Engine problem and question

P

pat.jack

New member
Hi folks,
I am wondering if some of you can share what the symptoms are of 'bad gas'. I'm thinking I have a problem due to this. I drove our boat the other day and could not get it above 2,000 rpm with it stalling out. I managed to limp back to the marina. I was not able to restart the engine after I docked the boat. To try and isolate the problem I purchased and tried using a portable 6 gallon tank and managed to start the engine with the new gas. The engine is now running very rough, and will not idle without stalling, so it's not possible to put the boat in gear.

As background info, I took the boat to a Honda dealer and had them service the engine 3 weeks ago. The carburetors were rebuilt due to the boat not being properly winterized over last winter. There has been gas sitting in the tanks for about 10 months. Some of the gas in the tank was stabilized ethanol. The Honda dealer was supposed to have tested the gas in the tank, but I suspect that might have been overlooked. The boat ran fine for an hour before this latest problem surfaced. I'm wondering if running the boat for that 1 hour may have fouled the fuel system again.

I'd appreciate your experience on this.
Regards,
Jack Howell
 
If the shop got the carbs cleaned out, removed any varnished or gunny gas from them, and it was running then getting it back running should not be hard.

1. remove and dry the plug in case you got water or fouled.
2. remove and drain any filters. You should have at least on on the motor itself and one more before the motor.
3. drain the gas from the tank and start with fresh.
4. drain the carbs.

You should be able to do this much your self before spending any more at the shop
 
Since you have a portable gas tank, add your favorite cleaner (I use SeaFoam)..... run for few minutes then turn off allow the cleaner to work for 30 min - 60 min, then re start
It might improve operation
 
I have never used ethanol in my marine engines, but I made the mistake of using it in my tiller, mowers, and pressure sprayer. After setting up all winter, all of them had to have carb rebuilds. Chalky dust in every carb bowl and the bowl insides corroded.

On carbureted outboards, I always run the gas out of the carb before loading the boat. ( Disconnect the fuel hose from the engine and let it run until it dies.) I have been a boater for 50 or so years and, because of this technique, have never had an engine not crank right over, even after a long storage. BUT AGAIN, I NEVER RUN ETHANOL.
 
I run ethanol gas in my motors because you just cant get anything else with out driving or paying thur the nose. I run all my gas carbed motors dry and have no problems. you may have to add a shut off valve to all of them but its worth it. I hope that some day soon we stop the stupidity that is ethanol gas. Waste of time money and corn for no positive effects.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I will be heading out to the boat with my son shortly, and will give some of these ideas a try.

To answer a few questions asked-some of the gas was E-10 in the tank-all stabilized. The gas was about 10 months old. I do have a Racor external filter on the boat. I did add sea-foam to the external tank. Who knows, maybe it has done some good after sitting over the night.

Regards,
Jack Howell
 
starcrafttom":3ickvswl said:
I run ethanol gas in my motors because you just cant get anything else...I run all my gas carbed motors dry and have no problems. you may have to add a shut off valve to all of them but its worth it.
Click to expand...

Although I'll go to great lengths to get "pure" gas, this week I have to run ethanol gas or not run at all (Powell). There is one place in Page on the Pure Gas website, so I should be able to at least "purify" what's in the tanks - but that still leaves the engines. I can run the Honda kicker dry by disconnecting the clip-on hose (and then drain the carbs), but there is no disconnect for the main engine (Yamaha). The fuel line simply runs into the engine and to the integral Yamaha fuel filter (under the cowling).

So, a question about how to run the Yamaha dry. The way my fuel system is set up, the "big" Racor filter is mounted on the splashwell, and thus is between the C-Dory fuel selector valve and the engines, so I'm presuming just turning that valve to off is not the way (because I would have to run the Racor dry....).

So, in my boat it's like this:

C-Dory fuel selector valve
Line through boot to Racor in splashwell
Line with bulb to Honda 8 (no problem as line quick clips to engine)
Line with bulb to Yamaha (no clip).

Could I just manually pinch the Yamaha line to stop fuel flow? (Maybe not good for the hose even if it would work?).

If I install a valve, it would be "free floating," because the line from the Racor to the Yamaha is not attached to anything (moves when engine moves). What kind of valve have you (or anyone) used in this setting? Would I put it before (plenty of room) or after (a bit tight) the bulb?

I take it there is no need to supply air to avoid a suction, and that the motor just (somehow?) runs dry? (In my youth we ran small two-strokes dry all the time, but I never thought about the physics of it then.)

This will be my first time running the engines dry and draining the carbs myself.

Thanks,
Sunbeam
 
Sun beam. Is your engine carburated or fuel injected? why does it not have a fuel disconnect? My 225 in injected and does not have a fuel disconnect because you do not want to run a injected motor dry. dont know your motor so just asking.
 
pat.jack":3ite1hej said:
Hi folks,
I am wondering if some of you can share what the symptoms are of 'bad gas'. <stuff clipped>
Click to expand...

Jeez - this seems like an opening line that is perfect for a reply from BC. Yet none has been posted.... :lol:

For me, it's usually feeling a little bloated and perhaps with some stomach discomfort. Then I often find I'm all alone as others have left the room.
 
