Can anyone help me? Im very concerned because somehow the back of my Cdory filled with water and ran up under door & filled cab. This was my fathers boat, who is recently deceased & Im afraid. My fear is that could this water gotten into the hull of the vessel? I live in Jacksonville Florida and if anyone would be willing to talk to us, we'd be so appreciative. We have alot to learn. Our email address is demmimurphy@comcast.net Thank you all so very much.
Back of Vessell filled with water & ran into cab
- Thread starter dmurphy
- Start date
Sorry to hear of your plight!
How much water was in the cabin (how deep), and for how long?
Do you have the wood-like Decagard cabinetry in the cabin, or is the cabinetry all formed of off-white molded fiberglass?
The former is attached to the floor with metal brackets and screws, and the second usually with fiberglass tape.
The screws could leak water into the balsa wood core if the water is standing long enough, but the fiberglass tape leaves the core un-penetrated, so would not be a problem.
Look through the entire cabin. Are there screws or any other places where the water could have gotten down through the inside layer of fiberglass into the balsa wood core between the inner and outer hull?
If you think there's been any significant water penetration, immediately try to dry out the hull with as much fresh air and heat as you can apply with open air, fans, etc. In the winter, you might use an electric heater, but in the summer, probably not. The biggest problem to drying may be the already high humidity in Florida.
Others may have different opinions. This is based on my understanding of the general construction methods of the two different cabinet styles used in the C-Dorys. I've never owed one with the fiberglass cabinetry, so there may be some limitations therein.
Good Luck!
Joe. :teeth :thup
How much water was in the cabin (how deep), and for how long?
Do you have the wood-like Decagard cabinetry in the cabin, or is the cabinetry all formed of off-white molded fiberglass?
The former is attached to the floor with metal brackets and screws, and the second usually with fiberglass tape.
The screws could leak water into the balsa wood core if the water is standing long enough, but the fiberglass tape leaves the core un-penetrated, so would not be a problem.
Look through the entire cabin. Are there screws or any other places where the water could have gotten down through the inside layer of fiberglass into the balsa wood core between the inner and outer hull?
If you think there's been any significant water penetration, immediately try to dry out the hull with as much fresh air and heat as you can apply with open air, fans, etc. In the winter, you might use an electric heater, but in the summer, probably not. The biggest problem to drying may be the already high humidity in Florida.
Others may have different opinions. This is based on my understanding of the general construction methods of the two different cabinet styles used in the C-Dorys. I've never owed one with the fiberglass cabinetry, so there may be some limitations therein.
Good Luck!
Joe. :teeth :thup
I've received a nice "Thank You" PM from the party with the boat, and it turns out the vessel in question has the wood cabinetry.
We still don't know how long the water sat in the boat. To m, that would be a major factor in determining the course of action.
If it was just for a day or few days, I'd probably dry the cabin out ASAP. then remove a few screws and see if I could tell if there was water in the balsa. If the water had been in there longer, I'd probably remove all the screws to aid in the drying out.
The good news is that the water penetration would not spread out very much from the screw holes because the balsa in in small individual blocks under 2 inches in size, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, like plywood.
This means that once the balsa blocks are dried out, the damage, if any, is stopped.
Perhaps the best course of action would be to remove all the screws, dry out the balsa, then properly re-seal (really re-bed) the screws.
Re-beddding the screws would involve digging out the balsa back about 1/4" from the screw shafts, filling the holes with epoxy and letting it set, then re-drilling pilot holes for the screws in the new epoxy. This seals the balsa and provides a firm foundation to anchor the screws into. Unfortunately, this is very difficult work down under the existing cabinetry.
If I thought the balsa was still firm, I might be tempted to just insert a firm sealing substance into the holes, then drive the screws back down, using the hydraulic pressure of the inserting screw to push the sealer into the balsa and form a water tight fit. The problem here would be to find a suitable sealing compound that would form a good water-tight bond, but also be removable later if necessary. Some sealants would be too soft, others would make a permanent bond that wouldn't allow later removal. I'd consult with a marine store for the best answer for this question.
Joe. :teeth :thup
We still don't know how long the water sat in the boat. To m, that would be a major factor in determining the course of action.
