Electric Brakes

Hi Dave, I may have overstated the mileage. I'll let you do the math. Last year I took the boat/trailer out to the San Juans. This year I took it out to Lake Powell, and then up to the North Channel. (I live just outside of Madison Wi). It's made numerous trips to Door County & Lake Michigan, been to Lake Cumberland, St. Louis, Dubuque several times, Northern Wisconsin a few times. And countless local trips. All on that same set of brakes seen in the pictures. As for technology. Won't argue your point on being cheap. I can replace the entire brake plate assembly (everything you see in one photo, not including the drum) for $40. Times 4 is a set of brakes for a tandem axle trailer under $200. (That's for Dexters. I can do cheaper at Amazon, but then you get what you pay for...) I didn't price drums, but I believe they are around $30. How much are discs again? And SS? As for safety, the purely electric have worked flawlessly for me, not only on this boat trailer, but two other boats/trailers I owned in the past. True, I'm a fresh water sailor, so I'm just going to leave it at that. Now if I had a lot more money, I probably wouldn't own the CD-22, and chances are what I would own, wouldn't need a trailer! :mrgreen: JMHO! :-) My point is that there is nothing wrong with all electric brakes, if maintained, (at least in fresh water use) and they are the least expensive of brakes available. I also agree stainless steel discs are great. But at an added expense, that may or may not be justified. I'm simply sharing my experience with the electric brakes, for anyone else that might be considering them as an cost effective alternative to the more expensive EOH or Disc. And from what I hear, it sounds like the EOH are showing to have occasional issue with the pump. Either EOH or Electric will always be superior to surge! A perfect brake to me would be electric disc! (Why not, we have electric trim tabs?) Colby
P.s. Kind of like our boats. There are other boats out there that offer much better performance than the 22' C-Dory. But we like our boats because they work well (very well) for how we intend to use them. I look at this argument on brakes the same way. For me, the all electric brakes work well (very well) for how I use them! :P
 
Molly Brown":1cgzlm79 said:
Please expound on how you flush after launch? I've never been to a public ramp where fresh water is available, certainly not for a trailer wash. I've always assumed that you carry a tank of fresh water in the truck or have some kind of portable sprayer. Even so, I can't see how you could carry enough water for a thorough flush. I always rinse on returning from the ramp but that doesn't help with the launch. I've wondered about this for years but have never asked the question. I can confirm that I have never seen anybody flushing brakes at the ramp before. Unfortunately we only lauch in fresh water once a year for the St.John's gathering.

Hoping your response isn't so obvious that I look stupid :-)
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I am probably pretty spoiled because both of the launch ramps that I have annual passes for have washdown racks. (Sequim's John Wayne Marina and Boat Haven in Port Townsend.) In fact, PT Boat Haven leaves their hoses out year around, That is the main reason I keep an annual permit there.

So how do I do it. back down the ramp, release the boat, secure it to the dock, and then pull the empty trailer directly to the wash deck where I hose off the whole trailer, and especially the hubs, wheels and fenders.. Availability to wash after the dunk has a huge bearing on whether I will launch at a particular site. George is right, wash decks are harder to come by in Canada. I don't carry a portable sprayer, but I do carry my own hose, so that I have a usable end to attach my "Y" hose to flush both engines at the same time.

Hope that helps,


Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I carry a small sprayer containing a small mixture of Salt Away. After launching Journey On, I spray the disks and calipers, because it sits for a couple of days. I spray again after hauling Journey On out. I think it really helps. Wash with fresh water after I get home. That way I really don't care if there is a fresh water washdown.

It's easy to spray the brakes with the boat off and difficult with the boat on, but perseverance pays off. Also, don't talk to anyone whilst doing the spray. Some guy wanted to talk about C-Dorys, I had my cap off on the trailer and forgot to retrieve it before leaving. That conversation cost $25.

Hope to launch in fresh water this week at lake Powell. the trailer, boat and motor probably aren't going to know what to do without salt in the water.

Boris
 
Pulled my electric brakes off the boat trailer today, as I decided to replace them with new. I also wanted to add a fresh water rinse system, and will start another thread on that shortly. It's now been 5 seasons on these brakes, and as you can see, they are actually still going strong. Really didn't need to replace them, but already had the new ones.

