C-Dory Quality Control

Hmmmmm........ Inappropriate white sealant goop + nylon against metal + loose hose clamps = messy disasters, foiled cruise plans, damage, and unhappy customers. hmmmmmmmmmmmm .

OR, for $30-50 more in parts:

Teflon tape + all brass/metal junction fittings + double and tightened hose clamps = good advertising point, few if any messy disasters, dependable cruise plans, and customers singing your praises.

They could raise the price $50 and do that for me anyday!

John
 
Well, when you take delivery, be sure to LOOK for the white goop, and tell them it has to be fixed before you take the boat...


drjohn71a":3k79yj78 said:
Hmmmmm........ Inappropriate white sealant goop + nylon against metal + loose hose clamps = messy disasters, foiled cruise plans, damage, and unhappy customers. hmmmmmmmmmmmm .

OR, for $30-50 more in parts:

Teflon tape + all brass/metal junction fittings + double and tightened hose clamps = good advertising point, few if any messy disasters, dependable cruise plans, and customers singing your praises.

They could raise the price $50 and do that for me anyday!

John
Click to expand...
 
Yes, the chrome plated brass threaded pipe which is the inlet for the water to hot and cold valves was coated with the Bostix sealant (to include inside of the nylon fitting) from the factory. The black plastic pipe is the place where the shower head hose goes thru the bulkhead fitting. It attatches between the hot and cold valves.

Pat, thank you again for posting my photos. My appologies, I didn't have my good camera on the boat--and the cheaper Canon does not do as well on the close ups with the auto focus, so it is a bit fuzzy.

I would love to say that the probelm is solved. I did spend quite some time on the phone with Rich Reynolds (I hope I have the first name correct)--Scott's father. He arranged for a local shop to have the proper fittings. Unfortunately they did not have appropiate fittings. I picked up what I thought would work from Home Depot. However it appears that the threads are not standard, and I could not find any American Standard, NPT or SAE thread which fit. Rich is sending another set of the nylon fittings, and I may take the faucets out and take them to a plumbing wholesale shop to see if they have any brass fittings which we can adapt to this. The nylon fittings come with the Scandvik shower.

Looking in the Scandvik catalogue this evening, I find that the thread is BSP (British Standard Pipe)--instead of NPT (National pipe thread), which is used most of the time in US plumbing. (Any plumbers out there?). Hopefully some of the wholesale plumbing shops will have a BSP female 3/8" fitting with the shoulder.

I have to say that both Rich and Jeff (who also called and Emailed) are trying to help. Fortunately I took a few minutes this PM and found the answer on the internet--I probably should have gone there initially before running all over town and spending several hours on the project--let the fingers do the walking!
 
The BSP (British standard pipe) is actully a very common thread in instrumentation systems on a lot of oil field equipment. Swedgelock makes some BSP fittings if you have a supply house near you that carries this type of thing. Mike on Huda Thunkit
 
I have to say that I am amazed: I had last talked with Rich Reynolds last afternoon at 2:20 PM--and he said he would send out the new nylon parts for the shower intake and I would get them in the morning. At 7:30 AM parts were here! (over 2500 miles away) You cannot get any better attention or service than that!

There is no question in my mind that the C Dory people are trying as hard as they can to make things right.

The new fitting was put on hand tight--with no goop--and no leaks there! I didn't want to tighten with a wrench because of the soft threads. Looking at a comparison with the old fitting and new, the old threads were definately deformed. I'll take a good quality photo in the next few days for comparison. I didn't replace the hot water side, but no "hiss" or drops of water. I may just do that prophlactically tomarrow. The pump still cycles but at 20 second intervals instead of 14 seconds. I am letting it run overnight to see if there is any other place where water is leaking even a drop.

Mike, thanks for the information on the source of BSP fittings.
 
Bob,
My water pump cycling was caused by a bad pump. Replaced under warranty and no longer cycles at all. I've had the hoses to the sink and shower come apart under the counter. So far that has been the only fresh water problem in just over a year.
Ron
 
Another place you will find the cheap stuff is where your washdown switch / hose coupling is mounted to the wall! Ours had stripped threads in the plastic at delivery and that same white goop everyone is noticing. I have since replaced that entire assembly with machined stainless parts. Mike on Huda Thunkit
 
They could raise the price $50 and do that for me anyday!

