Portland Cruise vessel, vs RedBull Event crowd.

T

thataway

Active member
There are 3 videos embedded in this link.

Warning profane language.

Incident occurred August 1, 2017

The captain of the cruise vessel had his license suspended. Red Bull organizers were given a warning.

Is it proper for a group of pleasure boaters (Many likely drinking heavily) to block a navigable waterway? Should have the cruise been canceled--and the organizers made to pay for lost revenue? Why was the coast guard not be more proactive in clearing a path? Should have a safety zone been established to allow safe transit of commercial traffic?
 
Wow. Wonder what the USCG's role in this was, since one of the videos it appears they were initially escorting the cruise boat. Regarding the cruise boat, it does redefine "barging thru". :-) I think the city and organizers failed here as well in not protecting a navigable water way. None the less, it probably was not prudent for the cruise boat to continue as he did. But the USCG should have shut the event down or "moved" a lot of boats prior to the cruise boat's arrival. Colby
 
While I do not condone the pleasure boaters' actions in any way, I think the aftermath was handled properly. No way should that cruise vessel have even reached the crowd knowing full well beforehand it was already there. If the cruise operators suffered financial hardship they could have sought remedy from the event sponsors in the courts like the system provides.

This event was a couple years ago. It would be interesting to see what follow up actions were taken and what appeals, if any, were heard.
 
The videos are worth viewing as an illustration of a situation that should never been allowed to develop.

The Buoy 10 sports fishery down here at the mouth of the Columbia has a much greater potential for damage to life and limb as well as vessels, largely because the prime mooching waters are adjacent to a major shipping waterway regularly transited by freighters and other encumbered vessels. Currently, USCG vessels patrol the boundaries of the channel, with a USCG vessel operating just ahead of the freighter (etc.) as it moves through the fleet, to "encourage" boats to move aside.

Without the heavy patrol presence, there would be problems, as was the case in years past.

Given that example, I would lay the blame mainly on the USCG. They clearly did not have have the situation in hand.

As for the drunken rowdies, they should not have been there. The event organizers had no license to occupy the channel. I bet Red Bull takes it in the shorts if the Spirit looks for damages.

The skipper? An idiot to attempt to push through that mess.

An all around clustermess.
 
Don't know if this is the case or not, but what if the event organizers had got the event permitted which allowed them to close the river down. Maybe the Spirit wasn't supposed to go there in the first place.

On the other hand, I'll bet that one of the draws of that particular run (whether advertised or not) was that the cruise was going to go by that event. Perhaps the Spirit captain was under pressure to maintain the route. It is not clear if the incident shown was on the normal cruise route or whether it was unique because of the event. In various places I have been, the Spirit line tends to lay on special or extra cruises when there is an event that can be viewed from the water.

Where I boat, for some events they do close off navigable waterways for particular events. Sometimes major waterways get closed for a number of hours. There are notices published and the CG makes period announcements via VHF about the closure.

In other cases, the authorities mark off a channel for transit boats and patrol it to keep it clear. If you want to loiter in your boat for the event you have to do it in the designated areas.

In the video of the Red Bull thing it looks like the most visible CG boat is just there to watch the event. It doesn't look to me like he is escorting the Spirit, just getting out of the way.
 
IF the Red Bull organizers of this event permitted, without specific instruction to
not do so, a mass of ETOH indulging pleasure boaters to block and stand in the
way of a commercial vessel's known route to and from its known legitimate
destination, the organizers should be fined, jailed and held accountable for any
personal injuries and/or property damage incurred by the commercial vessel.

I am not an attorney. I just play one in certain situations. This is one of them.
And I'd get my fee. Believe me.

Aye.
 
Foggy":ro56z952 said:
IF the Red Bull organizers of this event permitted, without specific instruction to
not do so, a mass of ETOH indulging pleasure boaters to block and stand in the
way of a commercial vessel's known route to and from its known legitimate
destination, the organizers should be fined, jailed and held accountable for any
personal injuries and/or property damage incurred by the commercial vessel.

I am not an attorney. I just play one in certain situations. This is one of them.
And I'd get my fee. Believe me.

Aye.
Click to expand...

