C-Dory Quality Control

Dave, thank you. IMHO, you are spot on and had the guts to say what I've been thinking all along.

I fall under the category you described:

I am not saying they do not have minor issues that they have taking care of themselves or had the factory take care of it. They have not made a big issue of it because they know it is part of owning a boat.
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I also have to add that although I read every post on this site on a daily basis, I'm getting less enjoyment reading all these negative posts about C-Dory from only a select few. C-Dory's have been described as spartan, economical, equivelant to a VW Van. And for that class of boat, I feel the quality of these boats has stood the test of time and is still a high quality boat. So why does it seem that people are expecting a Mercedes? Are there problems? Sure, it is not a perfect boat. But what boat is?

Actually, after thinking of the question I just posed, I just thought of the answer. Because the spartan, VW Van C-Dory is the CD-16, CD-19 & CD-22. Once the C-Dory's started getting bigger and MUCH more expensive, the expectations became MUCH bigger. I don't see a whole lot of complaints about the CD-22.

So I'll just contain my thoughts to the smaller, simpler C-Dory's. Although our boat isn't cheap by any stretch, it is a well-built, tough, practical and FUN boat. And isn't that what boating should be about, FUN? I love my CD-22 cruiser.

Peter
 
Very eloquently put Peter and with me there are only 2 more complainers left? I dont think so. Unlike Peter, I on the other hand purchased my first boat and had numerous "little problems that affected not only my personal life and boating time" but they also contributed to my skepticizm of the industry as a whole.
Working with multi million dollar rotating equipmnet gives you a perspective on quality and customer service. And if one more person tells me I should have bought a Hatteras I'm gonna spit. I'm not comparing the C-dory with a mega anything. I am talking about the very simplest of finish touches that go into the boat during it's last stages of completion.
I did complete a good first season with the boat and am looking toward more in the future. It's just hard to dump 80K into something requireing so much initial work. Sooner or later I will get over this and will know what to expect in the future. I guess if the C-dory's are that much better than everything else out there I can be thankful that my first boat came from them. :teeth Mike on Huda Thunkit
 
I also have to add that although I read every post on this site on a daily basis, I'm getting less enjoyment reading all these negative posts about C-Dory from only a select few.
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Our boat is five years old and we can look at this objectively. I really don't see anything wrong with people sharing the problems that they are having with the boat they purchased and shouldn't have to feel bad about doing so. I always thought that is what this forum was about, the exchange of useful information with each other for everyones benefit. GOOD OR BAD.

I understand from reading other threads that the C-Dory factory people are really nice and that is great, but people should be able to talk openly without worrying about whether or not they are going to offend the factory.
If there are quality issues with any product, be it a car or boat or TV, the only way a company can improve that is to get accurate feedback from the customer.

There are threads that I don't enjoy reading so I DON'T READ THEM (like the political discussions). It would be a shame for someone to purchase a boat and feel they only can say the "good" things about it. It doesn't mean they don't like the product. Also, what is "small or nit-picky" to some might be very important to others, especially when you pay a lot money for a new boat. We paid less than 30,000 for ours but if it were new, that would be a lot of money for us and we would be very disapointed if we had to fix a lot of things up right away. No offense, but I want my clamps properly installed, whether on my boat or my car. It is not a lot to ask.

Ultimately the factory should embrace negative feedback about their boat which will in turn make people happier as they improve upon them.

Rick and Donna
 
The problem is the title of the post. It should be:

255 Problems? or 255 Quality? or 255 Fixes? or 255 Satisfaction?

I think most users don't like having a headline that any competitor would love to write staring them in the face day after day after day when the problems though aggrivating to be sure have nothing to do with sinkings and certainly nothing to do with most boats in general. Why the title hasn't been changed by now, I haven't a clue.
 
