Cabin Light addition

S

Salmon Fisher

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
895
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C Dory Year
2004
C Dory Model
25 Cruiser
Hull Identification Number
CD025035K304
Vessel Name
Kim Christine
Looking for some feedback on attaching light fixtures to the interior ceiling of the cabin.

I am going to add the Perko exterior dome lights to my cabin interior.
In the new boats, I have noticed they have a wood base affixed to the ceiling somehow. The fixture then is screwed to the wood base, I would think.

I think I will affix the light fixture to the fiberglass roof with foam double stick tape and skip the wood base. Is that a good solution? I know I could use 4200, too.

Thanks in advance.
 
There are some "industrial strength" double sided tapes made by 3M that should hold well. I have some somewhere and will look for the name. I use 4200 on a cleaned surface and mahogany wood for the base. That has worked well for several years.
 
Typical double sided foam tape doesn't work on Still C-razy interiors because of the rough nature of the interior finish. Epoxying a wood block and screwing the fixture to that is a good solution. Of course, you'd better be sure that is the location you want for many years to come.
 
Barry: Do you make your own bases? 1/2" thick?
Potter Water: Yes, definitely! Just will center over the table and also above the sink stove area.

Would putting 4200 on the back of wood base and a couple of pieces of foam double stick tape or a dab or two of long set hot glue work until 4200 sets?
 
The glue gun might be solution. I think I'd just cut some one inch dowel or other scrap wood and wedge the piece in place while the 4200 sets up. Your locations for the lights sounds like you are right over a stable surface for the bottom end of the wedge.
 
potter water":2vdq2qgd said:
The glue gun might be solution. I think I'd just cut some one inch dowel or other scrap wood and wedge the piece in place while the 4200 sets up.
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When epoxying (backing plates and such), I've often just left a small bare spot and then used hot glue there. The hot glue then holds the piece in place while the epoxy (or whatever) cures (no props needed).
 
My CD22 came with four of these lights. One on each side of the cabin (above the sink and above the dinette table). There are also two in the berth, one on each side on the ceiling. They are held in place with two screws each. These are just screwed into the fiberglass. This is the factory installation.

I am going to add one on the bottom side of the overhead shelf above the center of the console. This will also just be screwed in.

I also took out the incandescent bulbs and replaced them with flat LED arrays. The LED switch was suggested in on of these forums.
 
I use long thin pieces of wood bent into bow shapes to compress glue lots of different shapes. If you have a table saw you can make lots of these out of straight grained wood and you can vary the compression strength by the thickness of the rip. I have made these as long as 15 ft to compress finish carpentry work from wall to wall or from floor to ceiling. Small cabin boats are perfect for this. I would rip a stick 3/4 by a 1/4 and have the length about 6 inches longer than the compression distance. Try it in place and shorten it until the force felt about right not too much and not too little. Put the glue on the piece to be glued in place and compress the stick into a bow between the glue piece and the opposite wall and let the glue set up. Some one told me years ago that these were called "go sticks" but I think of them as "stay" sticks.

slowtrot
 
I have found that hot glue, holding in place, until either epoxy or 5200 sets up is the easiest and fastest way to put wooden blocks in place.

If putting in new lights, strongly consider LED lights.
 
ssobol":18ha1lmw said:
My CD22 came with four of these lights. One on each side of the cabin (above the sink and above the dinette table). There are also two in the berth, one on each side on the ceiling. They are held in place with two screws each. These are just screwed into the fiberglass. This is the factory installation.
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One possible caveat: I believe there were several variations of the cabin-top and how it is or if it is cored. Some may not be cored at all (and one doesn't want screws popping out on top!), some are cored in one section but not the other (center vs. side wings), and maybe some are fully cored.
 
I make my own bases and use 4200 with dabs of hot glue at the corners to hold until the 4200 sets up. The hot glue has really worked well. I give the 4200 plenty of time to set, 2-3 days.
 
There is another approach. Instead of attaching a lighting fixture directly to the ceiling, instead attach a fixture to the side, or do what we do and hook the fixture onto the hand rail. At any rate, we shine the beam directly onto the ceiling. We use a 60W equivalent warm light LED Standard base bulb, plugged into our 200 Watt DC/AC converter, and can tell you that this make the entire cabin awash in warm light. It's just a different approach. The advantage is that you get indirect lighting. When we don't want a great deal of light, we use our LED lights which are very adequate. The other advantage of a lighting fixture hooked onto the interior handrail, is that is can be moved to other areas of the boat, or stowed when not in use. We used this light all season.

Rich
 
And the current draw of a 60 watt LED equivalent, thru a 200 watt inverter is? Lets, see we have 110 V of current thru zip cord to some type of lighting fixture not designed for a boat. This does not sound like a good idea.
 
By 60 watt equivalent I think the OP is talking about the number of lumens and that the LEDs put out is as much light as a 60watt bulb. With LEDs the current for this could be quite low. Zip cord has plenty of capacity for a 60 or even 150 watt incandescent bulb in your house (and is likely UL approved), so I wouldn't think it would be a problem in a boat.

I suspect that there are plenty of boats represented in this forum that have 110 vac circuits installed using outlets obtained from the local hardware store without any issues (mine included). I wouldn't think that the installation mentioned has any more problems than some of the other installations that have been described here.
 
