We haven't regretted our purchase for a second. This seaworthy little piece of heaven is blissful serenity on the water. Our boat is fawned over and admired by just about everyone. We're at the age (and wisdom) where speed is the LAST of our considerations. Safety, security and economy. We burn less fuel in a day than most boats burn in an hour and we get to enjoy every bit of the scenery. If you want to go fast, buy a Cigarette. I'll look for you in the classifieds. :wink
Ranger Tug 21ec - My Observation!
- Thread starter IdleUp
- Start date
Shaun and others,
Thank you for the details about the big water, we have yet dared to venture into the atlantic .
Next year we are thinking about taking the tug to a friends house in belmar N J by water and hearing from the folks who head off shore in the tugs is helping to shed the fear of getting caught out , if the weather turns bad.
I have taken the tug to block island ,RI and been in some rough chop going through long island sound.
We stayed nice and dry in the cabin as the white caps sprayed the pilot house for hours on one return trip.
Denny , I know what you mean about people liking the tug , and showing interest in it. We like the look of tugger and red is our favorite color, are tug is blue we purchased it as a demo and saved a few dollars but had no choice in the color but we still like it.
Funny how you mentioned cigarette, because one of the other boats we proudly own is a 05 -42 ft, fountain . Lets not compare apples to oranges here. I can say... the ranger gets more attention where ever we go.
BTW - I had made a mistake in a previous post ...I meant we have put 360 hours on the motor (i checked yesterday) not miles.
Have not had any problems in that time as we have read about here and the water pump thread had me thinking a new impeller would would be a good thing to have aboard as a spare. Mine still looks good as new so far.
We enjoyed the photo albums and as soon as I can figure out how to post pictures we will .
This is a great site and we are glad we heard about it...... later gang
Thank you for the details about the big water, we have yet dared to venture into the atlantic .
Next year we are thinking about taking the tug to a friends house in belmar N J by water and hearing from the folks who head off shore in the tugs is helping to shed the fear of getting caught out , if the weather turns bad.
I have taken the tug to block island ,RI and been in some rough chop going through long island sound.
We stayed nice and dry in the cabin as the white caps sprayed the pilot house for hours on one return trip.
Denny , I know what you mean about people liking the tug , and showing interest in it. We like the look of tugger and red is our favorite color, are tug is blue we purchased it as a demo and saved a few dollars but had no choice in the color but we still like it.
Funny how you mentioned cigarette, because one of the other boats we proudly own is a 05 -42 ft, fountain . Lets not compare apples to oranges here. I can say... the ranger gets more attention where ever we go.
BTW - I had made a mistake in a previous post ...I meant we have put 360 hours on the motor (i checked yesterday) not miles.
Have not had any problems in that time as we have read about here and the water pump thread had me thinking a new impeller would would be a good thing to have aboard as a spare. Mine still looks good as new so far.
We enjoyed the photo albums and as soon as I can figure out how to post pictures we will .
This is a great site and we are glad we heard about it...... later gang
Westfield 11
New member
drjohn71a":28ct2gpv said:
Folks, I beg to differ on this point. Your statement is correct when speaking of the old fashioned diesels of the past. However the new computer controlled common rail diesels do not have those issues. Check out the posts over at Boatdiesel.com and you will find that one can run the new engines at idle forever with no adverse problems, something that has been proven in commercial usage.
Agreed and proven Westfield11,
ITSY , tried to make that argument before with facts to back it up. I miss his posts , most were real world and not book theory.
I am glad we found this site however good it may be and the just be nice motto , it seems the majority of posters have thier prejudiced opinions against any thing negative about thier boats even if it is true what is being said.
Aside from a few with a nasty little click here , all in all a great site
ITSY , tried to make that argument before with facts to back it up. I miss his posts , most were real world and not book theory.
I am glad we found this site however good it may be and the just be nice motto , it seems the majority of posters have thier prejudiced opinions against any thing negative about thier boats even if it is true what is being said.
Aside from a few with a nasty little click here , all in all a great site
Hi Frob and welcome aboard,
This place is one of the friendliest on the internet. One of the best things about this forum is the information and support you'll get. We enjoy these boats and have no problem pointing out their strengths and weaknesses.
