Any cons to camper back?

T

thechadmiller

New member
All the nice things about getting a camper canvas back on my C-22 are pretty obvious living in the PNW.

I was curious if there are any disadvantages? Like, getting on and off, docking, towing? Would a more simple Bimini make more sense?

thanks.
 
The biggest disadvantage is that a camper back costs $2-3K to have one made.

A bimini can be had for a couple hundred $.
 
Camper back with stainless tubing and good quality Sunbrella and zip open windows with screens will indeed run $3000 plus. Mine was that much back in 2002. It will keep the whole cockpit bone dry if you keep your boat in the water though. I never once regretted going with the full camper enclosure. Mine lasted the 11 years I owned the boat and was in good condition when I sold her. It did not hamper entry or exit because I had snaps on the cabin roof rear overhang. Easy on and off from either side. I suppose you could ask your canvas guy or gal if it’s posible to make a Bimini that they could add side curtains to later if desired.
 
Putting it on. Taking it off. Storing it. Storing it without damage. Getting on/off the boat. We would use it more in winter etc. We have usd it a few times when the wind picked up.
 
Not at all difficult to add a camper back curtains to a quality Bimini. I had Harbor Custom Canvas in Long Beach, CA. do that to my first 22. As I recollect I didn't have screens made, just the clear windows. About $1200 at that time, but I had been a long time customer, which may have made some difference. For my Tom Cat the outstanding camper back without screens was over $4500. It had free standing Bimini, with 4 bows of 1" SS. We used Sunbrella Plus and high quality window material. We had a 2' wide section which would zip out for boarding. My current 25 Bimini also has the first 18" which will zip out, (zipper in front and back, with velcro to seal, and make watertight.)

I bought a Camper Canvas from King for my first 25 ($2500)--it was poorly made, and I was not happy. My 2nd 22 had a King Camper canvas, and it was well made and a quality product. It may depend on who does the sewing and what the shop's policy is.

My current 25 was advertised with "full Camper Canvas"--when I got there, it had full screens only. No way to keep the water out. Building on an idea I got from Mark( Marco Flamingo), I made an entire set of windows/enclosure, with 30 MIL. clear Vinyl (least expensive, very flexible), I used ShelterRite, which is an 18 Oz vinyl boat cover material, with a Polyester Scrim weave. Very strong and totally water proof. I attached it with Common Sense Fasteners to the upper part of the zip in screen panels. Along the over taping edges I also used common sense fasteners. So far it seems fine to leave the lower edge free, inside of the snaps of the screens. However it would only take couple of hours to add snaps to the bottom if necessary.

The total cost was less than $500, Including enough fabric to make a cover for my Honda EU 2200i and a large rain fly to go over the entire foredeck, so I can keep the center window and forward hatch open in a heavy rain storm. The cost included a better 1/8" punch, a better commercial grade snap fastener anvil and flare tool, a common sense fastener grommet punch, hard rubber cutting block, and a pair of 8" quality shears. (All of these were about $100, and all that was necessary)- The entire camper "canvas" was glued, including to the windows with HH 66 Vinyl glue. It took over less than half the time it would have taken to sew the camper canvas, and was significantly cheaper. (seeing I already had the screens). Disadvantage, is that the screens have to go up first, then the water proof enclosure goes inside of the screens. Advantage--it really is water proof and I took the waterproof enclosure all the way back to include the splash well.! This same technique could be used with a good Bimini--but probably you would want to re-inforce the edges for the Common Sense Fasteners--and having the "zip out" windows or smiley faces would be difficult, if not impossible. we never used the smiley faces or zip out windows. We would throw the sides up over the top of the Bimini. I made adjustable straps, with snaps which will hold the sides over the top.

With the current setup--I can either strap the curtains over the top, or putting the curtains up or down, only takes a couple of minutes. I will do a tutorial on what I did as a part of the "Thataway" update.
 
biggest disadvantage I've run across - it gets in the way when you're fishing.

otherwise, I've never once regretted getting one and use it most times out.

jd
 
We don't have a Camper Back on our boat but they do look like they would make fishing more difficult. One more thing to maintain and you have to put more holes in your boat.
 