I will attempt to put this in perspective. I had been a C Dory 22 owner for 3 years without a single complaint prior to buying the TC 255. I started the "Thataway" thread as an attempt to share my experience as I outfitted a new Tom Cat 255 based on 65 years of boating experience, ownership of 20 boats from 14 to 62 feet and 20 boats smaller, having built boats, restored boats, surveyed boats and consulted on the purchase and outfitting of a number of very expensive boats. There was not intent of criticism and when the first problem arose, I questioned if I should mention it or not. The fear was that it would devalue both my boat--and every other C Dory--as well as cause potential problems for the builder. I felt that there were serious enough issues, that they needed to be brought to the attention of both the builders and other owners. I feel that a accomplished my mission of describing modifications and additions for a TC 255, and will continue to do so. If one reads the "Thataway" thread, you will find that the majority of comments are on modifications and installation of systems and the complaints are a small fraction of the postings.

Seeker asked if others had problems similar to what he read about on the "Thataway" thread. Five other boaters noted that they had somewhat similar problems. I have seen at least one C Dory 25 about the same age as my boat, which has some similar problems. However none of the problems were structural. It is my opionion that C Dory has hired a large number of new employees which had minimal training--and until recently lacked a good quality control program. It is very true that the C Dory 22 and smaller are very simple boats. The TC 255, C D 25 and C R 25 are much more complex boats. I understand that C Dory has now hired a Quality Control person, a Production manager and an engineer to help resolve any problems.

The issues I first noted were that there were positive 12 volt terminals not properly covered in violation of ABYC standards. C Dory is getting NMMA certification to assure that all boats are to ABYC standards. The plumbing issues were mostly due to the use of Bostix on the threads of several fittings. I understand that proper plumbing proceedures are now utalized. The battery charger was under sized, and I am told that it has now been corrected. Due to one hose clamp being improperly fastened, I have double clamped all of the pressure hoses at thier fittings. I sanded down the small sharp edges of gel coat on the inside--my wife and I both cut our hands on this material. The boats need to be inspected before delivary for this.

The Wallas fuel line nut not being tightened, was again a lack of understanding what was necessary and I am assured this will be checked.
The Stb gasloine tank vent leaking fuel has not been resolved in my case--I just don't fill the tank full, and keep the boat air conditioned during hot weather. I suspect this is a problem related to the tank manufacture and that C Dory has addressed this issue. The restriction of fuel flow on the port side was due to a faulty anti siphon valve. I don't know if a vacuum test is being done. Mine was replaced and I have a spare. The shower drain not being attatched, and the improper attatchement of the wire to the sump pump has been addressed in the protocol. The Diamond Sea Glaze door not sealing properly has been addressed by retrofitting a small wedge under the door as it is closed, it raises up to give a proper seal. I am told that all balsa core exposed to the exterior is now sealed.
The forehatch templete and sealant has been reviewed and the proceedure modified to avoid leakage. I don't know if the rusting cap on the fuel fill fixture has been addressed, but this is a minor issue. We do not know the cause of the steering pump failure--but it was taken care of rapidly, and apparently is a rare occurance.


These problems have been minor (except the fuel overflow and steering pump failure). There have been no structural problems. But they are far more that I expect in a boat which costs what the TC 255 does. (I have over $130,000 tied up in the boat). My previous boat was a Rinker Fiesta V270 , 3 months old--and cost about 1/3 of what I have in the Tom Cat, which had absolutely no problems. It was a more complex boat than the Tom Cat.

I do believe that the administration of C Dory is taking all of the criticisms to heart and is trying very hard to correct them. I certainly hope that those who get delivary of the boats in the future have no or minimal problems. In retrospect, I would still have mentioned each problem as it occured. I have taken to posting issues or solutions on the "Thataway" thread--and had hoped that this thread would fade into the sunset.

Regards to all.
(sorry, with the new computer--the signature did't come thru)
Bob Austin
Thataway Tom Cat 255 #39 Twin Suzuki 150's Pensacola, FL.
KA6PKB.
 
I, too, have been following this thread with interest.