It seems to me that Itsy and IdleUp both came here with the intent of pointing out why the R-21 didn't work for them. There are those that love 'em and those that don't, but if one does even a little bit of homework, they will know what these boats are capable of... and all the whining and griping isn't going to change the hull shape, cabin space, or performance.
If you noticed "the majority of posters" here being "negative", it wasn't because of someone pointing out something true about the boat... it was in response to the way these two guys came across.
I hope you'll take the time to look through the wealth of archives here and see that we discuss ALL aspects of our boats, good and bad. We've given the factory kudos and jeers when warranted. We come from all different places and boat usage, but the thing we share is the passion for these boats. The Rangers were welcomed here when C-Dory and Ranger worked together marketing the R-25 (no longer happening), and I think a lot of us C-Dory folks still enjoy the tug posts. What you might consider a clique is a bunch of good folks who have been around long enough and know and share what they've learned. When we started looking around for our boat, this place could not have been more welcoming. You can participate as much or as little as you want; I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of the participants here in person. What a great bunch of people!
"Click"? No, everyone here gets to sit with the cool kids as long as they play by the one and only rule. :wink:
Best wishes,
Jim B.
This place is one of the friendliest on the internet. One of the best things about this forum is the information and support you'll get. We enjoy these boats and have no problem pointing out their strengths and weaknesses.
It seems to me that Itsy and IdleUp both came here with the intent of pointing out why the R-21 didn't work for them. There are those that love 'em and those that don't, but if one does even a little bit of homework, they will know what these boats are capable of... and all the whining and griping isn't going to change the hull shape, cabin space, or performance.
If you noticed "the majority of posters" here being "negative", it wasn't because of someone pointing out something true about the boat... it was in response to the way these two guys came across.
I hope you'll take the time to look through the wealth of archives here and see that we discuss ALL aspects of our boats, good and bad. We've given the factory kudos and jeers when warranted. We come from all different places and boat usage, but the thing we share is the passion for these boats. The Rangers were welcomed here when C-Dory and Ranger worked together marketing the R-25 (no longer happening), and I think a lot of us C-Dory folks still enjoy the tug posts. What you might consider a clique is a bunch of good folks who have been around long enough and know and share what they've learned. When we started looking around for our boat, this place could not have been more welcoming. You can participate as much or as little as you want; I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of the participants here in person. What a great bunch of people!
"Click"? No, everyone here gets to sit with the cool kids as long as they play by the one and only rule. :wink:
Best wishes,
Jim B.
I certainly would second what Jim said. Frankly the vast majority of us don't have a dog in the speed of the Tug issue. (We own C dories, although many of us have been aboard the tugs and enjoy them). We just point out what the facts based on our knowledge and theory are. Many of the posters here have far more real world knowledge than you might suspect. There are boat builders, boat dealers, full time watermen, surveyors, professional boat skippers etc; people with thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of miles on the water--all come in with an unbiased view hoping to help others enjoy the boating experience.
There are several C Brat gatherings coming up in the next few weeks. One is the Gulf Coast Gathering. We have had boaters from New York come down--it is still warm on the Gulf Coast in mid October. Apalachicola is a wonderful little town with some of the world's best Oysters--and a very friendly group of C Brats! October 17th thru 19th is the date. The North Carolina gathering is next weekend--not too late for that. If you cannot bring your boat, there are other accomidations available. It is a fantistic group of people--and I have not observed any clic either--I have had the pleasure of meeting an additional about 50 or so additional members this last summer, in the Delta Extravaganzia and the Anacortes Cruise, as well in various parts of British Columbia.
Come on down and enjoy some southern hospitality and meet some of the group.
There are several C Brat gatherings coming up in the next few weeks. One is the Gulf Coast Gathering. We have had boaters from New York come down--it is still warm on the Gulf Coast in mid October. Apalachicola is a wonderful little town with some of the world's best Oysters--and a very friendly group of C Brats! October 17th thru 19th is the date. The North Carolina gathering is next weekend--not too late for that. If you cannot bring your boat, there are other accomidations available. It is a fantistic group of people--and I have not observed any clic either--I have had the pleasure of meeting an additional about 50 or so additional members this last summer, in the Delta Extravaganzia and the Anacortes Cruise, as well in various parts of British Columbia.