But it also the responsibility of any boat captain (or any vehicle operator) not to deliberately do things that are obviously negligent. Just because it is your normal route or because you are the biggest fish does not give you the right to proceed in driving your ship through a dense crowd of other boats, unless there is some sort of emergency (and then you'd better be prepared to justify it). I would also have expected that if the Spirit planned on proceeding there would have been some sort of signal required, which is not apparent in the video.

So far I have not seen any information on the content of whatever permits the organizers obtained (if any). They periodically have one of these events around where I live. It is a big deal. I don't see how they could organize such an event without having to get permits, including for what happens in the water.
 
ssobol":2mq354ff said:
SNIP

But it also the responsibility of any boat captain (or any vehicle operator) not to deliberately do things that are obviously negligent. SNIP
Click to expand...

Then, the operators of the recreational boats ("Captains") in this instance were
'obviously negligent' since they maintained their position when collision was
immanent despite the dictum of "regardless of the rules, take any action to avoid collision"?

Aye.
 
Here is my take:
1. This should NEVER have been permitted.
2. Obviously it was not well organized
3. LE/CG should have kept the area clear. Perhaps not enough on duty.
4. On a bigger picture, this appears to be the "new Amerika". It's all one big huge party. Why work? Why obey laws? Why obey rules? "F" everyone but me. I'm a millennial and only my feelings matter.
4. Where do these youngsters get the money to afford $75K wake board boats? Hmmmmm....
5. Ridiculous. Arrests should have been made, by the hundreds I'd imagine, and boats should have been impounded.
 
Foggy":178npaea said:
ssobol":178npaea said:
SNIP

But it also the responsibility of any boat captain (or any vehicle operator) not to deliberately do things that are obviously negligent. SNIP
Click to expand...

Then, the operators of the recreational boats ("Captains") in this instance were
'obviously negligent' since they maintained their position when collision was
immanent despite the dictum of "regardless of the rules, take any action to avoid collision"?

Aye.
Click to expand...

Please see my posting above. Rules, laws, respect etc are for everyone ELSE. The new Amerika. Brought to you by the....Party. HINT; It stars with a "D".
 
Local Boy you hit a nerve here and I'm going to call you out on it. The Democrats are no more responsible for BS than the Republicans are! Until our country learns how to get along responsibly and respectfully, it will continue on the path of destruction! And it's not just the millenials that show no respect. I've seen some old farts that should know better as well. (And who is raising those millenials anyway?) IOW, lets knock off the political name calling or blaming and understand there are aholes or enough blame to go around in both parties. Ok, back to C-Brats, one rule, just be nice! Colby -Independent and proud of it!
 
Aside from political convictions, I will tell you that area is a mess anytime there is an event downtown. We tried to head down there for the Jazz fest, the amount of wake due to idiots speeding past groups of boats tied together is insane. Too many drunk and stupid people. At the rate the Portland spirit was moving these people could have moved as well in time. You cannot tell me sober, intelligent people would not have seen the cruise ship coming by.

I'd like to see the coast guard and police start to crack down on these drunken parties on the river and start breath testing these people.. They don't have common courtesy, can't respect no wake zones and frankly should not be on the river.

The other day I saw a dad flying at 40+ miles an hour with a open bow boat with his little 3-4 year old kids without life vests up front bouncing in the air from him purposefully hitting waves. I don't understand why the river patrols are not more aggressive. Boating is a privilege like driving NOT a right.

As to ageism, its always the old fisherman who is irate at the dock. I have never seen a millennial scream at people for taking a minute longer to load or unload their boat.

my 2 cents
 
As to the river, Bob the area they hang out at is in front of a grassy field & cove where events are held all summer long. The Portland Spirit just happens to be parked along the broadwalk a little ways down from this field / area. Most if not all other commercial ships do not come near this area / side of the river unless its fleet week.
 
Thanks to all about additional information. The event was the Red Bull Flugtag, where some types of "flying machines" are launched off a ramp into the water. There needed to be an event permit from the City, and State as well as the USCG.

The State permit specifically asks if there is any obstruction to normal flow of marine traffic, and how many patrol boats will be used, plus a diagram of where the event and patrol vessels will be located.