If it was just for a day or few days, I'd probably dry the cabin out ASAP. then remove a few screws and see if I could tell if there was water in the balsa. If the water had been in there longer, I'd probably remove all the screws to aid in the drying out.
The good news is that the water penetration would not spread out very much from the screw holes because the balsa in in small individual blocks under 2 inches in size, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, like plywood.
This means that once the balsa blocks are dried out, the damage, if any, is stopped.
Perhaps the best course of action would be to remove all the screws, dry out the balsa, then properly re-seal (really re-bed) the screws.
Re-beddding the screws would involve digging out the balsa back about 1/4" from the screw shafts, filling the holes with epoxy and letting it set, then re-drilling pilot holes for the screws in the new epoxy. This seals the balsa and provides a firm foundation to anchor the screws into. Unfortunately, this is very difficult work down under the existing cabinetry.
If I thought the balsa was still firm, I might be tempted to just insert a firm sealing substance into the holes, then drive the screws back down, using the hydraulic pressure of the inserting screw to push the sealer into the balsa and form a water tight fit. The problem here would be to find a suitable sealing compound that would form a good water-tight bond, but also be removable later if necessary. Some sealants would be too soft, others would make a permanent bond that wouldn't allow later removal. I'd consult with a marine store for the best answer for this question.
Joe. :teeth :thup
shellndanm
New member
The theory that water will not penetrate through the balsa squares is not correct. The gas tank screws into my deck caused water to completely saturate most of the deck. My boat is a 2005. Check out the album.
I got an email from Murphy in reply to the above
"Our boat is hanging in our boat lift, we have pulled the plug in boat and removed all the water. I currently have a carpet blower on high blowing in the cabin. We believe a garden hose was left on and in the boat. Not certain how the water got in there. No, our bilge pump needs a new hose (cracck in the hose). Most of all we are worried that water is somehow in the hull of the boat. Is this even possible? We may haave nothing to worry about but this boat was my father's who is recently deceased. We are neurotic about taking care of it and are freaked out over this incident. Do you know of a website we coulad go to in order to see a picture of what our boat looks like underneath (hull)? Thanks so much."
I'm not sure what she means about "a picture of what our boat looks like underneath."Any help would be appreciated.
"Our boat is hanging in our boat lift, we have pulled the plug in boat and removed all the water. I currently have a carpet blower on high blowing in the cabin. We believe a garden hose was left on and in the boat. Not certain how the water got in there. No, our bilge pump needs a new hose (cracck in the hose). Most of all we are worried that water is somehow in the hull of the boat. Is this even possible? We may haave nothing to worry about but this boat was my father's who is recently deceased. We are neurotic about taking care of it and are freaked out over this incident. Do you know of a website we coulad go to in order to see a picture of what our boat looks like underneath (hull)? Thanks so much."
I'm not sure what she means about "a picture of what our boat looks like underneath."Any help would be appreciated.
Hi and welcome to the C-Brats!
As you can see, there are many here who would be happy to help. If you can give us more information, we can give you more meaningful info. Right now we are slightly shooting in the dark. We don't know if you had a half inch of water in the boat for an hour, or two feet for a month. Was the boat taking on salt water, or did it rain in, etc.
One thing to know is that due to the designed dory shape of the hull, the lowest point is naturally in the cabin, not too far ahead of the door. So if the boat is sitting level, and water gets in (typically rain coming into the cockpit) it will run toward the cabin. There are a few ways to mitigate this.
1) When boat is on trailer, use trailer nose jack to tilt it so the bow is high and the stern is low. Remove the drain plug at the bottom of the transom (leaving a hole for water to get out).
2) Optionally, fit a cover or store it under a roof. This keeps many things in better shape, so there are more benefits than just keeping water out.
3) Also make sure you have a bilge pump(s). Amidships, you will want one if you don't have the permanent flat cockpit sole (not sure there is an amidships bilge pump with the flatter sole?). And most people fit one in the little sump right by the transom between the fuel tanks. These should not be relied upon solely, but they are an aid.
4) If the boat is in the water, a cockpit cover/camperback/etc. can help keep water out. Because of course you cannot "slant" the boat like you can on the trailer. If you have a reliable source of power, and not too much rain, the bilge pumps should keep up, but keeping the water out in the first place is better.