Come on down and enjoy some southern hospitality and meet some of the group.
Thank you for your welcome Jim and Joan,
Glad to be aboard here and looking forward to sharing information with all the c brats.
And you are right about catching up on the past posts , a few things we wanted to post about were found in old posts.
I will enjoy catching up with old threads before I put my foot in my mouth.
Take it easy all, and enjoy whats left of the season , for us in the north east the days are getting shorter and the boating season is starting to shorten quickly also .
Frob
Glad to be aboard here and looking forward to sharing information with all the c brats.
And you are right about catching up on the past posts , a few things we wanted to post about were found in old posts.
I will enjoy catching up with old threads before I put my foot in my mouth.
Take it easy all, and enjoy whats left of the season , for us in the north east the days are getting shorter and the boating season is starting to shorten quickly also .
Frob
Westfield and Frob,
I beg to differ with your posturing my post about avoiding prolonged idling of diesel engines as a clickish ploy to defend the Ranger 21 EC.
I do not own a 21 EC and have never ridden in one.
I do own a couple of fairly new diesel trucks, tractors and one diesel motorhome, ALL of which contain warnings in the owner's manual to avoid prolonge idling.
If you two know of new info on that line, it is certainly appreciated and I hope you will inform Cummins, Ford, and John Deere about the error of their ways.
However, for you to couch my simple sharing of my experience with diesels as being a blind defense of an inferior boat design is really stretching a pontless point.
If the 21 EC does not fit your needs, if you don't like the 21 EC , don't buy it, but give us a break. We all now know what you like and do not like.
Maybe you can go to the Harley Owner's site and bad mouth any model of bike Harley makes that does not fit your needs.
John
I beg to differ with your posturing my post about avoiding prolonged idling of diesel engines as a clickish ploy to defend the Ranger 21 EC.
I do not own a 21 EC and have never ridden in one.
I do own a couple of fairly new diesel trucks, tractors and one diesel motorhome, ALL of which contain warnings in the owner's manual to avoid prolonge idling.
If you two know of new info on that line, it is certainly appreciated and I hope you will inform Cummins, Ford, and John Deere about the error of their ways.
However, for you to couch my simple sharing of my experience with diesels as being a blind defense of an inferior boat design is really stretching a pontless point.
If the 21 EC does not fit your needs, if you don't like the 21 EC , don't buy it, but give us a break. We all now know what you like and do not like.
Maybe you can go to the Harley Owner's site and bad mouth any model of bike Harley makes that does not fit your needs.
John
drjohn71a, Whew....feel better now?
We do own a ranger tug as well as another diesel powered boat with over 2000 hrs on it mostly chugging along, runs great but that doesn't prove anything either.
My reply was not to start a fued and I am having a hard time trying to actually understand your reply no was talking about the design of the boat when talking about the engine or rpm while running.
Also if you would like me to follow your lead as if your opinion proves anything by how many diesels you own, please pm me as we own one of the largest pile driving companys on the east coast and it would take me hours to list all the diesels we own.
As far as the manufactures you listed I can name quite a few more that we work VERY closely with and have many mechanics whom have worked for, taught ,engineered, and retired from a few of the companys you mentioned and then some,currently in our employment .
I would be glad to have a few of them explain it to you or perhaps have them give you a tour of one of the oil analyesis labs , I will stop here so I do not bore everyone .
Please let us know if we can be of assistance to better help you to understand and read between the lines of your diesel owners manual....Jon
We do own a ranger tug as well as another diesel powered boat with over 2000 hrs on it mostly chugging along, runs great but that doesn't prove anything either.
My reply was not to start a fued and I am having a hard time trying to actually understand your reply no was talking about the design of the boat when talking about the engine or rpm while running.
