tom&shan
New member
Larry H":3ucyc30g said:
So here in Seattle if we take a boat trip into Canadian waters, i.e. head over to Victoria, then I will need to get a FCC license?
Tom
MMSI
- Thread starter sailor-d
- Start date
So here in Seattle if we take a boat trip into Canadian waters, i.e. head over to Victoria, then I will need to get a FCC license?
Tom
Only if you intend to communicate via VHF to someone else actually in Canadian waters or to a Canadian shore station/marina.
The whole license(s) process, via the FCC, is about $200. Truly the only real need is if you do intend to operate in Canadian waters or, like us San Diego folk, dip down into Mexican waters. Even then, I would fear the Canadian/Mexican authorities way more than the US/FCC, and that ain't saying much down south.
Don
I'm planning to launch out of PR, then a half day to get into AK waters for 2 weeks, then back into Canadian waters to my trailer. I'll have to check into customs at PR, probably by VHF. So now I need a $200 FCC license and a $150 Restricted Radio Station VHF license as well -- or are these really one and the same license for recreational boaters? Thanks.
Here is a link to a coast Guard pdf file which clearly lays out the rules
www.uscg.mil/d1/staff/oan/navinfo/docum ... ations.PDF - 2004-10-26
If it doesn't show as a link then do a "cut and paste"
(I see on review that the link is not complete, you need all of it)
Merv
www.uscg.mil/d1/staff/oan/navinfo/docum ... ations.PDF - 2004-10-26
If it doesn't show as a link then do a "cut and paste"
(I see on review that the link is not complete, you need all of it)
Merv
Steve,
The last time I was in Prince Rupert, you could NOT check into Canada Customs by radio.
The procedure was to call by phone from the dock upon arrival.
No one in Canada has ever asked to see my radio license.
It's not Canada who requires a VHF license, it's the US FCC.
Larry H
The last time I was in Prince Rupert, you could NOT check into Canada Customs by radio.
The procedure was to call by phone from the dock upon arrival.
No one in Canada has ever asked to see my radio license.
It's not Canada who requires a VHF license, it's the US FCC.
Larry H
Hi Larry
sorry, but you are wrong, Canada does requires a VHF license ! :shock:
http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html
http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#fcc
http://www.boaterexam.com/canada/
Regards Chris
sorry, but you are wrong, Canada does requires a VHF license ! :shock:
http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html
http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#fcc
http://www.boaterexam.com/canada/
Regards Chris
Chris,
Thanks for the update.
In this everchanging world of government regulations it's hard to keep up!
Summary of what I think I know:
Canadian boats operating Canada:
No station license required for VHF.
A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate (Canadian) IS required. (For Canadians)
US boats operating in US waters:
No station license required.
No operators license required.
US or Canadian boats operating in the other country:
A station license from the country of registration IS required.
A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit (For US citizens) IS required, or a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate (for Canadians) IS required.
For boats from either country, the licenses are issued by the country where the boat is registered.
Note that there are two licenses: One is the Station License which applies to the boat, and one is the Operator's license which applies to the person operating the radio.
In Canada, to get the operators license a test is required.
In the US, the operators permit is issued without a test, and is valid for life.
If you get a US radio station license from the FCC, a MMSI number will be issued with the license.
If you don't need or get an FCC radio station license, you can get a free MMSI number from BOAT US.
This is what I think I know, your results may vary!! :crook
Larry H
Thanks for the update.
In this everchanging world of government regulations it's hard to keep up!
Summary of what I think I know:
Canadian boats operating Canada:
No station license required for VHF.
A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate (Canadian) IS required. (For Canadians)
US boats operating in US waters:
No station license required.
No operators license required.
US or Canadian boats operating in the other country:
A station license from the country of registration IS required.
A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit (For US citizens) IS required, or a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate (for Canadians) IS required.
For boats from either country, the licenses are issued by the country where the boat is registered.
Note that there are two licenses: One is the Station License which applies to the boat, and one is the Operator's license which applies to the person operating the radio.
In Canada, to get the operators license a test is required.
In the US, the operators permit is issued without a test, and is valid for life.
If you get a US radio station license from the FCC, a MMSI number will be issued with the license.
If you don't need or get an FCC radio station license, you can get a free MMSI number from BOAT US.
This is what I think I know, your results may vary!! :crook
Larry H
I haven't seen this link on the posts about MMSI...so I'll throw it out there :
http://www.uscg.mil/rescue21.
This link explains the "RESCUE21" program...probably most importantly, it describes the implementation timeline for MMSI distress signaling (the Coast Guiard has not ye implemented the program in many boating areas!!).
MMSI/DSC is still a great way to find out who of your buddies is out on the water and where they are.....but, as is constantly stressed - you have to register your MMSI number and keep your information current.
