Flares ? What do you use ?

S

SEA3PO

New member
I was going through my Safety stuff and decided to replace my fire extingusher as it was 5 years old and my flares...also five...they are supposed to be replaced every 3 years... but when I went to West Marine I found that they were $28.95 for the three shot gun shell flares...Yeow ! thats a bunch for three shells that I never use....plus I already have 9 in the boat.. (all expired)...

We are supposed to have some sort of night signaling device aboard, but I sure would like to have something a bit cheeper...

I wonder... what do others do ??

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Joel,

I buy new shells every few years as my old ones expire. I do keep a few old ones on board as backup but NOTE coast guard regs not only require non-expired signaling devices they require expired ones to be stored in a location that is separate from the current ones. E.g. you can't keep the old ones and the new ones in the same place. The logic is that if you really need to send a signal, you may not get too many chances at it and you want to be sure you're using a good device.

As far as spending so much money on something you never use, that's a good thing. Just like insurance you want it to be there IF you really need but let's hope you never do.

OH - and when you buy look through the stock that is out (maybe even look at one or two stores) and make sure that what you are buying isn't already 1/2 way towards being expired. They should have a 3-4 year life span but I have found some shells/flares at WM on the same shelf that had a 1 year already gone.
 
Joel, it is my understanding that it is not a requirement to have the aeriel (ie: shotgun type) flares. Therefore if you have current regular day/night flares then you are in compliance.
I've got so much outdated signaling devices in my boat, that I'm beginning to think that I'm one of them.... :wink.
 
Yes I think that is what I am going to do...just buy some hand held flares...
What is the requirement ? is it 3 or will just one fulfill the requirement... I don't go out at night... but it does not matter to the inspector, they just say you have to have them...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
The flares are called "visual distress signals" in officialese. Dave is right that you do not need the aerial flares. VDS can be handheld flares,floating orange smoke, parachute flares, handheld orange smoke. There are also Orange flags with a solid black square over a solid black circle and special flash;lights that flash the morse code for SOS when turned on.

What you do need is a total of three signalling devices for day or night. That can be three daytime, i.e. smoke or flag plus three nighttime, i.e. flares, flashlight or you can combine and carry three day/night signals, the flares. That is why many people just carry three flares, they do for both day and night.

I carry both flares and smoke, the smoke will be visible in daylightfor a lot longer than a flare and the flares are really the only way to go for nightime.

Yes they cost a lot but as has been said they are cheap insurance. I will be replacing six smoke and handheld flares this year and expect to pay about $125-150 to do so.
 
I guess that the type of boating that you "plan" on doing can dictate the type of emergency equipment that you routinely carry. However, the word "emergency" it means that a lot of stuff has gone to **** and what was planned has gone awry, with potentially dire consequences.

A good friend of mine was a career Coastie and whenever he got another assignment I was often invited to spend up to a week on his new ship or shore assignment. For a time he was based in the Baltimore area and in charge of SAR. One night I was able to observe a test of flares and was amazed how ineffective they were in attracting attention, even the 12 gauge types. Their attention-attracting value also assumes that someone is watching that area of the sky. Also, while one flare might attract attention, more may be needed to guide rescuers to your location. Even looking 90 degrees away from the flare kept observers from seeing it, so the idea of carrying only the minimum number is assuming a lot. While using handheld flares may meet the requirement, holding a flare at sea level with six foot waves makes sighting the flare haphazard at best.

On Valkyrie we carry at least nine 12 gauge flares, six handheld flares, some smokes, floating smokes, two dye canisters and four SOLAS grade self-contained parachute flares. In addition, both of our personal PFD's are equipped with a whistle, a pouch with three Skyblazers, a Personal Locater Beacon, an LED flashlight and a strobe.

Expensive? Yes, but we rotate the gear and having been hammered big time by the Great Lakes with winds to 60 mph and a Gulf Stream crossing gone awry with waves half the height of my mast has made me a big believer of overkill in safety gear.