John
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, John. In fact, I'd pitch in $50 myself to never see anymore titles and threads like this and a few others.

Must be frustrating as hell for those involved, and certainly for us with boats working hassle-free (the vast majority) to watch . . .
 
Ron,
I thought I had ruled out the water pump's valves or switch by putting a plug in the line right by the output--and no cycling. At this point I am wondering if that was an adequate test. I'll probably pull the line at the pump again, and put 6' of hose (scrap box) and a plug and see if this cycles. If all of the valves, connections are not leaking (the one being fixed)--I have to conclude that it is the pump...

The issue is not really quality of the boats--but of the way things are put on the boats. I do truely believe that the boat hulls are as well built as ever. I have to attribute this to untrained workmen. At this point, the factory and its execuitives know that there were problems. I don't know how many were present--but the real question is can they eliminate these in the future? If we find a generation of boats which are comming off the line, with no issues, then whom ever is in charge of quality control is doing their job.
 
If the pump cycles frequently and there is no leak down stream, the likely cause is a bit of debris caught in the pumps internal one way valves - stringy polyethylene left over from pipe threading is especially good at this. Most pumps can be taken apart for cleaning and future problems can be minimized with the installation of a fine mesh screen filter ahead of the pumps inlet.
 
I agree with Sea Skipper--I started to say that there is no teflon tape used, but then I think that it may be used in the outflow fitting at the bottom of the tank. I cannot easily see the tank bottom to find out. All of the pumps on the current Tom Cats have fine mesh SS screen filters on them. But this does not rule out that debris could have gotten in the lines. I am gong to put quick release connections on the power, and then pull the pump next week. The input and out flow are quick release water fittings, and I just have to unscrew the mounts to pull the pump head. There is a lot of sawdust and debris in the area of the pump and hoses--but that sort of thing is usually pushed thru the pump fairly fast. A FloJet pump is used for fresh water #4405 143 and a Shurflo Blaster is used for the raw water washdown. On my cruising boats I settled on one pump type for both, so I could carry one complete spare pump and a couple rebuild kits.

I left the pump on 24 hours--still cycling at 20 second intervals (up from 14 before the leak was fixed) No leak at the input to either shower fitting--in fact no leak anywhere in the boat I can see. Checked hot water heater, head, sink, shower (x2). and area of the pump output. There are no other couplings in the hose that I am aware of.
 
Thataway

Know what your going through with the water pump. Ours began cycling every 16 seconds, while we were on the summer Canada cruise. We went back to the factory at the trips conclusion, and they just replaced the water pump. Frank said they had some problems with some of the pumps. My feeling was that the diaphragm was allowing water from the pressure side to leak back through the pump. That would turn the pump on, and the cycle would start again. Have used the replacement pump for two different, week long trips to Lake Powell, and it's worked perfectly.

I relocated the raw water wash down pump. Attached it to the underside of the rear port cabinet top. This got it above both the inlet and outlet hoses. I hope it will let the water drain away so it will not freeze. The real reason however was that I am installing a Waeco Coolfreeze CF-50 AC/DC Freezer in the that cabinet, and needed a little more room.
 
Brent, thanks--goood points. My conclusion is that there is some problem with the pump at this point--and the leak was co-incidental--glad to have found it and resolved that problem--but the pump still needs to be replaced or repaired.

Actually the pump may drain better on the underside of the cabinet--if you open the quick disconnect, it should gravity drain, instead of having to run the pump dry (but still a good idea to run the pump dry for a couple of seconds).

I'll be very interested to see how the freezer turns out. Are you going with a slide out as I did with mine under the foreward seat? Are you putting a shelf above the freezer? I find that I have a couple of tackle boxes which just fit on each side of the freezer in the cabinet frame--a couple have fishing lures, the other spare parts, screws, bolts, fuses etc.
 
