An Inquiry into cbrat attitudes towards fuel prices...

M

MilesandMiles

New member
I've been thinking about this for a while hoping to decide my own attitudes toward it and wanted to present this same general question to the group.

What cost per gallon of fuel would need to be reached in order for you to say, "well, I can no longer afford to use my boat as I'd like to" or perhaps more extreme, "I can no longer afford to run my boat at all."

One reason I'm asking myself this question is a good friend here in Duluth recently bought a sail boat. We've been kicking around the pros and cons of our similar but different approaches toward spending time on water. For example: we both have adventurous plans to visit Isle Royale this summer. For me it will be a matter of picking a good window of days, trailering my C-Dory up the North Shore (at 15mpg with my Tacoma) then blasting across the 15 or so miles to the closest Isle Royale landfall. How much I do under power from there is open to many energy expending factors as well I suppose. Of course for that luxury I will have to carry a relatively large amount of fuel, which by that time of year will most likely be over $4 bucks a gallon...etc etc. He on the other hand will have to take more time off his job to sail from the Duluth area, heading his 30 foot Pearson up the North shore (not such a bad gig IMHO) then more time to swing over to Isle Royale, from there the same basic situation applies as above, only he can use the wind--granting the winds cooperate. I should add, his boat does have a small inboard engine and limited fuel cell size which I believe pushes his boat around 6-7 knots. It is gas (not diesel)

My buddy has come close at times (in my weaker moments) of convincing me to sell my cruiser and get a small sailboat, and this appeals to my survivalist, frugal'ist, purest side (though I know even less about sailing than I've learned about cruising thus far) This is often compounded by the quasi-radical, survivalist circle of people I tend to keep company with. Their attitudes range from slow spiral into an energy starved world...to the planet is on the verge of global economic collapse/police state where gas is priced out of reach for all but the elites and military. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle by keeping one foot in both camps.

I guess to stream-line this question down a little: at the end of the day, aren't our admittedly wonderful boats still at the mercy of global oil demands and the prices/values set on that valuable resource? Would $5 bucks a gallon keep it on the trailer? $10 bucks a gallon?

Brenton
 
I don't know if it helps but the last time we went on an extended cruise for 3+ weeks up the BC coast when fuel was nearly $5/gal we felt really bad about it until we got home and realised that the Kennel bill for two German Shepherds dwarfed the fuel cost. Our food bill was also higher than the cost of the gas for the trip.

'pends how you spends... objective is to enjoy.

M
 
At $5.00 it's still a go. If it reaches $10.00 I guess I would have to give the boat away. What's left of the boat market would be completely gone.

Brent
 
Hi Brenton,

There are quite a few of us who came to this boat after (and while) owning sailboats. They are both viable means of transportation on the water. While a sailboat can move with the "free" power of the wind, there can be too much, too little, or the wrong direction of wind. That is why almost all sailboats (except small daysailors) have aux power. And, those sails are not "free;" to keep the boat efficient, the sails have to be in good shape.

You have undoubtedly heard that every boat is a compromise. If I were going to attempt to cross an ocean, my C-Dory is most certainly not the boat for that task - no possible way to carry enough fuel. Sailboats even smaller, like Potter 19s, Montgomery 17s, and the like have made great distance journeys. Those boats will be limited by their hull speed (OK, they might plane a bit going down a BIG wave)... it's gonna be a LONG trip. :roll:

Your C-Dory has speed options... at the compromise of using more fuel to cover the same distance. You've also heard: time is money. Slow down and you will spend less. At hull speed, the sailboat may be a bit more fuel efficient (when they need to motor into the wind), but it won't be much different.

What you have in spades over your friend's Pearson: an enclosed helm. When the temp drops and the wind howls, I'm guessing your friend would pay a bit extra to be able to run the boat out of that weather. When he goes "below" in his boat, it may have a bit more room, but it is like being in a cave; you have a great view while in your cabin.

$5 per gallon for fuel? Plenty of us have paid that while cruising in Canada in the past few years. Many of us now cruise at a slower speed, often being able to double our miles per gallon. $10 per gallon? That would put a big damper on my boat enjoyment. Everyone's billfold has a different holding capacity. :wink:

Even your frugality (is that a word?) allows you to feel good about driving your Metro. Many of us feel that way about our boats. Another way to look at it isn't in miles per gallon, but in gallons per hour... slow your boat down and you will be able to get the fuel burn to one gallon per hour... and still be on the water.

