Insurance and repowering over max horsepower

J

john8lyons

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Joined
Feb 17, 2022
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C Dory Year
2008
C Dory Model
255 Tomcat
Vessel Name
Learning Curve
The original 2008 ETECs on my Tomcat are showing their age despite my best efforts and I’d planned to repower this fall. The inline 4 Suzukis (200, 175 and 150) seem like a good match for the boat. I’d prefer to go with the 175 or 200 given that they are the same weight as the 150 and also have variable valve timing that doesn’t come on the 150. However, the manufacturer data tag for the 2008 Tomcat sets max horsepower at 300 and I’m having trouble finding an insurance company that will allow the new motors to exceed the recommended limit. Anyone know a regional (PNW/Alaska) or national company that will insure boats in cases like this?
 
What does the new Tomcat sticker say? On the 22’s I read of people here getting new official stickers from C-Dory with the higher limits presently used. Maybe you could do the same.
 
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply. I tried that route with C-Dory and got quick responses from Greg Little, to his credit. However, they wouldn't provide me a new tag for a boat they didn't manufacture. He said they took over the C-Dory name and molds in 2009, and my boat is a 2008. Greg said that Fluid Marine was making the earlier versions of the Tomcat. I have a request in with them about a new data tag, but since they were only making the 300HP version I'm not sure whether that will go anywhere.
 
Some times those original tags come off and get lost. Just saying you can have a new Data Tag made at any trophy engraving shop. The boats certified for 300 Hp were no different than ones tagged for 400 Hp. The Suzuki 150, 175 and 200 are all on the same block, and weight is almost identical.
 
john8lyons said:
The original 2008 ETECs on my Tomcat are showing their age despite my best efforts and I’d planned to repower this fall. The inline 4 Suzukis (200, 175 and 150) seem like a good match for the boat. I’d prefer to go with the 175 or 200 given that they are the same weight as the 150 and also have variable valve timing that doesn’t come on the 150. However, the manufacturer data tag for the 2008 Tomcat sets max horsepower at 300 and I’m having trouble finding an insurance company that will allow the new motors to exceed the recommended limit. Anyone know a regional (PNW/Alaska) or national company that will insure boats in cases like this?
Click to expand...
You get 2X 150HP Suzuki engines and flash with a 180/188Hp ECU tune for 360/376HP
 
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These flashed motors do not have the variable valve timing. With the stock 150's, I could get close to 50 mph on my Tom Cat 255. Cruising speed easily in the 35 knot range. Not sure where I would want anymore speed than that. One day, after a week at the Apalachola C Brat gathering, I raced my wife home--she was in her Lincoln Town Car, and I was in the C Dory Tom Cat 255. I won. I had only two very short "no wake zones" and could run in the lower to mid 40's. She had traffic all along the way, which kept her speed down. Distance traveled by both the boat and car was abut 200 miles.
 
Boats longer than 21 feet don't require the sticker. My 22 doesn't have one the factory left it off. At the time max hp was 100hp and the factory installed a 115hp on my boat. It now has a DF 140 on it and the factory said it was ok to do it.
 
Thanks, All. I’m guessing that flashing new motors would void the warranty? As for 150s vs 175s, I’m not interested in a higher top speed but rather a bit better midrange power and thus efficiency (or so the dealer claims about the VVT 175). Whether a slight increase in range is worth the extra cost and insurance acrobatics of hanging 175s over 150s is probably questionable at this point.
 
john8lyons said:
Thanks, All. I’m guessing that flashing new motors would void the warranty? As for 150s vs 175s, I’m not interested in a higher top speed but rather a bit better midrange power and thus efficiency (or so the dealer claims about the VVT 175). Whether a slight increase in range is worth the extra cost and insurance acrobatics of hanging 175s over 150s is probably questionable at this point.
Click to expand...
Four blade props (or the new sci fri looking ones) might get you there
 
john8lyons said:
Thanks, All. I’m guessing that flashing new motors would void the warranty? As for 150s vs 175s, I’m not interested in a higher top speed but rather a bit better midrange power and thus efficiency (or so the dealer claims about the VVT 175). Whether a slight increase in range is worth the extra cost and insurance acrobatics of hanging 175s over 150s is probably questionable at this point.
Click to expand...
DaveinRI:

"Four blade props (or the new sci fri looking ones) might get you there"

Yes flashing would void the warantee. However one of the guys who does the flashing, can easily restore to stock (more $$$$). The ECU memory will record the flashings, so this can easily be discovered.

I ran 4 blades x 19 pitch on my Tom Cat 255, even had some 21" pitch 4 blade for higher speed or better mid range when the boat was very light.
I run a 4 blade (which gives stern lift) on the Caracal Cat.

The SHARROW™ prop is very expensive: $4,999 for one--x2 for Tom Cat= $11,000 by the time tax and shipping is added in! You would have to get a lot more "mileage" for that amount! There are specific props which are best for the Tom Cat; the PowerTech OFS4 is my choice for both the Tom Cat and the Caracal Cat--gives stern lift, and good effeciency, less than $1,000. On the other hand, a spare aluminum prop will generally be found for less than $100.
 
DaveinRI and Bob:

Greg Little from NMI boats said that the current Tomcats with 175s are being shipped with 4 blade 20 pitch props. When I asked about Tomcats with 150s he said: "We would send a TC with 150’s with 19 pitch 3 blade props. We had a customer that try several different props on his TC and the 4 blade prop gave him the best performance overall. Better fuel & out of the hole."

Not sure if that was a typo on the '"3 blade props" given the rest of the statement about the Tomcats with 150s, but it seems to align with Bob's 4x19 advice. And maybe Greg is citing Bob's work.
 
So far the documented evidence that Sharrow props are the huge advantage that they say they are is pretty thin. There can be some improvement in mpg but it isn’t as great as they claim in their ads. You’d need to run your boat A LOT to get an ROI. FWIW, toroidal props are nothing new. If there was some advantage to using them, they would be commonly employed.
 
Upon closer look, the Suzuki watergrip 4 blade is only offered in 18 and 20-26 pitch, which may explain the 3x19 pitch in Greg's email.
 
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