As far as any damage or repairs, can you give us more information? Otherwise we'll come up with all kinds of scenarios that may not even apply.
Sunbeam
As you can see, there are many here who would be happy to help. If you can give us more information, we can give you more meaningful info. Right now we are slightly shooting in the dark. We don't know if you had a half inch of water in the boat for an hour, or two feet for a month. Was the boat taking on salt water, or did it rain in, etc.
One thing to know is that due to the designed dory shape of the hull, the lowest point is naturally in the cabin, not too far ahead of the door. So if the boat is sitting level, and water gets in (typically rain coming into the cockpit) it will run toward the cabin. There are a few ways to mitigate this.
1) When boat is on trailer, use trailer nose jack to tilt it so the bow is high and the stern is low. Remove the drain plug at the bottom of the transom (leaving a hole for water to get out).
2) Optionally, fit a cover or store it under a roof. This keeps many things in better shape, so there are more benefits than just keeping water out.
3) Also make sure you have a bilge pump(s). Amidships, you will want one if you don't have the permanent flat cockpit sole (not sure there is an amidships bilge pump with the flatter sole?). And most people fit one in the little sump right by the transom between the fuel tanks. These should not be relied upon solely, but they are an aid.
4) If the boat is in the water, a cockpit cover/camperback/etc. can help keep water out. Because of course you cannot "slant" the boat like you can on the trailer. If you have a reliable source of power, and not too much rain, the bilge pumps should keep up, but keeping the water out in the first place is better.
As far as any damage or repairs, can you give us more information? Otherwise we'll come up with all kinds of scenarios that may not even apply.
Sunbeam
Sea Wolf":2ssbnuih said:
shellndanm":2ssbnuih said:
I was just going to mention this. IF everything were done perfectly, and each square were perfectly isolated with resin, this is theoretically true. But I would never count on it in a production boat. (I have re-cored boats and made the effort to fill every cut between squares, and I still would not "count" on that fact -- and I know I had them filled well. It was very labor and resin intensive.)
(In some modern construction methods, you can "vacuum" resin into many gaps, but I don't believe C-Dory builds their boats that way, and I would still never count on that vs. keeping water out.)
In fact, one of my C-Dory floorboards was ruined partially due to these "channels" not being filled at all. First, one of the larger gaps between balsa sections formed a weak point which allowed a crack on the underside (very small crack). Water got into the crack. Then it ran all up and down the "open aisles" and saturated the balsa core of about 85% of the floorboard.
I don't think this took much abuse to have happen either. When I got the floorboards (from another 22) they had been only barely used and then stored away in a garage (boat owner was a fisherman; didn't like the floorboards). I had them either stored indoors or in a dry climate. Before taking my boat out for the first time I noticed the crack, delved in expecting a small repair, and...
I think with any core material it's best to assume that if any water gets in it can do major damage (even with foam, water can run up and down any "aisles" and do damage), and so the best course of action is to keep water out. Luckily, we know ways to do this. Unluckily, we often have to do it ourselves (or hire it done). But that's true for just about every production boat.
However, most times damage does not occur instantly, so there is a window of opportunity to take care of issues.
One other note is that the wood cabinetry does not need to be attached by screws. So if one takes the time to remove the screws, then fill the holes, there are other options for re-securing the cabinetry (screws back into the new epoxy is one of them; but there are others that do not involve holes as well).
Sunbeam
I just saw Marty's note about the PM from the boat owner.
I have to go do some projects so can't hunt up a photo right now, but the way the hull of the boat is made is like a sandwich. The very bottom "bread" is a layer of hard fiberglass; the "filling" is around an inch of balsa wood, and the top "bread" is another layer of fiberglass. These are called the skins (bread) and the core (filling).
You are right to be concerned about water getting into the core, as this is bad news. However, it may not have happened.
I would first dry everything out as you are. Keep more water from getting in (can you slope the boat on the lift so the transom drain is lowest? I don't know how lifts work in that way).