Since MMSI RESCUE21 is still 3-4 years away in non-ocean areas, an EPIRB is still the way to go right now!
therevdr
http://www.uscg.mil/rescue21.
This link explains the "RESCUE21" program...probably most importantly, it describes the implementation timeline for MMSI distress signaling (the Coast Guiard has not ye implemented the program in many boating areas!!).
MMSI/DSC is still a great way to find out who of your buddies is out on the water and where they are.....but, as is constantly stressed - you have to register your MMSI number and keep your information current.
Since MMSI RESCUE21 is still 3-4 years away in non-ocean areas, an EPIRB is still the way to go right now!
therevdr
Alyssa Jean
New member
And an amateur radio license is free if I remember right and good for ten years. Now you can get either the Technician Class or the General Class without any code requirement.
Just to clarify there is no Morse code requirement for any ham license (even the extra--which used to require 22 words a min.)
From the Waggoner Cruising guide:
" Unfortunately, the U.S. regulation requiring licensing for U.S. pleasure craft in foreign waters is still on the books. It's supposed to be revoked, at least for travel in Canada. But it hasn't been revoked - yet.
What about enforcement? The reality is that the U.S. Coast Guard does not check VHF radio licensing for U.S. pleasure craft, because in U.S. waters no licensing is required. Neither does the U.S. Coast Guard go into Canadian waters to enforce U.S. VHF radio licensing regulations. In Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard and RCMP have no interest in enforcing U.S. regulations.
So nobody is looking at, nor are they about to look at, this obscure regulation requiring U.S. boats and their people to be licensed if they cruise in Canada. Given these circumstances, what should the U.S. boater do? We'll leave the decision up to each individual."
There is also a treaty allowing US vessels to use the VHF in Canadian Waters of the Great Lakes and visa versa.
In our larger boats we had SSB and were regularly into foreign waters, so we had an FCC license and ships call sign. We were never asked to show any license of any type, except the ships documentation papers in the Americas--different for Europe, where it was required on several occasions.
We are not planning a FCC license for the Tom Cat.
From the Waggoner Cruising guide:
" Unfortunately, the U.S. regulation requiring licensing for U.S. pleasure craft in foreign waters is still on the books. It's supposed to be revoked, at least for travel in Canada. But it hasn't been revoked - yet.
What about enforcement? The reality is that the U.S. Coast Guard does not check VHF radio licensing for U.S. pleasure craft, because in U.S. waters no licensing is required. Neither does the U.S. Coast Guard go into Canadian waters to enforce U.S. VHF radio licensing regulations. In Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard and RCMP have no interest in enforcing U.S. regulations.
So nobody is looking at, nor are they about to look at, this obscure regulation requiring U.S. boats and their people to be licensed if they cruise in Canada. Given these circumstances, what should the U.S. boater do? We'll leave the decision up to each individual."
There is also a treaty allowing US vessels to use the VHF in Canadian Waters of the Great Lakes and visa versa.
In our larger boats we had SSB and were regularly into foreign waters, so we had an FCC license and ships call sign. We were never asked to show any license of any type, except the ships documentation papers in the Americas--different for Europe, where it was required on several occasions.
We are not planning a FCC license for the Tom Cat.
tom&shan
New member
thataway":212hrg09 said:
I checked out the FCC web sites and the fees are now 60 (Restricted User) and 160 (Ship License), so it would be 220 to be in compliance.
Seems like a waste of money if its ignored.
Tom
Even though the FCC says:
"WHAT IS DOMESTIC OPERATION?
Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III. "
The US CG web site says:
"I live in the Detroit area. Does domestic use include Canada? If I land in Canada and use my VHF radio, do I need a license?
Technically, yes. Although the FCC no longer requires boaters having a VHF radio for domestic use to carry a ship station license, ship station radio license for my boat since the FCC eliminated its licensing requirements. U.S. boaters are supposed to obtain a license from the FCC before coming to Canada. We understand Canada, like the US, do not require boaters with VHF radios carry ship station licenses. (Note: Canadian rules regarding radio licenses on boats could change at any time. We recommend you check with Canadian authorities.)"
And from "Boat Maine"
"If you may enter foreign waters, including Canada, there is a compelling reason to get a FCC License. This is because when you apply for an FCC license you can get a MMSI number from the FCC at no additional cost. MMSI numbers issued by the FCC differ from those issued by BoatUS in that FCC assigned MMSI data is shared with search and rescue (SAR) agencies in foreign countries. This is important because if you push the distress button on the radio in foreign waters, the SAR station will take the number they receive and attempt to look it up in their MMSI database. If the number is from the FCC, they will have the information they need about your boat. If however the number is from BoatUS, they may be unable to find any data on your vessel. Needless to say, in an emergency you do not want to do anything to impede a speedy rescue."
