This is the sixth season for our CD-25. We don't anchor much, but I believe we know how to do it with enough scope (at least 5 to 1), backing down, etc. In any wind at all, the bow swings first to one side and then the other. As the wind gets up to 10-15 knots, the swings get bigger and each one is stopped abruptly by the set anchor. Each swing ends in a jerk on the anchor rode, and in 15 knots of wind the abrupt jerk on the rode is pretty hard. This goes on continuously and would be OK except that our experience has been that the anchor sooner or later succumbs to this and starts to drag. It seems to me that the design of the boat leads to this behavior - no keel, light bow, windage forward. Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what have you done to make anchoring more secure.
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anchoring a CD-25
- Thread starter debutler
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Yep, that's known as "sailing at anchor." But I think it becomes bad at 15-20 knts. One can set a staysail/ steady sail on the aft of the boat.
We haven't lost the anchor because of the jerk at the end, but it is really unpleasant. I try to put a snubber in the rode, and pray. So far so good, so either the snubber is good or we have the right religion. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm all for it. By the way a C-Dory isn't the only boat to do this. We had a couple of sailboats which were just as good as a C-25.
Boris
We haven't lost the anchor because of the jerk at the end, but it is really unpleasant. I try to put a snubber in the rode, and pray. So far so good, so either the snubber is good or we have the right religion. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm all for it. By the way a C-Dory isn't the only boat to do this. We had a couple of sailboats which were just as good as a C-25.
Boris
Here are a few ideas to try...
We use 50' of chain; seems to do a good job of slowing down the swing.
If that isn't enough, try a second anchor. Depending on the tide swing, set it about 60º off from the other, off the bow. Bahamian moor, with an anchor off the bow, drift back as far as practical, set a second anchor, pull in on the first, tie a rolling hitch with the second onto the first... re-reading that, it sounds complicated, but really isn't. That technique will hold well in a tide change and keep your swinging circle much smaller.
Or, you can drop a small anchor off the stern, set the scope much less than the the bow rode, and let the stern anchor drag, but it will slow your swing.
Or, you can tie a bridle, by setting a line off a stern cleat, run forward to the bow anchor line and tied with a rolling hitch. Pull that line to experiment with the angle that best keeps swinging to a minimum. Fast and easy, but not recommended for overnights with a tide swing.
Or, drop the bow anchor, run a line to shore and tie off to something solid there with a stern line.
Or, put a snubber on your anchor line to keep the "snap" from bothering you.
Increase the scope to 7:1.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
We use 50' of chain; seems to do a good job of slowing down the swing.
If that isn't enough, try a second anchor. Depending on the tide swing, set it about 60º off from the other, off the bow. Bahamian moor, with an anchor off the bow, drift back as far as practical, set a second anchor, pull in on the first, tie a rolling hitch with the second onto the first... re-reading that, it sounds complicated, but really isn't. That technique will hold well in a tide change and keep your swinging circle much smaller.
Or, you can drop a small anchor off the stern, set the scope much less than the the bow rode, and let the stern anchor drag, but it will slow your swing.
Or, you can tie a bridle, by setting a line off a stern cleat, run forward to the bow anchor line and tied with a rolling hitch. Pull that line to experiment with the angle that best keeps swinging to a minimum. Fast and easy, but not recommended for overnights with a tide swing.
Or, drop the bow anchor, run a line to shore and tie off to something solid there with a stern line.
Or, put a snubber on your anchor line to keep the "snap" from bothering you.
Increase the scope to 7:1.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
A
Anonymous
Guest
We simply drop a stern anchor, no scope, let er drag.
We pray too but you may get some guff for mentioning that here:lol:
Mike
We pray too but you may get some guff for mentioning that here:lol:
Mike
Many styles and sizes of boats sail at anchor.
As JamesSDTX says, two anchors pretty well reduces the swing radius.
Most of the time I tie a bridle - a line with a loop over the anchor line, pulled and tied aft on one side or the other. What that does is to keep one side of your boat to the wind and you "sail" with shorter, weaker bursts in only one direction when the wind gusts. If a storm comes up, you can quickly untie the bridle from the aft quarter cleat and then you're back to a good, single anchor for storm condtitions.
Anchors off the stern are fine many times, that is until that ONE time when you end up with an anchored stern against a huge wave or wake that swamps the cockpit and could disable the batteries and even sink the boat.
I know many experienced operators use stern anchors, but be very very careful if you do that!
John
As JamesSDTX says, two anchors pretty well reduces the swing radius.