We have had numerous electrical problems with Valkyrie, including both factory and dealer rigging glitches. Also, living 400 miles from the dealer, who has never returned our calls about problems, we're pretty much on our own.

When the initial symptoms occurred, I contacted the dealer for advice. His repsonse, "Well, that's what you get when you add all of that extra stuff." Extra stuff translates into a kicker, LED courtesy lights, radar and a second bilge pump, none of which the dealer said that they had ever installed on a 22 before.

As a result, we have had to utilize the services of well-repected local guys, at our own expense. To date, they have found three separate, independent electrical problems, none of which could be found without the others having been resolved or isolated.
We hope that this phase is now over, as we had hoped before. We really hope that the last problem was the LAST ONE.

One problem was the use of "non-marine grade" fuse boxes, which corroded in seven months, in a freshwater environment, causing the fuses to blow. I sent the fuse boxes/holders and the bill, to show the "non-marine" notation, to the factory, but have never had a response.

I think that this thread is healthy, but, in fact, has been in existence, if almost invisible, in the form of PM's and emails.

With my first post, stating our intention to order a 22, I received a number of PM's cautioning me to "Be aware of" or "Watch out for". These were fellow C-Brats who had been there and done that and wanted me to profit from their mistakes and experiences. Their comments were valid, but they were reluctant to anger a dealer, the factory, or appear to be a complainer.

Interestingly, at Gatherings and informal get-togethers, I have heard some owners be critical of certain aspects of dealer or factory problems. In fact, Jeff actually went over an owner's boat at one Gathering to discuss them. Why weren't these on the site so all could benefit from them? This thread is valuable.

The one bright spot in the whole ordering, rigging and equipping process was the man whom I consider the most selfless and the best ambassador for C-Dory-- Les Lampman. He spent literally hours of phone and email time guiding me through problems that the dealer wouldn't address, even though Les received no monetary gain. Thanks again, Les.

Oh, yeah, second bright spot-- all of you Brats who have offered advice and helpful hints. Thanks to all of you.

Also, one C-Brat who ordered his boat when I did, was in frequent contact during our wait for our boats. He shared some of the same frustration as I did, but was also reluctant to complain on-line about trouble spots.

Perhaps I have been spoiled having owned a French sailboat, a Jeanneau, for almost twenty years. Their attention to detail was so good that all of the slots on the screw heads lined up horizontally. In the nearly twenty years that I owned and cruised Spirit, I had fewer problems than I have had in the twenty months that we have had Valkyrie.

I have had to fill extra, unfilled holes under the rubrail, caulk windows and properly bed or "wet-out" untreated screw holes for deck harware, things that should have been done at the factory.

As far as "nitpicking" goes, I believe that when I spend close to $60,000, I should get a product that is done right, at the factory, the first time. Is it nitpicking to expect that the battery charger is actually connected to the battery charger switch? How about having the windshield wipers connected to the right switches?

If I can go out and buy the least expensive new car (sub-15,000) and have a battery that gets charged and wipers that are switched correctly, is it too much to expect that from a $60,000 boat?

It is pretty disappointing to have dead batteries, even after being on shore power for ten hours, and not being able to go fishing as we had planned, because someone at the factory wired the charger wrong. If that failure was noticed when I desperately needed my bilge pump, it would have been more than diappointing, perhaps even disastrous.

I find it especially troubling about the blistering of the green bottoms (we have one, but unblemished) and the factory's response.

It is interesting to note that until this thread appeared, it was pretty much considered anathema to criticize the factory or their product. Yes, I am a C-Dory fan, but it seems that praise should not be a knee-jerk reaction. Let's face the facts and not automatically discount what criticisms are put forth.

Would I buy a C-Dory again? Yes, emphatically! I first ran a C-Dory nearly fifteen years ago and knew that I would buy one if I ever got out of sail. I still believe that it is the best boat out there for our needs, but we are just getting tired of continually putting out more money and time to bring it up to spec, as should have been done originally at the factory.