This first photo is of the rear right hand brake.
A1_5_Yr_Old_Brakes.jpg

The next photo shows the drum condition.
A2_Brake_Drum.jpg

And the last photo is just a shot of all 4 brakes after trailer removal.
A3_5_Yr_Old_Brakes.jpg
 
Hm, the bottom two are a darker colour and I would assume that the colour comes from brake dust. Does it?

If so, I would guess that only the darker set is braking, since that's the only one with dust. Or, did you clean off the dust in the top ones?

Boris
 
colbysmith":261xb2d1 said:
however I did run into one problem with the transmission oil overheating.
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Colby, this has no doubt been remedied since you wrote this but just a couple of thoughts. If a truck does not have the factory trailer tow package - you may have to upgrade the tranny cooler. Also never tow without the overdrive(if equipped) defeated. Your engine may have plenty of power to pull but the combination of heavy load/low rpm will cause the tranny fluid to run hotter lowering the life expectancy of the tranny. As for fuel economy doing this - I pulled a U Haul trailer out west years ago with my 6.5 turbo diesel and got better mileage going west with O.D. off than coming back - no trailer and O.D. engaged!

Regards, Rob
 
Good catch Boris, I started to say something in my post with the photos, but wasn't sure exactly why the color difference. I tend to agree with your thought that that axles brakes were not working. Or could have been I had them adjusted much looser so the front axle was doing most the work. (The darker ones came off the front axle.) I did check the operation of the new brakes, and know that all 4 are in fact energized. And the old ones were still providing a lot of stopping power, even if only two were actually doing the work.
One thing to point out for the naysayers about electric brakes, notice the magnet is still all intact with no pitting or breakdown. But no saltwater dunkings on this trailer either, other than the brackish St. John's River a few times, the brackish Sacramento River and retrieving the boat at Astoria a few weeks ago. Colby
 
Rob, I no longer tow with the Highlander. I finally found a nice F150! :D However, the Highlander did have a tow package. The problem with the one time tranny overheating was due to repeated accelerations from 30mph to 60 mph after having to slow down repeatedly, on a +7% grade in high elevation. And on a relatively warm day. It finally overheated on the 3rd acceleration. I suspect this would happen to many tow vehicles towing at their max weights... The F150 I purchased did NOT come with the factory tow package. (Which only means no aux tranny cooler, trailer hitch & plug or trailer brake controller. It still has the "tow" mode and was prewired for most the connections needed.) I did install a good hitch and 7 pin plug, and after market brake controller. After two trips with the boat out west over the mountains, I see no need for the aux tranny cooler. 8) While I felt very comfortable towing with the Highlander, the F150 does a great job, and it would be hard to go back to towing long distance with the Highlander. :mrgreen: Colby
 
Been a few years, and thought I'd stir the pot again. :mrgreen: I'm in the process of purchasing a new trailer, and it will have Electric over Hydraulic (EOH) disc brakes. Only because Load Rite doesn't do pure electric brakes. One thing I've seen from experience with C-Traveler's trailer this year, which has Disc brakes, is that they run hotter, thereby needing longer to cool down before backing the trailer in the water or sucking more water into the bearings. Another thread recently talked about disc brake drag. And I don't think I'm the only one that has lost a caliper going down the road somewhere. I've also noticed there is some delay between when I apply my truck brakes and when the EOH system kicks in. Not much of a delay mind you, but more so than I've noticed with pure electric. Someday, when the EOH system starts costing me money in repairs, I'll probably just pull it and replace it with all electric. Anyway, I just came across this article. Enjoy. :) Colby

https://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2016/11/electric-brakes-for-your-boat-trailer.html
 
Well that blog should get the old topic going well.
Offering comments without personally experiencing an all electric brake system used in fresh and salt water launching situations should be used cautiously.
Opinions are just that.
Ultimately, it is personal preference based on personal experience, and personal experience of doing ongoing maintenance of your equipment.
I have to admire Colby, he puts a lot of miles on his trailer and boat. Experience and owner hands getting dirty.
Hands On Guy !

Now we sit back and read !
 
Colby is the epitomy of a "trailer boater".
Interesting that the EOH trailer brake has a delay. I would thing that would not be. Any idea why it is occurring?

I am considering upgrading my trailer brakes to 4 wheel, vs 2, and EOH or Surg.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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My only guess is perhaps time for the actuator to pressurize the brake line after getting the electric impulse from the controller. Or could just be my brake controller settings. But I think the settings are ok.
 