Most of the time I tie a bridle - a line with a loop over the anchor line, pulled and tied aft on one side or the other. What that does is to keep one side of your boat to the wind and you "sail" with shorter, weaker bursts in only one direction when the wind gusts. If a storm comes up, you can quickly untie the bridle from the aft quarter cleat and then you're back to a good, single anchor for storm condtitions.
Anchors off the stern are fine many times, that is until that ONE time when you end up with an anchored stern against a huge wave or wake that swamps the cockpit and could disable the batteries and even sink the boat.
I know many experienced operators use stern anchors, but be very very careful if you do that!
John
Thanks for the replys. We use the Delta that came with the boat with about 20 ft. of chain, then nylon 3-strand rode. We tried a stern anchor once, in addition to the Delta off the bow. That was the night the wind shifted and increased so that at 3 in the morning we were broadside to it and dragging through the anchorage. Sounds like a snubber and/or a bridle setting the boat at an angle to the wind may be worth a try. A steadying sail is probably the best solution but is more of a project.
A quick response, since I don't have much battery power left: We occasionally use the bridle described by DrJohn. Occasionally use the second anchor, dropped at the extreme of the swing--but not a full Bahama moor, which is anchors set at 180 degrees. Stern anchor in S. Calif. where that is the convention.
We are using the Manson Supreme on the CD 25, and so far it sets faster than the Delta and holds very well (see my tests). I may buy a second one for the Tom Cat--the setting is withing feet. The Ronca is basically the same anchor, but more expensive.
We are using the Manson Supreme on the CD 25, and so far it sets faster than the Delta and holds very well (see my tests). I may buy a second one for the Tom Cat--the setting is withing feet. The Ronca is basically the same anchor, but more expensive.
Thanks Dr. Bob. I am liking what I have been hearing about your anchor choice. I think the shape of the Manson Supreme, or Roncha or the ultimate make sense. Glad to hear your report on the practical use end.
I don't have a lot of experience with this, but on any moving water, I would be quit nervous with both ends tied down. I personally like the idea of a bridal and a snubber. I have 70 feet of chain so the snubber would decrease the abruptness of the shock on waves or swings.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
I don't have a lot of experience with this, but on any moving water, I would be quit nervous with both ends tied down. I personally like the idea of a bridal and a snubber. I have 70 feet of chain so the snubber would decrease the abruptness of the shock on waves or swings.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
While I have not used them, there is a sliding weight that you can let down the anchor rode after setting that lowers the angle of pull on the anchor and absorbs shock by forcing the shock load to lift the weight before significant loosening forces reach the anchor itself.
You can search for this item on the internet. I don't offhand remember the name,but it might be easier than a snubber and, by letting the weight out about halfway, you 'd be shortening the range of "sailing" quite a bit and the shock of direction change would lessen also.
Here is one version site: http://www.anchorrider.com/index.htm
John
You can search for this item on the internet. I don't offhand remember the name,but it might be easier than a snubber and, by letting the weight out about halfway, you 'd be shortening the range of "sailing" quite a bit and the shock of direction change would lessen also.
Here is one version site: http://www.anchorrider.com/index.htm
John
Just curious: Looking to get an idea of average chain size used by those using a signicant length of it, like over 25'. If there's a windlass the gypsy dictates the size of the links? In the case of a windlass I assume a rope to chain splice may be required?
On the sailing at anchor subject: I guess C-Dorys don't normally have bow chocks (I may be wrong about this) but if chocks are available it might help to rig a bridle through them with rolling hitches on the rode, taking the strain off the rode itself. This has worked on sailboats I've had.
On the sailing at anchor subject: I guess C-Dorys don't normally have bow chocks (I may be wrong about this) but if chocks are available it might help to rig a bridle through them with rolling hitches on the rode, taking the strain off the rode itself. This has worked on sailboats I've had.
Here's another idea, which I have only read about but have not tried (Bob, any thoughts?): use Yale Cordage's Brait for the anchor rode. It apparently has much more stretch capability than ordinary anchor rode line.
Warren
Warren
I have often used the technique of sliding a weight down the anchor line. The weight is called either a kellet or a sentinel. It has the same overall effect of having a lot more chain out there.
On my sailboat I secured three, six pound diving weights together (taking wraps of line through the openings on both ends) with 1/4 inch nylon line and attached the whole rig to a large brass snap hook which was, in turn, tied to fifty feet of 1/4 inch nylon line wrapped on a plastic device used by divers to hold line.
To deploy it, I would set the anchor and slide the kellet/sentinel down the anchor rode by means of the snap hook. The light line is used to retrieve the kellet/sentinel before raising the anchor.