Marica and I are very proud of Valkyrie and the attention that she garners at every dock, restaurant, gas station and rest stop. Anyone who has been aboard at a Gathering or seen our album knows what pride of ownership we feel for our boat. I just would hate to have the pride of ownership tarnished by someone's carelessness at the factory.

Respectfully,

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Bob – thank you for your attempt in trying to put this in perspective. My post was not directed towards you, nor any individual, so let me try and do a better job of explaining and hopefully I can keep it short.

First off if you or any individual took my post personal, let me apologize for it. It was not directed towards any one individual.

I will speak for my self, others will have to speak for themselves, however I believe the following is why the majority of the members come here. We frequent this site FIRST, because of the people and second the C-Dory. It use to be a fun and informative site, mostly about the C-Dory, but not limited to it exclusively. We talked about our boats, our adventures, our modifications, our plans, our hopes, our fears and even politics, in the proper threads. Lately more and more post in more and more threads have turned negative. If it continues, more and more people will start coming here less and less.

If a person really wanted to help the factory with quality control issues, he/she would not sprinkle their negative comments about the problems they are having, through-out many threads that have nothing to do with the quality of a C-Dory. When we are discussing an adventure in Alaska, or Florida, or a modification we would like to do to our boat, and then someone inserts a negative post about the quality of the boat, it spoils it for everyone.

If you and others want to help improve the C-Dory quality, you could start a thread that dealt exclusively with suggestions about what you think they (C-Dory) needs to do. They (C-Dory) do not have time to read every post on this site to try and determine where there is a quality control issue. How are they suppose to know the Alaska Adventure thread turned into a quality control issue? You can also email the factory or call it with your suggestions, but remember, just because you think they should do something a certain way, does not mean they or others will necessarily agree with you.

I will read threads about issues dealing with the problems C-Dory may be having with their boat production, but I get tired of reading about it in threads that have nothing to do with that issue. Just like politics, I know which threads are political and can read them if I want to.

I hope you and others do not take this as a personal attack but me just trying to explain my earlier post a little better.

Hopefully this will be my last post on this subject.
_________________
Dave dlt.gif
 
I mentioned this issue some time ago in relation to the Honda Goldwing site. The example I used was overheating due to faulty radiator design and capacity, causing the gauge to go into the red zone while riding in 'parade mode' (i.e. stuck in rush hour traffic). I didn't mention the cracked frames (!; yes, you read it right; cracked frames (!) on Honda's flagship luxo-touring bike), an issue that was (astoundingly) denied, and stone-walled by the factory (until the NTSB got serious and forced a recall).

Throughout the heated (no pun intended) discussions, there were many owners who (fortunately) did not have problems. They invariably cast aspersions at those who did, labeling them as 'whiners'. In contrast, those with problems began calling the 'loyal Honda apologists' the 'sunshine boys', who could not bear to admit that maybe Honda was not entirely god's gift to mankind.

Given the very strong bonds among C-Dory owners, the frequent gatherings, etc., I think there is a lot of goodwill between and among the owners, and the factory. However, I hope everyone pays careful attention to where these discussions could lead if owners with, or without problems, fail to acknowledge, and respect the other side's opinions.

As with the Goldwing site, it sounds like many owners here are (justifiably) concerned with the potential negative impact on product reputation, and perhaps market value. And, they don't want to appear to be denigrating the factory. It has been pointed out that many owners have chosen not to post messages for exactly these reasons. At the same time, most of the 'negative' comments have come from very experienced boat owners, and to my mind, have been described very realistically and reasonably.

As an avid reader of this forum, there are many names I have come to respect highly. Oldgrowth is very high on this list, and yet I have to disagree with his recent message that many of these problems are just part of the deal being a boat owner. Remember the days when we all PLANNED on taking our new American cars back to the dealer 3-4 times to get the leaking trunk or windshield fixed? Or the door handle fell off? Or the heater/vent switches weren't connected to anything? This was just expected with every new car . . . Until the Japanese showed everyone how it 'could' (and should!) be done!!