They had received a USCG permit, with the following stipulations:

"Special services to be rendered by the Coast Guard are listed. You are reminded that your organization is primarily responsible for safety in the regatta area and that this permit does not relieve you of such responsibility. Participants shall be adequately briefed and their boats equipped as required by law. A permit may also be required by a state, county or municipal agency.

This authorization grants no exemption from state or local ordinances. In the event of any change in the information furnished in your application you will notify this office.

There will not be a Special Local Regulation issued. No restriction is placed on the use of any navigable waters by other parties. Your event shall not obstruct any channel or normal shipping lane, or interfere with any aid to navigation. The Committee man in Charge shall control participants to prevent conditions hazardous to other craft in the area."
Click to expand...
The permit application had anticipated estimated 100 boats: over 500 attended. This is an area where normally no anchoring is allowed. The permits are designed for organizations which normally are on the water, and I suspect that "Red Bull" organizers have little if any experience with this aspect of the event.

I have obtained these permits for sailing and power races, as well as marine parades. The permits assume that the persons requesting the permits, will have boats on the water to patrol and keep clear navigational channels. The permittee can request additional coast guard resources and Coast Guard Auxiliary sources be present. The procedure to obtain the permit is well outlined in a Coast Guard manual. The review of the permit is a six stage process, where the CG and applicants may meet and review all safety precautions and impact on navigational waters. Although certain parts of waterways will be shut down--if there is to be a major impact, a Local Notice to Mariners will be issued, which apparently was not done here, according to the permit.

In this case the event was terminated by order of the Coast Guard almost 2 hours before it was scheduled to end--but it still took law enforcement 2 hours to clear the area. I doubt that the Coast Guard, Marine patrols etc had sufficient resources to do any real law enforcement. Also there was a mob mentality shown by the "boaters". Some reported that the Cruise ship and Coast Guard had used loud hailers to try and clear a path. Even though there was not a CG patrol assigned specifically to clear a safe path for the Portland Spirit, I believe that CG should have requested resources to do so, when they realized the magnitude of the crowd. Lots of "blame" to go around.
 
Portland is also known as "RIP City". Wonder why?

Ever hear "We have seen the enemy* and it is us"?

*My modern day take is the enemy is made up of the
ignorant, self-absorbed, mentally asleep who are
oblivious to the destructive workings of ego in
themselves and on others.

I'm an old dude but know a thing or 2 as I've seen
a thing or 2.

Aye.
 
RIP city is a reference to the NBA team the blazers. Aside from that Portland is a wonderful place to live. I'm not from here but there is no where in the states I'd rather live at this point in time. i disagree with the sentiment that everything is going to hell. I think we're as a nation in transition between vastly different generations with very different priorities and I don't think it's a bad thing. The world is changing at an every faster pace, there is no stopping that. you can't turn back the clock and I for one do not believe everything was better 20-30-40 years ago. Our kids will have to clean up the mess our generations left behind. Debt/environment etc etc and at the same time compete with an ever more global world. Things will be different and yes sometimes I long for the simpler times but also am excited to see what my kids and their peers do with it. I for one have hope.

Cheers,
Harald
 
The attitude you saw on the water, I believe that you could see many places. I certainly have experienced this at Lake Powell. My son goes out to Lake Havasu with friends, and it is rampant there. Sand bars in Florida have the same issues.
I don't believe it has anything to do with Oregon. Most likely It is ignorance on the part of the organizers, and of the boaters who felt that had the "right" to obstruct a navigable channel. Maybe it is generational--but my first response would be to have moved my boat, and encouraged others near me to do that.

We have massive numbers of boats on "Blue Angel" beach shows -- several thousand boats instead of several hundred--and we don't have problems keeping a navigable channel in Pensacola.. We do have Marine patrol, Coast Guard, CG AuX, Navy and Sheriff's boats on patrol. LEO ticket for open containers, and safety violations. No exceptions made for there being an event. People know that there is a chance they will be ticketed and thus they seem to be more careful. There may be a different demography of people going to Red Bull events, than at Blue Angel shows. But we had the same discipline during Formula one power races and the offshore power boats.
 
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