It is a very effective technique.
Nick
"Valkyrie"
On my sailboat I secured three, six pound diving weights together (taking wraps of line through the openings on both ends) with 1/4 inch nylon line and attached the whole rig to a large brass snap hook which was, in turn, tied to fifty feet of 1/4 inch nylon line wrapped on a plastic device used by divers to hold line.
To deploy it, I would set the anchor and slide the kellet/sentinel down the anchor rode by means of the snap hook. The light line is used to retrieve the kellet/sentinel before raising the anchor.
It is a very effective technique.
Nick
"Valkyrie"
Spike,
Each windlass has chain size(s) and types for which it is specifically designed.
Yes, there is an attachment of chain to rope involved and some windlasses are more finicky than others about how smooth that transition needs to be.
You can buy pre-made anchor lines with rope/chain already connected per that manufacturer's specs. Dr. Bob of Thataway has posted photos of a good way to taper that attachment, I believe.
John
Each windlass has chain size(s) and types for which it is specifically designed.
Yes, there is an attachment of chain to rope involved and some windlasses are more finicky than others about how smooth that transition needs to be.
You can buy pre-made anchor lines with rope/chain already connected per that manufacturer's specs. Dr. Bob of Thataway has posted photos of a good way to taper that attachment, I believe.
John
Although we carried a 30 lb lead Kellet, we never used it in thousands of miles of cruising. It can induce chafe on the rode, it is another "string" to foul, and although it might decrease the surge in some conditions, in ultimate conditions the chain/rode will be bar tight. So we all have our opinions--and what works for each of us is what we do.
I use 1/4" HT chain on the C Dories/Tom Cats, that is what the Windlasses are calibrated for. We use 50 feet on both boats. We back it with 300 feet of 1/2 " nylon 3 strand. We have not had any slippage problems.
We have used braided lines. Not sure about the Yale one, but the others we have used (Marlow, Sampson) had less stretch than 3 strand.
Agree that a snubber is very good to use. We have not been using one on this cruise, just because there has never been any significant load on the anchor--mostly calm nights in protected coves. If there is any wind etc, I would use the snubber every time.
The extra line to an amidships cleat is not much of a bother--and will help the sailing--but it is not a perfect solution.
I use 1/4" HT chain on the C Dories/Tom Cats, that is what the Windlasses are calibrated for. We use 50 feet on both boats. We back it with 300 feet of 1/2 " nylon 3 strand. We have not had any slippage problems.
We have used braided lines. Not sure about the Yale one, but the others we have used (Marlow, Sampson) had less stretch than 3 strand.
Agree that a snubber is very good to use. We have not been using one on this cruise, just because there has never been any significant load on the anchor--mostly calm nights in protected coves. If there is any wind etc, I would use the snubber every time.
The extra line to an amidships cleat is not much of a bother--and will help the sailing--but it is not a perfect solution.
This is a decent paper on anchoring from Yale.
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/anchoring_tech.pdf
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/anchoring_tech.pdf
The "paper" is basically an advertisement for Yale's Brait. I have not used this product, so have no first hand experience. But several questions come to mind. First is abrasion resistance, second is how well it works in the self tailing windlasses which we use?
Yes, shock absorption is important, and that is why I suggest a snubber of light line in heavy conditions. This transfers abrasion as well as elastic shock absorbing ability to the short, replaciable piece of thinner line, which can be protected from abrasion with plastic tubing or small diameter fire hose slipped over the rope.
On the other hand, how often will you submit a C Dory to 900 or 1200 lbs of working load on the anchor? How many anchors will hold in that load?
I stick to what I know--and that is 3 strand nylon.
For a good book on anchoring, I suggest Earl Hinz's "Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" It is somewhat dated because of newer anchors--and perhaps by newer rodes--but had some very excellent suggestions, and should be in every serious boater's library.
Yes, shock absorption is important, and that is why I suggest a snubber of light line in heavy conditions. This transfers abrasion as well as elastic shock absorbing ability to the short, replaciable piece of thinner line, which can be protected from abrasion with plastic tubing or small diameter fire hose slipped over the rope.
On the other hand, how often will you submit a C Dory to 900 or 1200 lbs of working load on the anchor? How many anchors will hold in that load?
I stick to what I know--and that is 3 strand nylon.
For a good book on anchoring, I suggest Earl Hinz's "Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" It is somewhat dated because of newer anchors--and perhaps by newer rodes--but had some very excellent suggestions, and should be in every serious boater's library.