Thataway,

Yes, I am going to make it a slide out. I had the factory make the cabinet with a 15 1/2" wide door. I had planned on the freezer from the start. A shelf above would be a good idea. Are you having any problems with ventilation? Does the compressor pump produce much heat? I have thought about a louvred area in the cabinet door, but probable will wait and see how it works.

Tackle storage is a problem, and I seem to bring along too much. You never know what you will need. I have been thinking about adding some built-in storage boxes in the cockpit. Looking at Tempress 1115 type Slam Hatch or Cam Hatch units. I would cut them in, in the cockpit wall areas just above the fish boxes. Unsure of how much cutting I can do there, without degrading the structural integrity. I would really like to put 3 units along each side. That would make room for a total of 18 Plano 3600 style boxes. What are your thoughts on this?
 
I am still going to put a 12 volt computer fan, controlled by a thermostat, off of the same breaker that the 12 volt circuit of the freezer runs in the aft upper area by the top of the ventaillation of the compressor, which blows into the area under the dinette. (Less noise to the bunk area--and on occasion we may sleep for and aft, if grand kids are with us). With the freezer under the foreward seat, there is fairly good heat release between the hull and the seat cushion. During cooler weather this seems fine. But I think in the summer, it will be a very good idea for a fan and cross ventaillation. You are in adifferent situation--with no air flow out of the cabinet, so I would definately put in both ventillation and a fan.

I also thought about tackle trays over the side boxes. There is a lot of wiring and fuel lines are up there, as well as controls and hydraulics on the Stb side (I was not able to pass all of my additional wiring and the hoses for the shower thru the existing loops from the ties---but may take the side box out to do that. I wonder if there is enough depth to make it worth while? I have lines stored in the port locker by the fuel filter, but nothing (cockpit shower hose) in that locker--and there would be room for several smaller boxes stacked up there. I admit the area beside the freezer is not readily accessiable--but when we are fishing, we bring the boxes out and keep them out until thru.

My guess is structurally it will not make a lot of differency, because there is already the long cut for the side boxes, and so the load is taken mostly on the ends--and some in the center where the liner and hull contact. I probably would pull the side box and take a real good look before making a cut.
 
thataway":3eo8wpxz said:
I am still going to put a 12 volt computer fan...
Click to expand...

If noise is a concern, a couple tips for you...

I'm in the middle of building a new PC, and am paying particular attention this time to noise levels.

Look into 120mm case fans - they are bigger, and turn at lower RPM's, resulting in the same CFM but at much lower decibels. And, you can further reduce the noise by installing a Zalman Fan Mate in the power line...this allows you to adjust the voltage/RPM's to the fan. More likely than not, you won't need the fan running full tilt.

A good source for info on quiet PC components, including some specific fan recommendations - SPCR.
 
Bill, Thank you. I'll look into these items. Interesting that there was a larger fan than usual (didn't measure) at the local marine consignment shop and it had a lead which looked to be for one of these fan controlers.
I was reluctant to buy a used fan. So now I know why the extra lead.
 
I have been watching the C-Dory quality control issues on this site for some time.

This is not aimed at any individual and I am not trying to defend C-Dory Marine nor pick on them.

One thing I notice is many people seem to think the quality of the C-Dory has diminished quite a bit lately and that is based on the post to this site, in the last few months.

Here are some things you have to take into consideration that I believe to a great extent, has not been.

1. The number of members on this site has just about doubled in the last 14 to 16 months.
2. The number of people posting comments on this site, on a regular basis has more than doubled in the same time frame.
3. The total number of post per day has gone up by more than 150% in this time frame.
4. The number of boats produced by C-Dory Marine has probably gone up by more than 50% per year in the last couple of years.
5. I would bet that fewer than six people have posted more than 50% of the complaints about the quality of the C-Dory.
6. Much of the comments about the quality have been from people quoting, commenting or repeating what someone else has said. Not first hand knowledge.
7. Many of the complaints have been nit-picking small items that most of us consider part of the ownership of a boat.
8. Are the complaints now a greater percentage of the post, or the same, or a lesser percentage of the post? Are they just more in number because of the increase in all the above?