Jack, The website "Pure-Gas.com" lists by "state" gas stations where you can purchase 100% gasoline without ethanol added. Then once you clean the very small idle jet passages in the carburetors, never use gas with ethanol again (or) switch to a fuel injected outboard motor!
 
Jack, The website "Pure-Gas.com" lists by "state" gas stations where you can purchase 100% gasoline without ethanol added. Then once you clean the very small idle jet passages in the carburetors, never use gas with ethanol again (or) switch to a fuel injected outboard motor!
 
Hi folks,

Just for an update, after letting the engine sit Saturday night-with the external gas tank-and sea-foam added, I started the engine Sunday morning. The idle was much improved after sitting with the sea-foam in the gas. After letting it idle for awhile (10-20 minutes) we took it out of the marina. Unfortunately, once I tried to power the boat much beyond idle speed, (about 1200rpm) it started to die-then stalled. So, I limped back to the dock. I plan to head out to the boat again sometime today and take a shot at draining the carbs-assuming there is water in the bowls. I was wondering if the fuel filter would need to be replaced also? The fuel filter on my engine looks to be a bit of challenge to pull out-are there any tips on pulling that? (I'm talking about the fuel filter that sits at the base of the engine on my Honda 90-not the external racor filter).

By the way-BrentB-looks like your idea of letting the sea-foam sit for awhile seems to work-at least the idle was much improved.

Roger--good point on the 'bad gas'!

In any event, I'd like to see if I can get the boat running before we put it up for the winter! At least I met another boater in my marina who has a similar engine(a 1999 Honda 90) and he gave me a lead on a mechanic who he has used that would travel to my marina. That's at least an option if this gets beyond my ability--which is not saying much at this point!
Regards,
Jack Howell
 
Yeah, pull that filter on the engine. On my IB, one time I let it sit with unstabilized fuel in the system, and all the filters needed replacement.
 
Of note, often fuel-water separators will restrict or stop the flow of fuel once the water hits the interface of the filter media. If you racor has a drainable lower bowl, I would do that. If not, I would make sure it has a fresh filter. Similarly, the internal filter on the engine should either poured out, or preferably replaced. Then crack the carb drains and empty them. It would not hurt to pump the primer with them open and drain a little gas through the bowls. Then close them up and try the boat. The engine is either starving for clean fuel or once again has main jets plugged.

I would also empty the main tanks by polishing the fuel through the fuel water separator. This will rid most of the water contamination from bad fuel. The emptier that the tank gets, the higher the concentration of water will be left. The last amounts of fluids drained from the tank will be the most contaminated.
 
Thanks for the latest responses.

Digger, I think I have the Racor fuel/water filter 'out of the loop' at this point-by plugging in my external tank with new-non ethanol gas. I'm sure I need to service that as suggested, but I don't think it is part of my current problem. I'm hoping that draining the carbs will help-and either replace or drain the fuel filter mounted on the engine. As far as the gas in my main tanks-I'm not familiar with term 'polishing the gas' --- "I would also empty the main tanks by polishing the fuel through the fuel water separator". Could you explain that further? I was thinking of getting an appropriate container and siphoning the gas out of my tanks when I pull the boat out. I talked with the folks at my County regarding contaminated fuel and I figure I would dispose of it with them. I'm estimating I have about 7-to-8 gals of fuel I would need to dump.

Were there any tips on getting at the fuel filter on the engine? It looks like the fuel line clamps are tough to get at.
Regards,
Jack [/i]
 
Polishing the fuel is simply running the fuel through the f/w separator. As it does that, the fuel should be relatively clean. I would use it in lawn mowers, etc. You should be able to pull the internal engine filter up to get to the clamps. Many engines have side cowlings that must be removed to access either the fuel or oil filters.
 
Three weeks of non use is all it takes to keep a Honda carbed motor with bad gas from running correctly . Another pitfall is the emulsion tubes . If the dealer didn't change em with a "rebuild" then you will never get it to run right without new ones . They will have almost imperceptible cracks in the brass tubes. We see this with shade tree mechanics all the time .
All these "home remedies" everyone is suggesting will do no good if the emulsion tubes are gone . If they were varnished then ran again and they did change em , you'll be changing them again, as they simply burst when clogged and operated.
No ethanol fuel stabilized or not will be any good at 10 Mos.
Seafoam is a really overpriced and over rated product [Naptha and Rubbing Alcohol in a Pale Oil base] developed a long time ago. It is not the answer in modern outboards, especially Hondas . Its fine in the old 2 strokes with jets the size of your pinkie finger.
Pale Oil 64742-54-7 40.00- 60.00 %
Naphtha 64742-49-0 25.00-35 %
IPA 67-63-0 10.00 - 20.00 %

Marc
 
Marc,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my request for help. I had not heard of 'emulsion tubes' before. I will ask my local Honda dealer about this. He did rebuild the 4 carbs.

To be honest, I was a bit disappointed he did not pursue the old gas I had in the tanks when I brought it in for repair-since I pointed it out and shared that I thought this was the cause of the issue. I also appreciate your thoughts on sea foam and it's use on Honda outboards.

Hey-maybe you can open a service outlet in Upstate NY--you'd get my business!
Seriously, thanks for your help.
Regards,
Jack Howell
 
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