Thank you for all the great ideas for my project. This really is the place with the "Helpful C-Dory Men" kind of the like our favorite hardware store, Ace.
Our local Ace Hardware in Arlington, WA is THE place to go for a true hardware store experience, complete with oiled fir floors and the most knowledgeable people on about almost anything for the home.
Each 1st Saturday of the month is Super Saturday, you get 20% off what's not on sale. Free Popcorn, too!
 
Salmon Fisher":iad4f4l6 said:
Each 1st Saturday of the month is Super Saturday, you get 20% off what's not on sale.
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Additionally Patrick, for us guys more aged than you, we get the same 20 percent deal as above on Super Senior Wednesday, which occurs on the 1st Wednesday of each month. :smilep
 
ssobol":ytsv9m76 said:
By 60 watt equivalent I think the OP is talking about the number of lumens and that the LEDs put out is as much light as a 60watt bulb. With LEDs the current for this could be quite low. Zip cord has plenty of capacity for a 60 or even 150 watt incandescent bulb in your house (and is likely UL approved), so I wouldn't think it would be a problem in a boat.

I suspect that there are plenty of boats represented in this forum that have 110 vac circuits installed using outlets obtained from the local hardware store without any issues (mine included). I wouldn't think that the installation mentioned has any more problems than some of the other installations that have been described here.
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The amount of current draw of the LED's is not an issue. Using lamp cord (Zip Cord) is not proper on a boat. The insulation is not adequate, the wire is not marine grade--I hope that none of the boats are using either Zip (lamp cord) or Romex type of wiring. That is improper. Nothing wrong with GFI plugs from the hardware store(I use outdoor grade)--this is what is provided by the factory--with proper marine wiring and installation.

It is objectionable converting 12 volt DC current (which LED's run on), to 110 V AC with an inverter to run LED's. The 110 V current has risk of a shock--or even cardiac arrhythmia / arrest when used in this fashion--how big a risk? Well it takes only 100 ma to cause arrhythmia. There are many factors which might allow for this small current to cause problems. The 200 watt inverter puts out almost 2 amps steady and a surge output of about 4 amps for a short time.

This is also not energy effecient--there is loss converting 12 v DC to 110V AC, then converting 110V AC back to DC of run the LED's. Why not just run 12 V LED's?

I have installed a number of 12 V LED circuits--beyond factory lights, with proper switch, proper marine wiring and fused circuits. It would be very easy to buy a bar of LED's which could be installed to point of the ceiling if the indirect light is desired. The cost of this is less than buying the inverter, fixture and LED light bulb, which fits in the standard 110 V socket. If properly done this avoids the risks of an inverter, 110 V improper fixtures and wiring.

I also have 12 volt LED bars on a long cord--(marine grade wire, vinyl outer sheath, all sealed, and to a marine grade 12 volt Cig type of lighter plug), which can be moved around anywhere in the boat and there is no risk.
 
I use an EcoSmart, 60W-Equivalent, Soft White, 2700K lumens, A19 LED bulb that consumes only 10 watts and has an output of 2,700 lumens, and it draws less than 2 amps in a portable lighting fixture with a heavy cord. Obviously Dr. Bob is right, because electricity and water don't mix. I should point out that electricity is dangerous regardless as to whether or not it is AC or DC. Yes, my power supply draws less than 2 amps. It's really the amperage that can harm you. It is true that a 9 volt radio battery can cause an arrhythmia in heart patients; I have read that micro amperage has been responsible, in fact, for many hospital patient deaths. What I'm doing is no more dangerous than using my power supply in my car, provided I exercise caution and keep everything dry. My Marinaut has a dry cabin, and has 12 Volt outlets inside the cabin. The power supply is placed in a dry spot. I find that any inefficiencies involved in converting DC to AC for my temporary usage is acceptable for me. Personally, involving electricity, I don't want anyone to do what I do. My comment was made to describe what I do, and should not be taken as advice. Further, I don't want the liability. I should not have mentioned it in the first place.

There is a clear warning on my power supply: "Keep the power supply dry. Do not expose it to moisture." I don't use lamp cords. I can see it now, someone wires an internal circuit in their boat with ungrounded, cheap lamp cord to a 1,000 watt power supply that does not know what they are doing. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

As for Dr. Bob, he generally knows what he is talking about, and he tends to be very conservative. One can't go wrong following his advice on this matter.

Rich
 
An A19 60w equivalent LED will generally provide 800 to 900 lumens, not 2700. The reference to 2700k refers to the kelvin number which describes the "temperature" of the light. 2700k provides a "warm" light similar to an ordinary incandescent 60w.
 
yukonjbishop":23x0h7v5 said:
An A19 60w equivalent LED will generally provide 800 to 900 lumens, not 2700. The reference to 2700k refers to the kelvin number which describes the "temperature" of the light. 2700k provides a "warm" light similar to an ordinary incandescent 60w.
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Thanks, you are right of course; I had a brain drain. Actually, it produces 810 lumens, and it is a great deal of light. Our entire cabin is awash in warm, indirect light. As you know, these bulbs are very harsh when one looks directly at them. My main point was that we like to direct the light upwards onto the ceiling to cause the light to reflect indirectly downwards. We have a solid metal shade that only allows light to project forward, which shields our eyes from the bulb. The bulb cost $20. We love it, but only when we need that much light such as when we are preparing dinner or seated at the dinette in activities that require high illumination. Otherwise, we use our more efficient, wired, 12 Volt LED fixtures: one over the galley, one over the dinette and one in the berth.

Thanks for pointing out my error,

Rich
 
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