Economy explained in less than 3 minutes

starcrafttom":39hd6cs0 said:
That we should tax all wage earners equally? E.g. should the wage earner making only say $20,000/year be taxed at the same RATE as those making much more?
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Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! having spent the vast majority of my life earning less then 30k a year and having also been a E1,2,3,and 4( unlike some posters) the answer is yes, yes ,yes
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OK - can we start by making sure that those who make way more than you and I pay at least the same percentage of their adjusted gross income in taxes as I do? At present, those making $10M or more per year pay (on average) a smaller percentage of their adjusted gross income in taxes than I do. Also, I wonder how you would have felt about this when you were making very little. A good deal of the difference in tax rate on adjusted gross income between the rich and poor comes from the number of deductions (personal, kids, mortgage, health expenses) that reduces the adjusted gross income down to near zero taxable income for those with very little income. Get rid of those, and the tax rate will become more equal.

As an aside, I actually tried to join the marines when I was 18 and was rejected for medical reasons so the "unlike some posters" comment is a tad uncalled for.
 
Indeed he has. Being a Professor of Public Policy at UC Berkley and Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration, when reduction of the national debt was a priority, framed by two Bushes, for whom it was not, count as "real jobs," although I know my good friends on the Far Right may choke. Here is a bit of info. Show me one assertion in the YouTube that started this thread that is not true...

Rock-C":221rrhoe said:
Robert B. Rieccccccccccccccch
I wonder if he has ever held down an honest job.
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Most of you are to young to remember in the 70's the gov't. was going to "get" the rich by adding a 10% lux. tax to boats over $1,000,000, this was on top of sales tax. Guess what, the rich took their buss. oversea's (Tiawan) and US boat yards laid off thousands. A few years later they wised up and took the tax off, but it was to late. C-Otter
 
Roger , I only point out the service issue because you did. a altered form of race baiting if you ask me and I dont like it.
For your other question, I felt the same way then as I do now and I dont make much more today, far less then you.

What all this non-sense of the video over looks is that the rich are not chosen, they work to get there. It also over looks the lack of relationship of disparity of income. One man having twice as much as another does not make the the other man poor. Having three times more then another does not make the other man poor.

I have stated that i have not made a lot on money. Susan and I are doing fine. When I was a single father making a third of what we make today I was still doing fine. I never felt poor, I never was poor. It amazed me that other in my tax bracket felt poor or felt that they need the government to take money from others and give it to them to balance things out. Very weird idea in the least.

The biggest health problem for poor out side the U.S. is starvation. The biggest health problem in the U.S. for the poor is obesity??

Robert Reish is wrong on most thing. He is not only using class warfare to frighten people but to pit one group against another when the income of the two groups has nothing to do with one another. This is taught in the false idea that the pie is only so big or there is only one pie. If the rich get richer then some one must have gotten poorer. this false idea has been used by communist and socialist to take control and make everyone poorer. Russia, china ,Cuba, and others have tried this and its never worked out for the middle class or the poor and and has only served to change the faces of the rich and powerful while stripping freedom from people. The chinese are learning the mistakes they made and moving to a more free market society as is much of Europe. German, Spain, France and others have been lowering their taxes and corporate taxes the last few years. We should too to attract jobs here so the middle class will have a place to work .

Pat under the latest bush the U.S. government collected more in taxes every year then in any time in the history of the U.S. A new record every year and still the dem controlled government, you now the ones in charge of spending and budgets, spent more then ever. We need to collect more by having more people working and we need to spend less by cutting out whole areas where the government has no business combined with reducing over head.

Now we can point fingers and go left against right but I think that is what Reich and his masters want. Why not instead we look for a really answer and ask real questions like " should we be taxing income in the first place" my answer is no. it is counter productive to tax the income of anyone. Only spending should be taxed. it is far better for the growth of the economy to allow people to spend more of THIER income and tax their spending then to tax them on their income. allowing the people to spent the money first will create more jobs. When that great conservative pres. Kennedy slashed taxes on the rich it created prosperity and a increase in the middle class through job growth.

those are my thoughts and this is all I'm going to say. if you have questions or comments please email or p.m. me. I will return to boating now.
 
