couldn't edit the above post. But I wanted to add...

I'm not sure if the warranty is tranferable but at the very least one could have the current owner get that repaired under warranty (again as long as the cause was not operator error).
 
Roger, there is no "edit" feature in the boats for sale forum. It was done purposely by the site managers. Forget the reason but it made sense when I first saw it.

Charlie
 
I can understand rejecting the boat based on what this person understands of the survey. But one also has to understand the survey business and boat building (and I realize we have at least one marine surveyor on the forum). Surveyors are not all equal. Some have more expertise in areas than others--"certification" there are several organizations which offer "certification"--or at least memebership.

Just the high "moisture meter readings" and the "crack" in the transom on this boat would not be a deal killer for me. The "crack" appears to be under the protective trim, and is where the hull and deck are joined. This may not be a structural issue--and the surveyor should attempt to determine this. The "high" moisture meter reading there does not resolve the issue.

I would like to see the owner's response--and also a response from the factory about warantee issue--I also believe that this should be repaired under warantee.
 
onemorebythesea":xnpd87ar said:
There's nothing "curious" about it. Of course I'm new on the site, and a new poster. Because I don't own a cdory yet. Is that so hard to figure out?

My motivation was simple. I was just pissed off that the nice shiny photos combined with the attitude of the seller, to me, misrepresented the state of the boat.

Nothing is 'going on here'. Jesus Christ. A guy tries to help and gets run over. I'm not the bad guy here.
Click to expand...

No, you're just a pissed off potential buyer who in retrospect clarified the original message with enough facts that the "red flags" became logical and consistent, causing me anyway, to believe you were both venting frustration and disclosing facts the seller was unwilling to do online.

Now that you've vented everything, take a deep breath, relax, and join us for a virtual beer. :beer Life is too short to keep yer skivvies bunched up like that. :mrgreen:

Don (who hopes he spelled everything correctly because he can't edit)
 
10:35 PM and I check up on the old c-brats site (thanks whomever sent the heads up e-mail) and there is quite the controversy. First, let me say thanks to all those who called for some evenheadedness about the whole situation. As is often the case the internet often serves as a forum for people to vent their frustrations. That said . . .

I have never indicated that the boat was a cherry or in excellent condition. She is not and I never told any interested buyers that she was. Fact is I am a first time boat owner who doesn't know how to do most of the maintenece issues myself. I did pay the service department to do regualar maintenence and as is the case in NJ gave the manager frequent presents in an effort to garner some of the attention from the giant yachts and such. I told them to look it over every year and anything that needed fixing to fix and send me the bill.

As far as me posting only a few post on the site I did only find it when I was looking for comps when I was interested in selling. I am sad that is the case since it seems like a well done message board with a good community of people. Perhaps if I had found it earlier then I would have been better prepared with maintenence and such.

Onemorebythesea is obviously purturbed. He made a gamble and spent money on a survey then decided that he didn't want to buy the boat. Can't really blame him. However, he gave me no indication about why or what the results of the survey were. I had never had a previous survey done so whatever it was that he said he found was as much a suprise to him as to me. I invite you to post the survey here and save some other fellow boat owners the same disapointment as you had.

I in no way want to mislead buyers. Of course you want to get the most from your boat when you sell it but I am more interested in giving a buyer a fair deal as I would want. I want to sell the boat (at least I think I still do she is a c-dory so of course I have second thoughts all the time) for a fair price. I recognized she is not a cherry and I thought the 15,000 difference in the comps I found would more than make up for it and sell well. If not, I am happy to take offers of less than asking price for what knowledgeable people consider a fair price.

If she doesn't sell well I guess there could be worse things than owning a c-dory! I'll put her away for a few years all shrink wrapped up and hope that I can again move back by the sea and enjoy her. Anyways, thanks again to all the people calling for a fair shot. Hope this suffices to answer the questions. If not, I will do my best to answer them here. Sorry, to onemorebythesea for your disapointment and hope everyone has a happy new year.
 
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