The vast majority of problems listed in this thread could CLEARLY have been identified with a 2-3 hour final inspection before the boat left the factory. Does the battery charger actually CHARGE the battery? (Duh!) A HOSE down of the boat would indicate that "(4) The navigation light was not properly sealed to the topsides and leaks on to the v-berth", and "(5) The thru hull hole for the horn and windshield wiper electrical wires is not caulked and allows water into the cabin in rough seas and during washing." (Duh . . . and duh!) "How about having the windshield wipers connected to the right switches? " (Duh!) How about the head leaking UNDER THE GALLEY!! (DUH!!!)

Granted, boats operate in hostile environments, and these issues will arise over time. And as Oldgrowth says, owners that are not willing to track these items, and repair them as needed, should probably find a new hobby. However, given the universal agreement that the core design is rock solid, these issues just seem so trivial, and so unnecessary, and so (potentially) destructive to the C-Dory reputation, and so easy to remedy, that it seems absurd that they continue to occur. Goodwill is so hard to develop, and so valuable, and yet so easy to erode, it seems it would pay HUGE dividends to insist on a thorough final inspection before letting any boat see the light of day.

Most importantly, we really don't want these issues to turn into a series of debates between the 'whiners' and the 'sunshine boys'. Trust me on this one!

e.g.
 
Here's my take on C-Dorys quality control: First of all I would like to say that we own a 20 year old 22' Angler, 1986. The vessel is rock solid and has been thru some "stuff". I re-powered with a 90 Honda and haven't had any problems with this boat at all. The transom is solid, not a loose screw anywhere, no leaks, no signs of leaks, and it still has the smell of new fiberglass in the V-berth. It has radar, a two burner wallas, fish finder, CB, stereo system and some other small items I added. Pretty simple but it works for me.

Like any factory over time, company's grow and it's hard to maintain that seasoned crew that could build with blindfolds on. Yes, that's what inspectors are for, but when you have alot of change and alot of new employees, there is a learning curve to go thru. I do believe the structural integrity of the hull is about the same on the new boats and all of the other small problems will work out in a short time. If C-Dory has any kind of planning/manufacturing engineering liaison input, there going to be just fine. I'm sure they do. This is the second 22' C-dory I've owned. The first one saved my life. Yep, it gets my seal of approval!
Jon
 
One of the problems in tracing problems on C-Dory is the way they're delivered. On mine, I called Butch in Truth or Consequences, told him to hang a 90 Merc on it with full instruments, and plumb it with 2 batteries and a selector switch and some other things it hadn't come from the factory with. He had a real electrician put the stuff in (I let them know I'd worked in aircraft for years and would inspect it when I got there). Now, it's all worked great -- but -- if the boat is delivered without wipers, a dealer puts them in, they leak, who gets the blame. A wiper motor doesn't work after a week -- who gets the blame? A toilet seat comes off after a week -- who gets the blame? I hope people get the point.

Now I've had intermittant problems with my Wallas, but I don't run here and post every time it fails to light in the "C-Dory Quality Control" thread . . . That ought to go under "Wallas" and preferably not in the general section (should be in the boats).

When people think about quality control -- they think about hulls in boats, and airframes in airplanes -- not a loose hose or the aisle light in row 39B. They think sinking or crashing -- that's why the title is my beef with it.

Problems -- hell yes -- I want to know all about the problems, but I want to know them in the proper perspective. If you got a lemon -- state the name of the boat and we'll try to get you a new one with the ruckus (done before) -- but please don't slime the whole line inadvertantly by putting things in an all in one encompassing thread that will (because of that) stay in front of our noses 24/7 365 days a year in the top one or two positions on the general board.

PS: my cabin door came loose recently (3 years, many trips across America, much rough weather, many many memorable adventures). I tightened the screws and did not make a post about it . . .
 
Seeker":2i1dunaa said:
While I'm cetainly no expert, I do know for a fact that in the three marine climates that I have lived in (South Louisiana, Puget Sound, and S.E. Alaska), any material that can absorb moisture from the atmosphere WILL, not to mention from a direct splash.