Done right, I don’t see downsides to a camper back. They can be stowed against the house to be out of the way for cockpit activities like fishing. It’s nice to have shade and to have extra dry space.

One thing we and our canvas shop missed was not having zippered access through the top. When you’re at a dock, it’s great to be able to step in and out of the boat without getting on hands and knees, or without unsnapping from the cabin roof. We missed that feature.
 
Many of the Bimini tops have an "awning rail" extrusion in aluminum or plastic, which is screwed to the aft upper edge of cabin house. There will a a"bolt rope" which slides into the awning rail--and there should be a zipper between the bolt rope; piece attached to the Aft pilot house roof. In our current boat the small (about 2" wide for and aft) Sunbrella is attached to the bolt rope, and then has a zipper to the first panel of the Bimini. This same bolt rope, Sunbrella & Zipper, also attaches the forward end of the Slant back cockpit cover.
 
To me Steve (Wandering Sagebrush) hit the big consideration.

Entering and leaving the boat can be quite a bit more difficult depending on how the camper back is made. My camper-back has the canvas "bimni" top held up by the "hoop" at the back with another "hoop" rising to the center of the top from the rear hoop. To get on or off the boat you unzip the top canvas from the back of the boat top/ bolt rope as Bob described earlier. That opens a big hole overhead that allows you to exit by climbing the steps while standing upright.

Some camper tops have a tube extending from the back of the boat top to the rear. To enter or exit you MUST duck under that bar. Sort of like doing the "Limbo" dance, but on a boat/ dock/ dink. My boat has the first kind but at some gatherings I've tried to enter the other kind and find it much more difficult to enter or exit than my boat. To enter or exit you must crawl which especially difficult if you are a tall person. When docking for example, I drive and the Admiral "hooks" a cleat on the dock while I bring the boat to a stop. She has unzipped the canvas top from the back of the cabin top as "prep" as we approach the dock. I can put the boat in nutral, go to the rear and step on the dock in 3 steps and be on the dock in about 3 seconds with fore and aft dock lines in my hands and have complete control of the boat. I'd think doing the "limbo dance" for me would be a 10 or 15 second chore. If the wind is blowing you off the dock that may be take too long to get on the dock and control the boat.

I've asked the owners with "limbo dance tops" how they survive and most look at me with a blank stare. They bought the boat with the rigid camper back and don't understand what they don't have. For me, if I were buying a another or a new boat the easy opening top allowing for normal upright climbing and standing would be a MUST have. Even professionals don't always understand. This spring at the Florida gathering a "canvas" maker from a local dealer attended. He apparently only does the hard top type canvas camper backs and when I asked about getting on and off he gave me the blank stare. I guess he likes doing he Limbo but I sure don't when in a hurry or even when not in a hurry.

Chuck
 
Like everything else it all depends on how you use your boat. If you trailer your boat I’d say no camper top because you’d have to put it up and take it down often. (As you would a Bimini if you care about it) If you keep your boat in a slip for the season it’s a nice addition that enables you to enjoy cozy, rainy weekends aboard for you wish and allows more use of the cockpit. I had a mooring cover too but seldom used it because of the pooling problem no matter how many props I used. As I said before I had mine 11years and only took it down to wash it a few times. You become an expert taking down the side curtains and storing them. Mine had 5 panels. Unzipand remove in order port-to-back-to-starboard. Lay them flat, one atop the other in order on the cabin table. ROLL not fold, them to lay the roll against the hull side of the vee berth. Do everything in reverse order to put back together. 4 minutes tops after doing it 5 times. MOST IMPORTANT: Do not let well meaning guests or spouse help you!
 
Chuck, that “limbo top” comment made my day! Yup, I learned the hard way about the limbo top, and the older I get... the less limbo I get. I should get off my duff and go back to the canvas shop and have our top modified. It will mean getting the side windows and mooring cover modified as well, but it would be worth it.
 