Also if you would like me to follow your lead as if your opinion proves anything by how many diesels you own, please pm me as we own one of the largest pile driving companys on the east coast and it would take me hours to list all the diesels we own.
As far as the manufactures you listed I can name quite a few more that we work VERY closely with and have many mechanics whom have worked for, taught ,engineered, and retired from a few of the companys you mentioned and then some,currently in our employment .
I would be glad to have a few of them explain it to you or perhaps have them give you a tour of one of the oil analyesis labs , I will stop here so I do not bore everyone .
Please let us know if we can be of assistance to better help you to understand and read between the lines of your diesel owners manual....Jon
Frob,
I am anchored out on my boat this weekend, and using laptop power to scan posts and post back. I may have missed the exact focus of the recent posts on this thread, BUT the basis of my upset is that there are many differing designs of boats, trucks, motorcycles, etc., and we each choose the one that best fits our needs and want to be happy with that. It is entirely understandable that some ppl do not like the performance of the 21 EC, and if they want to go on an open, generic site to pound home their unhappiness, that is fine. However, it is not polite to go to an owner's group site and launch waves of relentless criticism on those ppl's choices.
As for diesels, I feel I have to respect the owner's manuals of the diesel equipment I own and operate. Perhaps you are such a diesel expert that you can override the manufacturers' instructions, or perhaps you own diesels which can operate indefinitely at idle without negative repercussions. I was upset that, after my note of my small experience with diesels, the remark was posted containing something about blind defense of an inferior design or such.
Example of how this thread may be seen by others, as posted on the Schwinn MoPed owner's group site:
SCHWINN MOPED - MY OPINION!!!!
This weekend I was ready to sign the papers on a new Schwinn Moped and took one out on a test drive. I was AMAZED to discover that the moped would not go over 30 mph!!! What kind of engineering is that?
On top of that, there is not enough room for my cooler, television, and camping gear. Also, with my wife and I both aboard, the moped won't even go it's advertised 30 mph speed.
I think the engineers should have known better than to put such a small motor on that moped. I think they should have put a 75 hp motor on it so we could drive it faster. Also, an extra wheel or two to make it wider would leave more room for my, my passenger, and cargo.
I have owned hundreds of motorcycles, so I know the best design and operation parameters of ALL motorcycles, and anyone who does not agree with me simply does not have even normal mental abilities.
I think owners would be best served with a 200 horsepower engine on these mopeds. You could still drive them at 30mph at idle indefinitely without any harm, nor waste in production/use materials.
Anybody who posts that their owners' manuals warn to avoid prolonged operation at idle speeds are idiots because I know everything and they need to re-write their owners manuals.
Also, I cannot understand how anybody could take offense to my sharing of my irrefutable, all-knowing, ultimate expertitious judgement on how all you lower beings should live their life.
Anonymous...
I am anchored out on my boat this weekend, and using laptop power to scan posts and post back. I may have missed the exact focus of the recent posts on this thread, BUT the basis of my upset is that there are many differing designs of boats, trucks, motorcycles, etc., and we each choose the one that best fits our needs and want to be happy with that. It is entirely understandable that some ppl do not like the performance of the 21 EC, and if they want to go on an open, generic site to pound home their unhappiness, that is fine. However, it is not polite to go to an owner's group site and launch waves of relentless criticism on those ppl's choices.
As for diesels, I feel I have to respect the owner's manuals of the diesel equipment I own and operate. Perhaps you are such a diesel expert that you can override the manufacturers' instructions, or perhaps you own diesels which can operate indefinitely at idle without negative repercussions. I was upset that, after my note of my small experience with diesels, the remark was posted containing something about blind defense of an inferior design or such.
Example of how this thread may be seen by others, as posted on the Schwinn MoPed owner's group site:
SCHWINN MOPED - MY OPINION!!!!
This weekend I was ready to sign the papers on a new Schwinn Moped and took one out on a test drive. I was AMAZED to discover that the moped would not go over 30 mph!!! What kind of engineering is that?
On top of that, there is not enough room for my cooler, television, and camping gear. Also, with my wife and I both aboard, the moped won't even go it's advertised 30 mph speed.