Regards,

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Good thing I diden't buy them...I just looked at my flare pistol....it a 25mm pistol... darn...those flares are $60 for three...guess I will pop for em... (I would be the guy that gets the ticket)

I diden't know about not being able to keep old flares in the safety kit though.... good thing I asked...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
HOLEY COW !!! I just went out to take those old flares out and move them and while I was at it I checked the dates... 3 sets....1988, 1992, 2005 expiration dates.... Sure glad I did it... Now I don't feel bad...about paying $60 for a set.... I had no idea they were that old...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Well, I got tired of buying flares every 3 years and 6 mos. I never found our how to get rid of them, and they were out of date every time I looked. So, I read the regulation and found out that you must have a daylight distress signal and you must have a night time visual signaling device. Nothing specifically said FLARES.

So for daytime, I bought a "Distress Signaling Flag", approved by the USCG, from Defender ($7.)

For nighttime I got a "ACR Distress SOS" handheld lamp. This light flashes SOS, and is approved by the Coast Guard to replace flares. It is on closeout at Defender for $20. ACR has discontinued making this thingy. Don't know if there's another that would fit the bill.

Anyway for less than $40 I now meet the CG distress requirements, without buying explosives every 3 years. Don't anybody bust my bubble.

Here is a distress signal reference: US Coast Guard Distress Signals

Boris
 
I keep up to date three 12 guage flares and 3 hand held day night on each boat, plus at least one 12 guage parachute flare on any boat I use offshore and one smoke cannister. When we were crossing oceans we had SOLAS 25 MM plus the self contained SOLAS flares.

We also keep at least two strobe lights, 2 hand held, (Plus the two fixed) VHF radios and two 406 mhz personal locator beacons aboard. If I needed rescue, I would put a lot more stock in the radios and locator beacons than flares. A strobe makes a good attention getter, but does not serve in place of the S O S beacon. Also a strobe is difficult to localize.
 
I do have one parachute flare, a flag and a mirror.....plus strobes and whistles on each float jacket....even some light sticks..

I just had never layed everything out and checked like I did today....

I think now that I see what others are using, I will buy a smoke hand held flare and several hand held daylight flares... maybe even set up some sort of safety ditch bag... so everything easy to grab... before, I just kept the stuff in a drawer ..... kinda glad I asked the question..

Joel
SEA3PO
 
We keep up to date hand held and rocket flares aboard and last year we added a rescue lazer to the list. We also have a 406 mhz gps epirb and each carry a handheld vhf.
 
Now that I'm looking through the regs. I can't find where I was told/learned that one is not to store expired flares in the same location as unexpired. This may have been during a visit from a local officer (I had a forced safety inspection this past year when I launched one day).
 
Joel,

I'm glad you asked this question and more glad that you are updating your distress signals. I hope others read this and check their supplies.

I'm a Coast Guard Auxiliary vessel safety examiner and the number one problem on boats examined is expired distress signals, second is life vests still in the package or stuck away where they cannot be accessed. Vessel safety checks are free, we do not issue tickets for failure to pass, we do not report boats in need of "things" to the coast guard or law enforcement. We simply issue a sticker showing you passed or do not issue that sticker if you need some items. I encourage every brat to have their vessel checked. David McKibben (Anna Leigh) and I (C-Cakes) are available to do checks at every CBGT and for those not in our area, contact your local CG Auxiliary and they will be happy to come and do a check.

And while we are talking safety, there is another important safety step we can all take: get a VHF with DSC (Digital Selective Calling) capability, get an MMSI number from boat US or the FCC, input that number to the radio. And, in the event you have an emergency, press and hold for 3-5 seconds, the emergency button on that radio. It will automatically transmit a Mayday message for you and will repeat that message until someone receives it and acknowledges your Mayday. Plus, if you have a DSC radio and someone else sends a DSC Mayday your radio will automatically receive that message and in some cases will display the latitude and longitude of the distressed vessel.

Boris, I agree that you have an approved day and night signal but I have to prick your bubble a little bit. In daylight putting the flag on your highest point, probably the VHF antenna is probably the best thing. In a mayday situation are you going to be comfortable leaving the helm and radio, climbing up to the radar arch, lowering the antenna, taping or clamping the flag to the antenna, raising the antenna back up, and hoping that someone will see it and then...the hard part...have a clue what that funny orange flag means? In the dark/fog the flashlight will indeed send a line of sight SOS signal, if the batteries have been maintained and the bulb is not broken. That's great if your potential rescuer is in the quadrant you are aiming the light towards and the light, probably at about six feet above the flat sea level is visible. And...to make that useful you have to do it continuously in a 360 degree swing, kind of hard to do that while at the helm, etc. etc. With all respect, meeting the technical minimum does not mean you have a really useful set of help signals that can potentially save your life or that of your loved ones.