Fairbro":qz20pb2t said:
Like everything else it all depends on how you use your boat. If you trailer your boat I’d say no camper top because you’d have to put it up and take it down often. (As you would a Bimini if you care about it) If you keep your boat in a slip for the season it’s a nice addition that enables you to enjoy cozy, rainy weekends aboard for you wish and allows more use of the cockpit. I had a mooring cover too but seldom used it because of the pooling problem no matter how many props I used. As I said before I had mine 11years and only took it down to wash it a few times. You become an expert taking down the side curtains and storing them. Mine had 5 panels. Unzipand remove in order port-to-back-to-starboard. Lay them flat, one atop the other in order on the cabin table. ROLL not fold, them to lay the roll against the hull side of the vee berth. Do everything in reverse order to put back together. 4 minutes tops after doing it 5 times. MOST IMPORTANT: Do not let well meaning guests or spouse help you!
Click to expand...

We put cheap fleece blankets between the layers before we roll them up. I’m not sure it’s needed, but I don’t want the windows to scratch.
 
This might be an interesting poll subject. Maybe our moderator could pose a question like: if you have a full camper enclosure would you do it again?
(My answer (yes)
I’m reminded of what a clever realtor told my son when I advised him against buying a house with a pool. The seller said: The only home owners that don’t like pools are the ones that don’t have one.
 
With a CD 16, I do a fair amount of limbo and crawling around on my hands and knees. When docking, I do a barrel roll out onto the dock with the line in my teeth. I call it my Rambo maneuver. It is not yet perfected and likely never will be.

My camper back has all of the advantages and disadvantages mentioned. I don't fish that often, and it is never a priority, so I'm willing to put up with the limitations (as one would expect by cruising in a 16 foot boat). My camper back is the only place on board that has standing head room and therefore is the best place for a shower. With two people cruising, it is a necessity. The only time I really didn't like having it was in the canyons at Lake Powell. It limited the view straight up the canyon sides, which isn't normally an issue with boating. But spending two weeks on Lake Powell without it would not have worked.

I saw a camper back in Telegraph Cove that addressed the fishing problem. The aft part of the cover was cantilevered with the last bow attached several feet forward and the top held tight with two straps going down to the splash well. The back and side curtains for that area could be removed when fishing. Putting the poles out on rod holders wasn't a problem, and when you needed to, the two straps were unsnapped and the bow folded forward back over the top. That completely opened the back four feet of the camper top. Plenty of room for the fisherperson to move around.

Mark
 
Since we got our boat in Feb we have trailered it to the river about once a week. Can't see being able to afford leaving it somewhere in the water anytime soon. Sounds like more of a pain for now.
 
Chuck, I am not sure what you mean by the "limbo" tops? Perhaps like Sea Otter cantilevered top? I find them actually easier to get in and out of, because you can grab the raining and swing under--Marie was asking for a cantilevered top. There are very few boats which have this. It has nothing to do with if there is a camper canvas (which means surround all of the way around), I don't find taking the Bimini Top down difficult when trailering. It takes a couple of minutes.

Different strokes...
 
I just got a bimini and camper top this past fall. It's something I really wanted, mostly to keep the cockpit dry when boating in rainy weather. Also for the additional warmth. Have the camper back on, is almost like adding another room. I had mine made locally for $1200. Ok, you asked for Con's. Now that I have it, a few concerns and dislikes. First off, I love the bimini top portion of it. No regrets whatsoever. My thoughts now deal strictly with the side and back curtains, or camper enclosure part under the Bimini. (I will say with just the bimini top on only, I can unzip the top from the sides slightly to make it easier to get on and off, but I would like to see someway to add a strap or something to hold it back when I unzip it slightly for entering and exiting the boat!) The sides snap up the side, with no zipper, so to enter and exit I have to undo the snaps. That can be a bit of a pain. To fish with my downriggers, I need to take the side curtains off. To use my kicker, (no remote) I need to remove the back curtain. Removing and reinstalling isn't all that hard, but does take some time. My side and back curtain has screen, and then a vinyl window. That window is heavy duty, and rolls down rather than up. To open the side curtains for entry and exit, I can not leave the window down as it's then to hard to fold the curtains back to allow entry or exit. I don't have a privacy material, which would be nice, but would add even more weight or thickness to fold. I've only used the side and back curtains a few times, and I do like them when I do, but not sure if it was really worth the cost. If I had to do it all over again, I'd start with just the bimini top, with the option to add the side and back curtains later. Colby
 
Back
Top