I'm more concerned about the effect of rising fuel prices on the economy. The last big tank came after rapidly rising fuel prices... seems to me to be the way things happen. People quit spending on other things and our economy spirals down.

Being on the boat is my escape from the rat race. It's cheaper than therapy or bail. If fuel prices or availability force me back to a sailboat, it's going to have to be a pilothouse... I'm spoiled.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I have had several sailboats, the last being a 33 foot Hunter. To go 60 miles in the sailboat it is a 11 hour motor. Usually the wind is on the nose or not existent so you have to run the engine which was a 13 hp diesel. I usually got 18 mpg on diesel. Every 3 to 5 years you have to haul out and do a bottom job which can cost $1,000 to $3,000 depending on if you do the work or you hire the work done by a boat yard. Each month I paid $200 for slip rent at a marina and my marina was one of the cheaper ones. You also have to consider the draft usually 5 feet and that limits your cruising area. You cannot sail in the canals or rivers.

Figuring the cost, the sail boat is not cheap and it takes you a long time to get there.

I love my C-Dory CHARITY. It sits in the yard with no slip fees. I can go aboard anytime quickly. I can keep a watch on it for security. I have a 150 4-stroke Suzuki outboard. If I cruise at 6 mph (sailboat speed) and get 7 mpg. I usually cruise on a plane at 16 to 18 knots and burn 3.8 mpg. If a storm is coming and I need to hurry I can run at 32 knots, but it burns lots of gas at this speed.

Figuring the cost of a sailboat at $3,500 per year (slip rent, bottom job, fuel), I am able to buy 1,000 gallons of gas and enjoy a great deal of more convenience with my C-Dory.
 
Somewhere between $6 and $10. Love the water and the C Dory but I will be on a fixed income starting this summer and all things will no longer be possible. I will not go back to work to support my boating. I too have been a bit of a minimalist in the past and lived aboard a 30' sailboat for many years. Now that I am older and rumored to be somewhat wiser I personally could get by with a 20' flicka or a 22' falmouth cutter, would actually enjoy it. Time to get someplace will no longer be an issue, changing weather conditions would not have as much effect. Just the tides and attitude would control what I do. But, and this is a big one, my wife is not of that mindset. The trip is to be gotten out of the way as quickly as possible so time can be spent exploring and looking around. And I am sure the labrador feels the same way. So, if fuel got too expensive my boating days would probably be over. Then I would have to worry about the camper, or make a choice. But I too can see those days coming.
 
Discovery":3cyatcaa said:
If it reaches $10.00 I guess I would have to give the boat away. What's left of the boat market would be completely gone.

Brent
Click to expand...

It will be fine because there won't be a US economy left, so boat prices will be moot. With the current political upheaval in the Middle East, I am worried about what the future holds. Egypt [obviously] controls the Suez Canal and with that controls a vast majority of shipping out of the region. Should the Muslim Brotherhood gain power, or an even more radical Islamic gov't form, I'm afraid $100/barrel oil will have been a "steal". Not trying to be a pessimist, but simply noting the reality of what's possibly ahead...and it's not good.
 
One of the blessings of a small cruiser is that if the fuel prices get too high, I'm thinking that with the installation of a couple of sturdy oarlocks in the gunnels of the 22' Dory, I could possibly row out into the bay. Just need to be cognizant of the tides. If I become physically unable, due to may advancing age, to row, maybe I could find some young lovelies looking for sun on their bikined bods to row Carol and I around. (Yes...it is sunny in Washington today. :hot ).

Signed, Forever the OPTIMIST,
Dave S.
 
Since we're at the mercy of big oil, supply and demand doesn't seem to hold for fuel ie: the more we use doesn't seem to lower the price any.
I'll pay whatever the price is but my range may curtail. Since we can't take our money with use when we leave this rock I intend to leave a pretty small estate behind!
If cruising my c dory brings peace and enjoyment which it does, the price is small potatoes.
George
 
I enjoy spending time on the boat at anchor or tied to a dock. If fuel prices get too high (not sure exactly what that would be) I'd still use the boat, I'd just go more slowly and stay closer to home.
 