Once the surfaces are dry, you can check for moisture/damage. Look in the places where the water was sitting for penetrations (usually screws) into the bottom of the boat (the surface you walk on, I mean). You can pull each one out and use a dental pick, etc. to pull up a bit of core. It should look like blonde/dry wood and make a sort of crispy sound when you poke at it. You can also buy a moisture meter and move it around (on a dry surface only). A good one will be around $200 and you will have to order it, but a "cheapie" Ryobi can be had at Home Depot and I found it to still give an overall view (not as precise as a "real" one, but still gives relative readings. You run it over the surface and watch the gauge. (Metal will distort readings somewhat.)
I think the key will be how long the water sat, plus a bit of luck/unluck.
If you do a bit of googling around about cored construction in boats, you will see quite a few photos and drawings of how it works. There is core in our boats in the decks, bottom, side walls, and some roofs. The bottom and perhaps the bulkhead (wall) where the door is would probably be your main concern. The core in the bottom ends as you go forward of the steering wheel area (forward of that is solid fiberglass).
I have to go do some projects so can't hunt up a photo right now, but the way the hull of the boat is made is like a sandwich. The very bottom "bread" is a layer of hard fiberglass; the "filling" is around an inch of balsa wood, and the top "bread" is another layer of fiberglass. These are called the skins (bread) and the core (filling).
You are right to be concerned about water getting into the core, as this is bad news. However, it may not have happened.
I would first dry everything out as you are. Keep more water from getting in (can you slope the boat on the lift so the transom drain is lowest? I don't know how lifts work in that way).
Once the surfaces are dry, you can check for moisture/damage. Look in the places where the water was sitting for penetrations (usually screws) into the bottom of the boat (the surface you walk on, I mean). You can pull each one out and use a dental pick, etc. to pull up a bit of core. It should look like blonde/dry wood and make a sort of crispy sound when you poke at it. You can also buy a moisture meter and move it around (on a dry surface only). A good one will be around $200 and you will have to order it, but a "cheapie" Ryobi can be had at Home Depot and I found it to still give an overall view (not as precise as a "real" one, but still gives relative readings. You run it over the surface and watch the gauge. (Metal will distort readings somewhat.)
I think the key will be how long the water sat, plus a bit of luck/unluck.
If you do a bit of googling around about cored construction in boats, you will see quite a few photos and drawings of how it works. There is core in our boats in the decks, bottom, side walls, and some roofs. The bottom and perhaps the bulkhead (wall) where the door is would probably be your main concern. The core in the bottom ends as you go forward of the steering wheel area (forward of that is solid fiberglass).
I agree with all and will add remove all cushions, open all windows, hatches, anchor and rode, any electronics that is easy to remove and wipe down interior and cockpit with hot soapy water with bleach (1 cup bleach (no more) in 4 gallons of water) to kill mold, mildew, etc and keep wet for 10 minutes or more of contact time and keep the fan on high and/or add a second fan, and let it dry out over time then begin other items
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
I think this is Marvin Murphy's family. Marvin and I went through aviation electrician's school together.
As the boat has wood cabinetry, I would focus attention around the L brackets that hold the cabinets in to see if there was any penetration into the core. Also, the cleats for the gas tanks. As other's have mentioned, get the cloth out, get any residual water out, and start a fan going to dry things. Wipe the interior with a clorox solution to kill mold and mildew.
I am sorry this happened!!! Best of luck!!!
As the boat has wood cabinetry, I would focus attention around the L brackets that hold the cabinets in to see if there was any penetration into the core. Also, the cleats for the gas tanks. As other's have mentioned, get the cloth out, get any residual water out, and start a fan going to dry things. Wipe the interior with a clorox solution to kill mold and mildew.
I am sorry this happened!!! Best of luck!!!
Wandering Sagebrush":3i06e8ik said:
Well, to sum up, dry the interior out good, replace the busted hose on the bildge pump, wash the interior down with a bleach solution, put the plug in and put the boat in the water and check out the operating systems (motor, lights, electronics). As time goes by keep an eye on metal stuff for rust and replace with stainless when needed. Get a canvas guy to make a slant back (moooring) cover for the cockpit. If you have any questions the C-Brats are always here to try and help. Let us know how you're getting along. Many of us remember and admired your dad. These are tough little boats. Now go and enjoy her.
Pandy Girl
New member
This was Marvin boat, This is his Daughter that is wanting Info. You have got some good info. here. Like said Dry everything out, Your Dad keep it in top shaped,(talking with him at the NC Cruises) Hope everything goes well. Jim