One area where there seems to be some disagreement with the factory and myself is sealing the "lid" on the cabin top. Apparently the factory feels that leaving the raw balsa core in the side walls top exposed without sealant, is OK. It may be acceptable in the PNW, but not so in the South where there is year around high humidity, spray getting up into cracks and will eventually cause some core problems, unless sealed.
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I am amazed that a respected boat building company would express, and adopt such a ludicrous policy.

Thank you Dr. Bob.

I'm now looking at other manufactures for my next boat.

Regards,

Law
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Seems like some other boat builders have had their share of problems with cored fiberglass
 
With all due respects to Mr. Pascoe, the chief yacht surveyor above,and his valuable information, and years of experience, I think there are still some places where a balsa cored hull is a workable solution.

C-Dory's open interior space is due in large part to the elimination of struts and bulkheads thru the use of balsa cored hulls and decks. To my thoughts, the larger, esp wider, the span of a cored deck or hull, the greater the possibility of damaging forces and damaging flex.

The long term success and reliability of the CD-22 line indicates that those dimensions must be small enough to avoid serious damaging forces on the balsa cored laminate. The floor of the the cabin and cockpit's being exposed make it obvious where someone has penetrated the balsa core's protective outer coating and also make stress cracks visible.

How wide a beam and how long a foredeck can one design in balsa cored glass without reaching the threshold of damaging stresses? I don't know. Maybe the CD-29?

Admittedly, some past models of the CD-25 (per Dr. Bob's inspections and repairs) had insufficiently supported internal transom components which did result in cracking of the outer transom, BUT the problem rose to the surface pretty much with the cracks' appearances, allowing one to enter and reinforce that area.

I am saying that most of the hull and deck glass skins over the balsa cores are visible and inspectable - much more so than would be the 40-80 foot models Mr. Pascoe uses as illustrations. As such, I think the risk of unrecognized, catastrophic hull damage is significantly less than it would be in multi-floored, multi-decked, inaccessably designed craft.

Again, I have the utmost respect for Mr. Pascoe's expertise. I am not saying he "is wrong". I am saying that in the C-Dory designs you are getting the maximum usable interior and exterior space by using balsa cored decks and hulls. The trade-off for that advantage is exactly what Mr. Pascoe is warning us about - you cannot allow water intrusion into these hulls. Not from the roof. Not from the deck, not from the hull.

These are realatively small craft, spending much time on a trailer, easily open to visible inspection inside and out in most places. ( I don't know much about the CD-29 - The TomCat has some tight inspection places requiring engineering mirrors).

If the core has a problem on most of the CD models, I think some surface sign would arise - staining, moisture, corrosion, stress cracks, flexing. As such, repairs could be made reasonably early. Even on Dr. Bob's used CD-25 which he bought at a big discount due to water intrusion problems secondary to transom cracking, has now been repaired to better than new condition. I am citing this to point out that, even if you have a water intrusion problem on a C-Dory, it is likely to be "fixable". You don't have to trash the boat as you would on some of the huge, complex craft cited by Mr. Pascoe.

As Mr. Pascoe also relates, if you buy a "wood free" hull, you may be in for an even bigger shock and surprise due to the very poor characteristics (as cited by Mr. Pascoe) of the other core alternatives.


In perspective, in reality, the balsa-cored C-Dory design has paid it's dues and provided dependable service to the majority of owners who properly examine and inspect their boats.

John
 
I'm not sure I don't actually prefer the balsa now (in the 22). Keeps it floating like a cork with very little draft. I've had the alternatives (and still do with my other boat). I had to do extensive transom work on a 91 Whaler due to sweating of the hull turning the wood in the transom (it's in there in other places too) to pulp. It has been said over and over the balsa in the C-Dory is encapsulated (blocks of balsa in the glass - water in one block is just that, not the whole boat).