I think the engineers should have known better than to put such a small motor on that moped. I think they should have put a 75 hp motor on it so we could drive it faster. Also, an extra wheel or two to make it wider would leave more room for my, my passenger, and cargo.
I have owned hundreds of motorcycles, so I know the best design and operation parameters of ALL motorcycles, and anyone who does not agree with me simply does not have even normal mental abilities.
I think owners would be best served with a 200 horsepower engine on these mopeds. You could still drive them at 30mph at idle indefinitely without any harm, nor waste in production/use materials.
Anybody who posts that their owners' manuals warn to avoid prolonged operation at idle speeds are idiots because I know everything and they need to re-write their owners manuals.
Also, I cannot understand how anybody could take offense to my sharing of my irrefutable, all-knowing, ultimate expertitious judgement on how all you lower beings should live their life.
Anonymous...
drjohn71a":3e485jyw said:
I'll admit I went around venting my frustrations the wrong way on the forum - if it's any excuse at all, I went up to buy the little tug and after spending some time on her, I let her few negatives get the best of me and vented my frustration on the forum. I knew at the get-go she would only do 10 knots so that was not a major problem, but I did have serious reservations about the cabin, unlike most of the users here - the 21 was going to be a work boat for me and the cramped quarters would have been a serious drawback.
On a positive side - they did have a R25 parked next to her and my wife could not hardly get me out of the boat. Right now I'm just trying to ingest the $150K!
Again my apologizes to the board and it's users!
by the way - concerning the Moped - the 30 mph is a state to state speed limit regulation to make it legal (in some states) to operate without a license & insurance. However in most cases you can remove the baffles in the exhaust and obtain up to 45 mph on some scooter/mopeds.
I had not taken offense to any posts about my tug we know it well and are very pleased with our toy boat, and enjoy chatting good or bad about the tugs. As a matter of fact for us it had surpassed what we thought it would be, we love the tug.
We do not want to offend anyone and are going to put this interesting thread to rest as it is going far off topic for us and seems to be getting a bit hostile for our taste. Us new yorkers tend to grow a thicker skin than most and at times enjoy a good arguement and can go a bit to far for most. So again this one is going to bed for us, thanks for the laughs I found it most humorous :lol:
Just wondering drjohn...Are you a real MD or do you just play one on the site ?
BTW ,if anyone would like to discuss motorcycles I would be glad to respond to a pm . I have raced street , moto-x, super-x , and was at the motard track this morning for practice for the race on sunday , besides boats anything on two wheels has been a hobby of mine for over twenty years now racing.
have a happy, Frob
We do not want to offend anyone and are going to put this interesting thread to rest as it is going far off topic for us and seems to be getting a bit hostile for our taste. Us new yorkers tend to grow a thicker skin than most and at times enjoy a good arguement and can go a bit to far for most. So again this one is going to bed for us, thanks for the laughs I found it most humorous :lol:
Just wondering drjohn...Are you a real MD or do you just play one on the site ?
BTW ,if anyone would like to discuss motorcycles I would be glad to respond to a pm . I have raced street , moto-x, super-x , and was at the motard track this morning for practice for the race on sunday , besides boats anything on two wheels has been a hobby of mine for over twenty years now racing.
have a happy, Frob
Oh the fun I have been missing while on the road. ....and folks ain't even iced in yet.
Had a great day on a R-21-EC down in FL with Marc from Wefings one day...it was a slow day, but a great day. The boat is....well, it is what it is...and that is it. If ya like it cool. It is a sweet boat for what it is...and I am a bit larger than some small people so fitting me and Marc in the cabin took a bit of timing....but, if ya wanta have fun on the waters...ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Great day as I recall...but slow...and that was fine..we knew the boat we were on...
My regret, is simply that time/travel...or more directly, my choices of how I spent my time, prevented me from getting up in the NW with my young, a bit over 80 friend Dusty, who has a ....to word it as my TX C-Brat friend might (tell the Blond and the cat I said Hey!!).... Dusty would be described as a man with a small hat....and many cattle. Well... I never made it up there to enjoy one of those days pulling shrimp on his 21. But there is hope...he is working on a CD-22A classic.