I like toms' idea. Taxing income is becoming very difficult. The rich have a multitude of legal methods to avoid tax. The middle class and the poor, way less. I once worked several years for a heavy civil contractor and he heard one of his accountants bragging in the office one day that last year they only paid $1 in income tax. He was promptly fired. They weren't supposed to pay any tax. Middle income folks like me working for wages have little alternative on paying taxes. I will retire in a few days and will edge closer to lower or lower middle income and my accountant has stunned me with the taxes I will have to pay on very little income. But if I would fall into the realm of the poor you folks would be returning a generous tax refund to me, even though I had little or no income. Not right!!!
 
While we're at it, lets explore equal justice for both rich and poor Americans. http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln9aa10UAg1qzqlvro1_500.png.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"

Equal Protection Of The Law

The right of all persons to have the same access to the law and courts and to be treated equally by the law and courts, both in procedures and in the substance of the law.
Iguess some are more equal than others.
 
Dave,
You are missing the point and the point affects your new endeavor. If the middle class goes away, who is going to buy a Marinaut? The extremely wealthy don't buy C-Dory style boats. You build a middle class boat. A 200-300 thousand income threshold is not wealthy. I'm are talking billionaires that are ruling the country. Fortune 500 companies, Wall Street, and the banking industry run America. GE made 7 billion dollars last year and paid no taxes. Four people received 2% of the total Bush tax cuts. Yes the Waltons. The same ones that won't hire full time employees so they don't have to provide health insurance. The same ones who buy the majority of the crap they are peddling from China. The same ones who are responsible for many factories moving to China with American jobs. If the middle class disappears, so will the America as we know it. We will be no different than a country like Saudi Arabia ruled by a wealthy family of kings and princes. This is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue. As Ralph said, the only difference between the two parties is how fast their knees hit the floor when corporate America knocks on their door (or something like that). We need a third party that will stand up for the middle class and balance the damn budget.
Forrest
 
All State and Local Taxes Paid as a Share of Income 2010 (50 State Average)

Bottom 20% 12.3%
Second 20% 11.6%
Middle 20% 11.2%
Fourth 20% 11.1
Next 19% 10.7
Top 1% 7.9%

86% of all working households paid more in Federal Payroll Taxes than in Federal Income Tax. (2008)

Bottom 20% paid an average of 8.8% of total income
Top 1% paid an average of 1.6%

Institute on Taxation and Ecomonic Policy
 
forrest":1o4iwqzo said:
Dave,
You are missing the point
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Big Mack – I was not trying to make a point. I was just trying to stick to the facts and let the chips fall where they will. I agree with you we need to change administrations. I don’t think a third party will do it. It has never worked in the past and will not now. You have to take over one of the two major parties’. Find the one whose values are closest to yours and work to change it. I am like Tom; I will not play this class warfare game that is being promoter by those that think someone should give up more of their hard earned money for the benefit of some the government has deemed worthy of it, like GM, the banks, or some lazy slob that will not work. I am really tired of the class warfare game being promoted and played by our politicians and special interest groups. There are bad rich people just like there are bad poor people, but just because you are rich does not make you bad.

Robbi":1o4iwqzo said:
86% of all working households paid more in Federal Payroll Taxes than in Federal Income Tax. (2008)
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Robbi – you can find any number you want on some web sites but you have to know what you are looking at. That 86% means nothing when you consider close to 50% of the tax payers paid very little or no income tax. So if you have Social Security, Medicaid or other social services taxes withheld in any amount, it will be more than your income tax.

AGI in this chart = Adjusted Gross Income
income-tax.jpg

Dave dlt.gif
www.tolandmarine.com
 
Robert Reish is wrong on most thing. He is not only using class warfare to frighten people but to pit one group against another when the income of the two groups has nothing to do with one another. This is taught in the false idea that the pie is only so big or there is only one pie. If the rich get richer then some one must have gotten poorer. this false idea has been used by communist and socialist to take control and make everyone poorer. Russia, china ,Cuba, and others have tried this and its never worked out for the middle class or the poor and and has only served to change the faces of the rich and powerful while stripping freedom from people.
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One can find many reasons to disagree with Reich, but to suggest that he is using "class warfare" or to equate him with communists and socialists is just wrong -- both on the facts and the intent. Liberals love America too. Even university professors.
 
