Replacing anchor rode and chain

I am new to power boats but have messed around in dinghy's and sail boats all my life.
My 22 cruiser came with the 16lb Bruce and some iffy looking chain. First thing I did was swap out the chain for high test and change the rode from 3/8" to 1/2". I wasn't sure whether to get 25' or 50' of chain, so settled for 35'. This set up works fine hauling in by hand, but any heavier, one would have to consider putting in a windlass. I know George on Kerri On likes heavier ground tackle, so he installed a windlass.

Martin.
 
The 33 would be overkill. The 22/25 are used mostly on the 25's. I have a 14 Delta and couple 7# Fortress. 28 lbs weight, but a lot more versatile. I had the delta, if not I would have gotten the Ronca or sopreme. Look at fluke area and design for that specific bottom type, as well as weight.

As for ammo; I want the right weapon and enough accurate shots...street carry I would go with a, 45, with three 7 round magazines, vs a .50 with 6 belts....

A 33 lb anchor would be more difficult to handle.
 
kennharriet":2n21w1vp said:
Terry, Thanks for starting this thread. I learned a great deal once again from all the experience from the group. We are definitely under gunned with only a 5 kg (11lb) Bruce type claw anchor on our 22 for the PNW. We are considering upgrading to the Rocna 22lb or 33lb. Would the 33lb with 25' of 1/4" chain be overkill? The Manson Supreme is also similarly priced and offered in 25lb or 35lb. Would the larger be overkill?

It's great when you all share your wisdom. My wife tells me to go ahead and spend the money on upgrades as long as you all recommend it. :D
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I have a 15lb Manson Supreme with 50 feet of chain and it's wonderful. It sets amazingly quickly and holds well on 3:1 scope. In 50+ nights at anchor, I've yet to be disappointed, including some nights with winds above 30 knots.

I tried to put a 22lb Delta on the boat, but it was too large and required changes to the bow roller setup. A 22lb Rocna or 25lb Manson might require similar changes, and I'm sure the 33/35lb models would.
 
From Defender.com:

DELTA anchor by LEWMAR:

Anchor Weight 14 lbs
Recommended Chain Size 1/4"
Power Boat Size 24 Feet - 30 Feet
Sailboat Size 26 Feet - 31 Feet
 
As the original poster to this thread, I have read all the great information with interest and learned quite a bit. It is interesting that the thread is now back to the original topic.

I really like the idea about tying off from the cleat near the window with a length of rope attached to the anchor rode forming a small V to minimize boat swing. I will have to try that.

My wife is an experienced boater and I am a novice, other than a 16 foot old Hewescraft River Runner I have used to fish the Kenai River in Alaska for the last 13 years, I don't have any experience in bays or in Puget Sound where we will cruise. The one thing that I have learned which is universal is to take my time when at the helm. Even in the Kenai where the current runs at about 8 miles an hour, things happen relatively slowly. I have also learned the incredible value of having a telescoping boat pole for use in shallow water or near a dock.

I have learned so much on this site despite my wife asking me why I spend so much time on this site! This is an incredible resource and is a testament to the love we all have for our C-Dorys.

Terry
 
Due to us having very minimal boating experience prior to us purchasing our CD 22 & knowing we were not going to wait & gain experience before heading to Alaska, I spent many many hours during the Wyoming winter following the boats purchase in early Jan 2003 reading everything I could find pertaining to Southeast Alaska Cruising. High on that list was all the aspects of anchoring. From all that reading, followed by experience gained with many thousands of miles cruised & numerous days & nights spent at anchor in a multitude of conditions, I was until just recently convinced the 22 lb. claw anchor, 30 foot of 1/4 chain & 3/8 nylon twisted three strand in a length near 500 feet was just right for me without a windless, other than being hard on the hands when retrieving. The extra length gained being able to fit more of the 3/8 rode over 1/2 in the locker convinced me it was worth the extra hand pain. During last summers three month Southeast Alaska cruise for the first time I had trouble several times getting the 22 lb claw to set. With that in mind & the combination of sore hands from anchor retrieval & positive comments from Sam during his long cruise last summer & others on the 15 lb Manson Supreme anchor, 50 feet of 1/4 inch chain & 1/2 inch 8 plait rode, I've decided its time to make the change.

This all leads to the question of how many feet of the 1/2 inch 8 plait rode with 50 feet of chain can I squeeze into the locker of the made in 2000 Hunkydory? I realize the 1/2 inch 8 plait will lay in the locker much better than the 3/8 three strand, but not by how much & I would like to fit as much length as possible without over purchasing to obtain it. With Defender's sale on now its a good time to buy & they will sell what ever length of rode & chain combination I request with a road to chain splice.

Jay
 
Jay,

Have you seen Sam's photo of retriever's anchor locker? I'll post it here for convenience. You might be able to fit more, depending on what your bulkhead looks like (maybe you have added onto it or could), but at least you can see what this amount looks like.

This is 50' of 1/4" chain and 300' of 1/2" 8-plait (Yale Brait).

SAM_8522.jpg

I'm another who benefitted from Sam's photos and review of his ground tackle in making choices :thup
 
There is an other alternative to Jay's delima of trying to get 500 feet of rode into the 22's anchor locker. One way is to modify the anchor locker by sloping the bulkhead aft. Second is to buy the 300 feet of 1/2" plait we know will fit in the locker, and back this with 200 feet of 1/4" Spectra or vectran (tensile strength 8,000 lbs) for those very rare times you anchor in more than 100'+ of water. The 1/4" material is abrasion resistant, and you will not be " handing" the rode until at about 100'. Drive the boat up to take up slack. The 200' of 1/4" will fit in the very bottom of the locker, taking very little space. This type of material is often used on reel type anchor winches as backing.
 