Admittedly I am a little anal about caution and safety, (probably comes from having been a cop, an EMT, and a combat vet. :) :) ) but this is what I carry on C-Cakes: Cabin: 12GA flare gun with 6 flares, signal flag, three handheld flares, three handheld smoke signals, four lightsticks with 6ft string to twirl at night, Ditch bag:four lightsticks, flaregun with three flares, two handheld smoke signals, Life vests (mine and wife's): two handlaunch flares, lightstick.
 
I just went through my inventory, and have none that need replacing this year, but I am going to add some to have sort of a rolling stock. I have looked at some alternatives, including (from Landfall at Landfallnavigation.com ) a laser flare magnum, a skyalert kite, an emergency signal streamer and some other accessories) to be used as adjuncts. There is a very interesting site on the BoatUS web site about VDS ( Visual Distress Signal devices), comparison and observability. Quite an eye opener as to the practicality of a 12gauge signal flare. Somehow, 7 seconds doesn't seem very long when you see it go by and think of yourself sitting in an inflatable, in the dark, even on a calm sea.

Flares, expensive, only if (IMHO) you don't need them. Anything else is just icing on the cake. Getting a ride home after a serious mishap, priceless.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
For a few dollars more you can have parachute flares. A 12 ga flare gun has very limited burn time and, may make it difficult to locate the vessel in distress. We carry three parachute, three smoke and six handhelds. Unless you are going way off shore you don't need SOLAS (which are very very expensive). The flare package that I buy costs about $180 but, like said above it is very cheep insurance. The old expired flares can be used as practice flares. If you have never used a signal flare you should practice. Just call the CG and let them know you are doing a training and you will shoot a flare. The expired flares need to be in a seperate area(plastic bag) and clearly marked as practice flares.

Gene
 
I think one thing this topic had done (for me at least) is made me think more about what gear I have...and now, where I store it... what I now plan on doing is buying one of those red waterproof bags marking it SAFETY and putting the flares, gun,signals,flag in it and keeping it in the cockpit where it is accessible in an emergency.

I gotta agree...cheep insurance, even if I don't use it...I have it..

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Again - been there/done that. Back in the early 70's, before 2 way radios were practical/ affordable for small, open boats I had the lower unit go out on our boat - off Maalaea, Maui. Mid-day, right under the Aloha/Hawaiian Airline approach path to Maui.

I had a Very pistol with at least half a dozen red shells, and fired all but 2 of them trying to guess when the pilots would have the best chance of seeing them. I then resorted to a dozen or so red pencil flares, (the outdated ones worked just fine) all with no result. We were drifting toward Molokini. Had rigged sea anchor. Had saved the last Very flares for twilight and full dark. Late efternoon we spotted another boat coming sort of our way, and fired a Very flare angled his direction. Fortunately he realized something was wrong with all the waving and yelling coming from our boat, and he was able to tow us in. Don't know if he saw the flare or not.

The lesson here is that the visual aids requirement is minimal, and down and dirty you may wish you had 10x as much, as well as somebody to see them who is willing and able to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
 
Two areas where I encourage my customers, or readers of the forum I moderate, not to skimp is safety gear and communication gear.

I installed some electronics on a friends 48' Yacht, which had a very high end Icom VHF on it, costing upwards of $800 when new. Attached to it was a $29.95 Antenna.

If the budget is limited, step down one radio model and spend some money on a good antenna. That antenna is your life line in an emergency.

I have had Coast Guard Auxillary guys give me a vessel inspection, and we had discussion on flares. I was even at an event where flares were demonstrated, showing the effectiveness and operation of various models.

At one time I probably had nearly two dozen expred flares on one boat I owned, and added new when required.

BTW- Most CG Auxillary offices can take used flares for demonstartions as mentioned. Fire stations may take old flares as well.
 
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