>All you can do . . .<

Many people have taken (and are on) the adventure of a lifetime on these little craft, but if not happy with them, there are certainly other options.
 
Not sure how this old thread was rescurected...but. Most of the transoms of the C Dories in the past were plywood. But the TC 255 is foam, which is fine with the Armstrong bracket--but I hear of some balsa cored transoms. These may have problems if the core compresses. IF balsa or foam is used in cores in transoms, they need to have solid epoxy glass where the bolts go thru--not sure what is being done there.

As for Pascoe. I read and re-read his comments. You have to both understand boats, and Pascoe to get the most information--and there is lots of good information there. But it is easy to mis-interput what he says. And one cannot take it as Gospil Truth...

But, not only is span, important, but even more important is the amount of glass inside and outside of the balsa core. Where many of these boats get in trouble with any core material is to skimp on the amount of glass on either side of the core. So far, to my knowlege, C Dory has put enough glass on the outside (and inside) of the core. Too little glass is what leads to the core break down, as well as the water intrusion or lack of epoxy sealing etc. We hit a container at 8 knots and 8 foot seas at night on a balsa cored racing sailboat--and it saved our lives--the balsa adsorbed the shock and the inner glass didn't break--even though the balsa deflected.

The CD 25's in the 2003 give or take cockpits didn't have enough glass in the floor (in my opinion) we doubled it when we rebuilt the cockpit.

Also even cored have some built in strength--such as the molded V berth area in the CD 22 (and other boats)--this stiffens up the bow, where there can be significant loading.
 
We have a 2007, 22' Cruiser got 105 hrs. on it have only found 1 thing wrong with it, took about 5 min. to correct it.
We have purchased new Motor Homes, New cars, Other boats, and toys for the Grand Kids.
Quality Control can be decribed in a number of ways and how much time on each Product.
Have read about 400 K Motor home problems, new car problems and even toys that would not work out of the box.
These larger things are made 1 at a time with many people doing their on job, one person having a bad day with the boss can be heard from for several years down the road or down the river. Jim
Sorry I was not on your floor topic but went back to the orginal post
 
I spent an hour or so browsing the Pascoe articles last week (from a very naive point of view, I might add). At first glance, he appears to be very negative about cored hulls, but it becomes clear that this is not the case, IF (and this is a big if!), they are designed and built correctly. As Dr. Bob says, Pascoe is not necessarily the gospel, but he's way ahead of most of the rest of us.

Pascoe describes the criteria for good, strong, reliable cored hulls, and the problems that many, if not most mfgs introduce by ignoring these criteria. Many of these problems arose as new techniques were developed and (beta?) tested in past years, while others (with certain notorious mfgs) continue, year after year, despite obvious failures and problems, year after year.

Caveat emptor, of course. It sounds like the C-Dories get most of it right, most of the time.

iggy
 
Hmmm....what I meant to impart was positive about Balsa; from here:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/core_materials.htm



"Balsa, like teak, contains a toxin that fungi doesn't like. It doesn't rot until that toxin leaches away."

"Another Problem: Most foams used in boat building have very low heat distortion values. Basic PVC foam Heat Distortion Temperature is around 150 degrees. That's about the temperature the white deck gets baking under the summer sun. Add some color to the surface and temperatures will begin to soar. I have measured black painted surfaces on boats as high s 237 degrees. That's why you see foam cored boats with painted dark trim, or dark gelcoat colors, that look like a checkerboard. Heat distortion is irreversible. These foams will also begin to stretch or creep when heated, resulting in the laminates loosing their design strength. Structures can actually change shape. The HDT of balsa is 360 degrees."

'Shear Strength: The shear strength of most PVC foams is around 40-60 psi; some are much lower. Balsa is 400 psi. Not much else to say about this."
 
Jim's point about temp is just one of the reaons we used Nida core rather than a foam or balsa for the new cockpit floor of the CD 25. The Nida Core is a hex cell which is extremely thermo stable, as well as not being compressiable nor will it absorb water.
 
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