How about putting solar panels on the boat and an electric outboard on the transom? Replace the fuel tanks with a battery bank. It might be possible to motor for a few hours for harbor or lake cruising on a weekend and let the batteries recharge during the week.
 
What cost per gallon of fuel would need to be reached in order for you to say, "well, I can no longer afford to use my boat as I'd like to" or perhaps more extreme, "I can no longer afford to run my boat at all."
Click to expand...


Pretty much no amount would stop me from boating. That being said, we purchased the CD22 to run as a trawler 99% of the time and I love the fuel mileage that we can get.

With our oldest child turning 18 this year and most likely done boating with us (after 18yrs of summer long cruising) - what price of fuel would make it worth NOT having those memories???
 
Methinks cabin fever season be upon us :lol: :lol:

Why not do like Patti & Barry and get your butts out on the water. The Sun and wind Gods are smiling for a couple of days in the PNW where we are always within a trailer ride to someplace where we can boat and if we get stuck then it's pretty easy to get home one way or another.

When I see someone ask if the new order of zodialcalistic signs affects the previous, tedious discussion about the values of Twins (Geminii) then I will know that it is Spring.

:love

M
 
As gas prices rise we will cruise less and spend more time at the slip. We love to cruise but whe also enjoy spending time on the boat at the marina. That said, ten dollars a gallon sounds amazing. But when I was younger I thought that a dollar a gallon would be a disaster. I suppose it depends on how long the price increase takes....we aren't getting any younger.
 
Grumpy":nekwf41o said:
Why not do like Patti & Barry and get your butts out on the water. The Sun and wind Gods are smiling for a couple of days in the PNW where we are always within a trailer ride to someplace where we can boat and if we get stuck then it's pretty easy to get home one way or another.
Click to expand...

If'n the weather holds this weekend, I may end up doing just that. Got Fri, Sat & Sun off, football's done, M's working all weekend...
 
The issue of fuel price is best dealt with by adjusting how I choose to use my boat.

On my 22ft Angler I have a 100 HP 4 stroke Yamaha main and a Yamaha 9.9 Thruster.

My normal mode of operation is to start both motors at the dock to make sure that they both are operational. Then I back out from the dock and get clear of the harbor with the main motor.
Once I am out of others way I shut down the main motor and run on the 9.9. At full throttle I can move the old boat along at about 9 mph and will burn about 1 gallon an hour.

I generally slow down to trolling speed shortly after clearing the harbor and at trolling speeds I will burn about 3 gallons of fuel in an 8 hr day on the water with the 9.9 motor.

I have and will use the main motor to run back in to sheltered area if the weather acts up and I need to get there in a hurry.

When I go to the Lakes to fish for trout I will take the 9.9 off of the boat and mount the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha on and run it all day long on 2 gallons or so of gas.

The biggest difference is in your mental approach as to" I'm going to go slower on the right motor for the conditions and maximumize my fuel dollars".

Gas is not cheap in rural Alaska and we are living a subsistence type life style deliberately.

I readily admit that I have had to make some major adjustments
in how I approach my use of the C-Dory.

Think about it and YOU can make some fundamental changes that will allow you to continue to enjoy your wonderful C-Dory.

The world that we are living in will require each of US to make adjustments as things change we will have to use our abilities to think and act as Inteligent Free individuals.

Mans ability to adjust to change is one of the most basic survival skills.

Time to come down off of my soap box.

Rember life is what YOU make out of it.

Regards to all,

Doug Cruickshank :beer :beer
 
If in the future the price of gasoline rises to the predicted levels, we could all form a "buyers co-op" and secretly import the "diesel outboards" that can be run on drain oil! We just need to get the shipment routed through Mexico to avoid the EPA!
 
Well I'm going to boat. The price of gas is going to really have to go up to stop me altogether. How and where I boat my change soon. In fact to an extent it has already, my kicker is my main, my main is my get home motor. But what the heck, I'm out on the water. what am I gonna do with the money I save by quiting boating, buy a prettier coffin?
 
Back
Top