Based on this I would question how much is perception and how much if any, is really a poorer quality product?

I do not have that first hand knowledge, but it seems most and I mean by far, most people do not have a real problem with their new C-Dory. I am not saying they do not have minor issues that they have taking care of themselves or had the factory take care of it. They have not made a big issue of it because they know it is part of owning a boat.
 
Dave -

You make some very good points in your recent message re quality control. Rapid, mass communication has certainly changed our perception of the world around us. We are much more aware of child abuse, plane wrecks, workplace shootings, etc., because we hear about every single one of them, over and over, on CNN, Fox, CNBC, Court TV, 24 hours per day. The huge advantages of the internet obviously cut two ways. We all get to share the latest fish stories, the tips and tricks, remodeling efforts, etc. Fortunately, or unfortunately, we also hear about every little problem almost immediately, and then we get to mull them over, comment on them, and tsk, tsk, tsk, ad nauseum.

On the other hand, rapid communications among owners, dealers, and manufacturers should provide quality control advantages that would have been impossible in the past. For example, we are all now very aware of the 'white goop' problem in the plumbing systems. I have no idea how many boats have been manufactured/delivered with this problem. And you make a realistic point; this may be one of those issues that just comes with the territory of owning a boat; any boat. However, since everyone 'knows about' it now, shouldn't it be rather simple to (a) fix the problem, and (b) inform the (otherwise overwhelmingly friendly and supportive) C-Dory community of the fix?

Why should 'warnings' (from owners on this site) to new owners be necessary at all? Is the problem fixed? Or isn't it? Are boats still being shipped in this condition? If so, why? If not, why not let everyone know? Granted, any such 'admissions' might (?) lead to potential liability problems down the road, but this is clearly not what the C-Brat community is all about.

The overall consensus is that C-Dories are built and commissioned with very high quality, and with factory support second to none. I suspect what is frustrating is when a seemingly simple problem turns into HOURS of repair time, standing on one's head in cramped quarters, and all of this could have been avoided entirely with more attention to the assembly process while everything was in plain sight right in front of the fabricator. It just seems so unnecessary.

e.g.
 
I have been flowing this thread and would like to give my perspective on the subject. I bought a 16 foot C-Dory Cruiser this year. I live in the Ocean City, Maryland area and use the boat to fish the coastal bays, the inlet, and just off shore. I also trailer the boat over to the Chesapeake Bay for day trips. I have used the boat just under 200 hours and overall I am very pleased with the boat. However, having said that, my grade for C-Dory quality control is about industry average.

First, let me say, my definition of quality control is the process to verify the design, assure quality materials are used, verify adherence to the manufacturing process, and assure the product meets predetermined standards prior to leaving the factory. In my opinion (based on my experience identified below) where most boat manufactures need to place additional focus, including C-Dory, are in the manufacturing process and final inspection prior to delivery.

My experience is based on over 50 years of boating and having purchased 5 boats (mostly new) in the last 18 years ranging from a runabout to a motor yacht. My sample space includes purchasing boats from Regal Marine, Cruisers Inc., Silverton Marine, and now C-Dory. None of the boats had any design or structural issues. Where they all disappointed me were with little things that could have been easily found through quality control at the factory. Even though they were little issues, they took time away from boating and personal life to resolve.

My 16 foot C-Dory was delivered from the factory with the following problems:

1. The cockpit liner on the port side had about a 2 inch gap between it and the topsides and was not properly attached to the boat.
2. The cockpit liner on the port side was not caulked along the boat bottom from about the middle of the cockpit to the transom.
3. The underside of the v-berth and hull on the starboard side of the boat has no gelcoat, the fiberglass mat attaching the v-berth to the hull is exposed and sharp.
4. The navigation light was not properly sealed to the topsides and leaks on to the v-berth.
5. The thru hull hole for the horn and windshield wiper electrical wires is not caulked and allows water into the cabin in rough seas and during washing.
6. There is a pin hole leak in the hull port side above the v-berth and about 5 inches below the rub rail.

I am still very pleased with my C-Dory, but somewhat disappointed.
 
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