+
"WHAT IS DOMESTIC OPERATION?
Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III. "
The US CG web site says:
"I live in the Detroit area. Does domestic use include Canada? If I land in Canada and use my VHF radio, do I need a license?
Technically, yes. Although the FCC no longer requires boaters having a VHF radio for domestic use to carry a ship station license, ship station radio license for my boat since the FCC eliminated its licensing requirements. U.S. boaters are supposed to obtain a license from the FCC before coming to Canada. We understand Canada, like the US, do not require boaters with VHF radios carry ship station licenses. (Note: Canadian rules regarding radio licenses on boats could change at any time. We recommend you check with Canadian authorities.)"
And from "Boat Maine"
"If you may enter foreign waters, including Canada, there is a compelling reason to get a FCC License. This is because when you apply for an FCC license you can get a MMSI number from the FCC at no additional cost. MMSI numbers issued by the FCC differ from those issued by BoatUS in that FCC assigned MMSI data is shared with search and rescue (SAR) agencies in foreign countries. This is important because if you push the distress button on the radio in foreign waters, the SAR station will take the number they receive and attempt to look it up in their MMSI database. If the number is from the FCC, they will have the information they need about your boat. If however the number is from BoatUS, they may be unable to find any data on your vessel. Needless to say, in an emergency you do not want to do anything to impede a speedy rescue."
+
Larry,
Agree with your breakdown, ecellent. Just one point, the FFC form 605 that you have to fill out for the station licence specifically asks IF you already have an MMSI number. If you do not then they will assign one to you.
What it does not say is IF they will register your existing MMSI number with the international database.
Oh yes and before you can do any of it on line you have to fill out yet another form to get an FCC registration Number FRN without which they cannot do business with you !!! Apparently you can do that on line but you have to have the number before you fill out the FCC #605.
Then you can file the 605 on line but you also need to submit a FCC 605 Schedule B (which is where they ask if you have an MMSI number)
I have yet to find out which form you need for the station operator...
Strongly advise to print all the BS out first and read it, fill out the forms on paper before attacking it on-line.
I am thinking of taking a smoky BBQ and a blanket instead, but I bet there is a form for that too
Merv
Agree with your breakdown, ecellent. Just one point, the FFC form 605 that you have to fill out for the station licence specifically asks IF you already have an MMSI number. If you do not then they will assign one to you.
What it does not say is IF they will register your existing MMSI number with the international database.
Oh yes and before you can do any of it on line you have to fill out yet another form to get an FCC registration Number FRN without which they cannot do business with you !!! Apparently you can do that on line but you have to have the number before you fill out the FCC #605.
Then you can file the 605 on line but you also need to submit a FCC 605 Schedule B (which is where they ask if you have an MMSI number)
I have yet to find out which form you need for the station operator...
Strongly advise to print all the BS out first and read it, fill out the forms on paper before attacking it on-line.
I am thinking of taking a smoky BBQ and a blanket instead, but I bet there is a form for that too
Merv
Anita Marie
New member
I believe you also need the station license if you transmit your radar in Canada. My wife and I talked to a guy who had just gone thru custom in Anacortes, Wa. He was fined $600 for not having a station license when transmitting his radar in Canada. Not sure how they knew but I saw his ticket.
From the official "Industry Canada"-- Spectrum Management and Telecommunications Web site:
"If I have radar on board my ship, will I require a licence?
Most radar operate on frequencies contained within the maritime mobile band and therefore are exempt from licensing. However, you can verify if your radar operates within this band by referring to RIC-13."
"If I have radar on board my ship, will I require a licence?
Most radar operate on frequencies contained within the maritime mobile band and therefore are exempt from licensing. However, you can verify if your radar operates within this band by referring to RIC-13."
Grumpy,
Yes you need to get an FRN. That is your 'log in' number with the FCC and once you have it, you can do business with them online.
Here is a quote from the FCC website about NOT filling in your BOAT US issued MMSI number in form 605.
The following quote is from:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
"If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605 with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and the FCC will issue you a new MMSI."
I think anybody who wants to understand this FCC/MMSI stuff should check out that page. It has many of the questions and answers that are being asked here.
Don't we just LOVE doing business with the govm'nt!! :wink
Larry H
Yes you need to get an FRN. That is your 'log in' number with the FCC and once you have it, you can do business with them online.
Here is a quote from the FCC website about NOT filling in your BOAT US issued MMSI number in form 605.
The following quote is from:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
"If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605 with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and the FCC will issue you a new MMSI."
I think anybody who wants to understand this FCC/MMSI stuff should check out that page. It has many of the questions and answers that are being asked here.
Don't we just LOVE doing business with the govm'nt!! :wink
Larry H