Yall go get out on your boats. :thup :thup
Byrdman
Had a great day on a R-21-EC down in FL with Marc from Wefings one day...it was a slow day, but a great day. The boat is....well, it is what it is...and that is it. If ya like it cool. It is a sweet boat for what it is...and I am a bit larger than some small people so fitting me and Marc in the cabin took a bit of timing....but, if ya wanta have fun on the waters...ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Great day as I recall...but slow...and that was fine..we knew the boat we were on...
My regret, is simply that time/travel...or more directly, my choices of how I spent my time, prevented me from getting up in the NW with my young, a bit over 80 friend Dusty, who has a ....to word it as my TX C-Brat friend might (tell the Blond and the cat I said Hey!!).... Dusty would be described as a man with a small hat....and many cattle. Well... I never made it up there to enjoy one of those days pulling shrimp on his 21. But there is hope...he is working on a CD-22A classic.
Yall go get out on your boats. :thup :thup
Byrdman
Happy to see ya back, Pat. That 21ec just ain't designed for the Byrdguy I know :wink: -- but with your soon-to-be swelt figure you'll probably fit.
Come up when you can -- the BBQ joint guys say they miss you -- and Dusty does. My pinhead takes a small hat, but the danged white still shows around the edges. :thdown
Duster
Come up when you can -- the BBQ joint guys say they miss you -- and Dusty does. My pinhead takes a small hat, but the danged white still shows around the edges. :thdown
Duster
As a final note to this thread I started - I thought I'd mention that I did end up buying a Ranger 25 instead of the R-21 -I'm really enjoying the boat - I love everything but the payments! :lol:
Again my apologies if I offended any R21 owners with my blabbering - I still think the R21 is one off the neatest looking boats out there!
Again my apologies if I offended any R21 owners with my blabbering - I still think the R21 is one off the neatest looking boats out there!
I spent over a week cooking daily our 21 EC in the galley! Your comments are observational based on no experience actually boating any time in this boat. Husband is 6'3" and 230 pounds and I am 5'6" and 125 lbs and we do great in this boat for days on end sleeping a board and cooking meals. We did cut the helm seat down by four inches to make it more comfortable. The seat over the galley is awesome. The boat handles rough water and has never failed us. The cockpit is amazing and the only reason we don't go with a larger boat up to 25 feet is because we simply cannot find a cockpit that allows for so much leisure space. Both of us can be on the back bench enjoying the views with our legs up and a cold drink on our table. Guests can sit on the motor bench comfortably and do. We've had six on for dinner with no issues. We boat to be in nature and the 21 EC affords us that. While we can get her to 7 knots easily we prefer to cruise at 5-6. If we needed higher speeds we would have a different boat. The enclosed cockpit gives us lots of comfort, including heat or sun protection while underway if we both want to be inside. We've looked into C-Dory 22 only to see about getting grandchildren accommodation and just can't stomach the closed off v-berth and lack of cockpit. We might consider a used 23 Venture eventually if they are made without any wood in the hull because it looks like the entire cockpit could accommodate some modular seating arrangements. We looked at a 21" Marinaut- again, small cockpit. I think the comments are way off base. Small boats are not for anyone or everyone but they do serve a purpose and for us, this boat is amazing. We even think we can solve the grandchildren sleeping arrangements by using the floor area with air mattress and sleeping bags or building a table extension. Still working on that. Do agree that a seven for width would have been a good plan however I am sure that didn't happen for good reason. We don't have a 25' Ranger tugs because we don't want to deal with all the complexities of that boat and the 23' has planing hull that does it's best at 18-22 knots- just not our preferred cruising speed. Also what we want from a boat depends on lifestyle wants. Dead simple maintenance is critical to us at this period before retirement. Compared to a larger boat- sure there are challenges because you do have to move things to get at things. However for dead simple, reliable, overall comfortable, economical and able to allow for onboard toilet, sink, refrigerator. sleeping and cooking it is a jewel. And it goes 60-70 miles an hour up the road so we can haul it to lots of different waterways. Super convenient and easy to launch- a real jewel.