Is there no group or website you can go to these days that doesn't have Tea Party idiots or Move On.Org idiots spouting the usual slanted and biased opinions?

Both sides have some good ideas and a lot of bad ones. Both sides better figure out how to work together pretty soon or just watch China become what we used to be economically.

As one "in the middle" on this stuff, I'm tired of the beligerance of both sides.

Oh, and apologies to idiots for using them to describe the far right and far left.
 
Well, "Mom" has not had to step in here, so that is somewhat of an advance! The discussion has not been acrimonious, and Tom, Mark, Dave, Roger, Robbi and I still can all sit down and have a beer together. In fact, Patty and I are having dinner with Tom and Susan tomorrow night, I am pretty sure Reich won't even come up!
 
Yeah Pat,

I think what is important is not that we all agree with each other but that we treat each other with respect. Discussing important issues only with people who agree with you would be pretty boring. I have even been known to change my mind on occasion when presented with a good argument with a sound basis.

With a few exceptions, I think this has been a respectful discussion. There are good points on both sides. The one possible pitfall, that you find in many such dissussions, is that with these sensitive issues people often over-interpret or project the meanings and motives of others. It is always better to stick to the facts presented.

Harper
 
starcrafttom":1798s7u6 said:
Roger , I only point out the service issue because you did. a altered form of race baiting if you ask me and I dont like it.
For your other question, I felt the same way then as I do now and I dont make much more today, far less then you.
<stuff clipped>
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An altered form of "race baiting"?! I was simply pointing out that the amount one makes influences the percentage one pays under our current progressive tax rates. Since an E2 makes very little, he or she will pay proportionally less taxes than say I do (and by the way I think that's the way it should be).

My point was that how much one pays in taxes does not equate to one's contribution to our well being (as a previous poster suggested). I'm sure you and I both agree that the typical private contributes to our well being.
 
rogerbum":270hla7m said:
starcrafttom":270hla7m said:
Roger , I only point out the service issue because you did. a altered form of race baiting if you ask me and I dont like it.
For your other question, I felt the same way then as I do now and I dont make much more today, far less then you.
<stuff clipped>
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An altered form of "race baiting"?! I was simply pointing out that the amount one makes influences the percentage one pays under our current progressive tax rates. Since an E2 makes very little, he or she will pay proportionally less taxes than say I do (and by the way I think that's the way it should be).

My point was that how much one pays in taxes does not equate to one's contribution to our well being (as a previous poster suggested). I'm sure you and I both agree that the typical private contributes to our well being.
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Roger,

I'm that other poster who spoke about contributions to our general well-being. Even though the actual post limited my comments to "financial contributions toward our general well-being" I think you are basically right and that I used the wrong term. Many who don't pay Federal Income Taxes indeed contribute to our general well being as you point out. The problem I was attempting to address is the proven downhill direction that occurs when voters who don't have an immediate and responsible financial stake in National policy outnumber those voters who do. Financially successful citizens are who make our Capitalistic system work and if spreading the wealth takes their investment initiative and fiscal incentives away then where are we all?

Harper
 
Pat Anderson":2uyj711y said:
Well, "Mom" has not had to step in here, so that is somewhat of an advance! The discussion has not been acrimonious, and Tom, Mark, Dave, Roger, Robbi and I still can all sit down and have a beer together.
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I have had only one serious "issue" w/ anyone on this site and that was an extreme personal insult to my intregrity & reputation. A few of my interactions may have been passionate, but none were ever meant to be personal attacks towards anyone. I've always had a good time w/ those same Brats who I socialize w/ at get togethers and such. In other words: I don't hold a grudge over discussions like this. If we ALL thought alike it'd be a very scary place and I don't think I'd like it much.

I think we can all agree the current level of gov't spending is not sustainable. It's finding a solution where all the angst starts. :|
 
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