Hardee,

Those EOH brakes are driven when (my) brake controller senses an electrical signal from the vehicle brake, then generates another electrical to the pressure generator on the trailer. This generator contains an electrically driven hydraulic pump, operated from the vehicle 12v. This builds up hydraulic pressure and moves the brake pucks in the caliper.

Is it any wonder that there is some delay? It's on the order of 1-2 sec, I estimate.

Nevertheless, EOH brakes are the best way to stop that boat/trailer I've encountered. They operate as a result of applying the vehicle brake, are disk with all those benefits and DON'T operate when I'm backing up or going downgrade. I've been towing boats for 45 years and used no brakes, surge brakes and EOH.

Boris
 
I have never "timed" the controller/E/H, but when I use the controller only, there seems to be an almost immediate effect--not the full effect, but can notice the drag. Faster than surge brakes; far better control. It is certainly possible that pure electric is faster.
 
Those EOH brakes are driven when (my) brake controller senses an electrical signal from the vehicle brake, then generates another electrical to the pressure generator on the trailer. This generator contains an electrically driven hydraulic pump, operated from the vehicle 12v. This builds up hydraulic pressure and moves the brake pucks in the caliper.
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Boris provides a very simplistic description here. In the old days, I think most controllers got their signal from the brake light switch, and then a pendulum or de-acceleration monitor within the controller provided the appropriate current to the trailer brakes to activate them with relative pressure to the tow vehicles brakes. However, life has gotten more advanced, and so have controllers. :mrgreen: This blog offers a good description of the brake controllers out there now and how they work. I have Ford's factory installed controller in my pickup, and as for general operation, I think it works a lot like the Tekonsa aftermarket controllers I've used in the past.

https://www.rv.net/SharedCode/ford/output.cfm?id=2973835

The above just discusses brake controllers. The newer controllers will work with electric or electric over hydraulic. The main difference to me is that electric is currently only available with drum and shoe brakes. Whereas EOH can work with any system that uses hydraulics. (Drum/shoe or Disc/pads.) Of course using an EOH system with drum brakes is really a big waste of money in my books, as you are not gaining anything. In fact, I think EOH on a drum system is inferior to an electric system. To me the discussion regarding electric vs EOH is simply one of drums vs disc. I accept that disc is advantageous to drum in stopping power and ease of rinsing and seeing brake condition - depending upon type of wheel. But it's also a much more expensive system. Whereas an electric system is going to be much more cost efficient and still do a good job. It will be harder to rinse the brakes with fresh water, or to see their condition. However with a fresh water rinse system installed, that alleviates the one disadvantage. Regardless which system you have, including surge, preventive maintenance will play a factor in how well and long your brakes work and last. Colby
 
I have Ford's factory installed controller in my pickup, and as for general operation, I think it works a lot like the Tekonsa aftermarket controllers I've used in the past.
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From the article, and my understanding of the Ford system:

Ford’s integrated controller electronically tracks hydraulic pressure inside the vehicle’s master cylinder and uses the pressure, along with vehicle speed, to modulate the amount of current produced for trailer brakes. Thus, the system accurately follows tow-vehicle braking with more at high pedal pressure, less at low, even to the point of using ABS. If the wheels of the tow vehicle are slipping, ABS goes into action for the tow vehicle as well as the trailer.
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Don't see how an after makes such as the Tekonsa (which I have used on the RV with E/H when I had the 22), can be the same as a unit which senses hydraulic pressure. I. have the Ford system in my 250. It is difficult to compare with a lighter boat towed by a much heavier vehicle with air brakes, but the Ford systems seems more "responsive", and better.
 
"General operation". What I meant was the Ford controller and Tekonsa's are alike in that they proportion the amount of braking to what the vehicle's braking is doing. Ford's system using it's own master cylinder electronics, and Tekonsa using de-acceleration. Perhaps I'm being way to general there. :) The Ford system is much more sensitive to the vehicles brake operation since it's taking readings right off the master brake cylinder. Either way, after finding and reading that article to come more up to date on more modern systems, it makes a little more sense of why the Ford factory controller is relatively expensive. There are three settings available for the brakes, being Low, Medium and High. I think there is a way to tweak that a bit more as well, but I'd need to get into the operating manual. The controller works well on either electric or EOH brake systems.
 
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