I did fit 300 feet of 1/2" 8-plait and 50 feet of 1/4" chain in the locker, but this required "rearranging" the rode a couple of times when pulling the anchor in. Otherwise, the windlass would "choke up" since there wasn't adequate free fall. Not a big deal, really, but a bit of a hassle.

More importantly, I never needed all the rode I had. Before heading out next summer I'm actually going to get rid of 50 or 100 feet of the 1/2" 8-plait.

The biggest problem I had was the windlass stopped "grabbing" the 8-plait rode. Part of this was because the control arm screw had bent. But even after replacing the screw the windlass didn't work well with the 8-plait. I switched over to my backup anchor rode (20 feet of 1/4" chain, 200 feet of 3 strand nylon) and the windlass worked fine. As best as I can tell, the 8-plait had become stiff with salt/mud and got jammed up in the hawse pipe where the vertical windlass feeds the rode into the locker. I suspect this would have happened with 3 strand rode as well. Another project before the next trip is to thoroughly clean the 8-plait and maybe soak it in fabric softener to make the rode suppler.

Jay, are you also adding a windlass? If not, the above issues are much less important, and you'll also be able to fit a bit more rode in the locker since free fall distance won't be as important.

Finally, I got my rode from a company called Seco South, which at the time had the best prices I could find. Defender's sale may change that...

Sam
 
Sunshine, thanks for the photo it shows just what I wanted to see.

Bob, thanks for both of your suggestions of which I agree either would work. I also agree its rare to need more than 300 feet total. The most I've used so far is just under 400 feet. Last summer after losing our anchor, chain & some rode in Red Bluff Bay we were down to around 400 feet, but still could extend if needed to 600 feet + due to two spare lengths of 200 feet, each set with a clevis that can be quickly attached to the eye made in the bitter end of the anchor rode. I had set this up for the double purpose of possible need for a normal deep anchorage & the rare chance of needing a deep water anchorage to keep off the rocks on a lee shore by buying time for rescue or repair of steerage or motor loss. Don't want to modify the locker, so will do similar to your 2nd suggestion. I will go with the 300 feet or maybe even less of the 1/2 inch , so it will fit well in the locker & as I'm already set up with the spare 3/8, again put an eye in the bitter end of the main 300 feet for a quick extension with the spare if needed.

Sam, Bob's anchor test showing how well the Manson Supreme compared to the others he tested & your experience last summer with the combination of it, chain & rode along with many others good experiences with the Manson Supreme or the similar working Delta has really helped in not only making the anchor change, but the combination of chain & rode too.

I'm still not going with windless & doubt that I will until I can no longer do by hand, but don't think I will gain more space for length increase without a windless due to the location of the present hand feed return being off center to starboard. With the line I have now at times it's hard to feed back in & when stiff with salt a real pain. JoLee has had to shift it carefully in the locker several times after anchoring deep with a lot of line out, so I could keep going. I plan to presoak including treatment with fabric softener before going into the locker the first time & thinking about washing the salt off periodically while at Marinas during our next extended salt water cruise.

Thanks for info,

Jay
 
So, I received my 15lb Manson Supreme anchor today and it does not fit well on the anchor roller that previously supported the 5kg Bruce. Anyone with the 15lb Manson have a model number for their anchor roller?

It's a conspiracy!
 
You may have the same roller that came stock on my 2002. I could sort of get the 15# Manson Supreme to fit, but.... not really. I got the part number for the anchor roller that Sam uses successfully with the same anchor on Retriever. I ordered both that one and an "extended" version, and decided I liked the longer one better (more deck protection), so I kept that one and installed it. We talked more about it in this thread, including photos of the Manson Supreme on Retriever.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=18642


But I'll pop back with the part number and photos here as well.

Edited to add:

Okay, here is the Sea Dog "Seahook" that came stock on my boat. Not a good fit with the 15# Manson Supreme.

anchor_roller.sized.jpg

Here is the roller I mounted. It's Sea-Dog part # 328064R, "Extended" anchor roller. Basically the same roller that was on (at least some) late-2000's 22 Cruisers except on this "extended" version the channel section is slightly more than 4" longer, and the bail is slightly different (round vs. flat). All of the "extension" is mounted inboard (in other words, the part of the roller that goes past the bow is the same length on this installation and on the regular length roller on Retriever.

long_roller.jpg

I also fit the anchor onto a BRM-2 (on another boat) and wasn't all that thrilled with it, although it worked.

Sunbeam
 
Dreamer":2tdc59lt said:
Terry,

A few thoughts on anchoring in the PNW, others will disagree, but this is my experience. More chain! If I had it to do over, I'd use 100'! We had 50' of 1/4" HT and it was wonderful. With a 22# Delta FastSet on the TomCat, it never, ever failed to set and hold. With a 35# on our Krogen and 300' of 5/16" chain, it never, ever failed to set and hold. That's in 12 years of boating the PNW!

If you ever think of getting a windlass, the double braid will not work in the Gypsy. I prefer the 3 strand for anchor rode.

A lightweight anchor like the Fortress or Guardian makes a good back-up or stern anchor,. They can be broken down and stored in a small space.

In the past, I have sprayed the rode heavily for a foot at various lengths with red, green, blue, etc. and made a laminated reference card to keep at the helm and on deck. The paint lasted for several seasons.

The definitive book on Anchoring is "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" by Earl Hinz.

Enjoy the area, it's the best cruising there is!
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Just ordered the Anchoring book. Looking forward to learning more about the process. Hopefully it will allow us to sleep more soundly at night.
 
I anchor by hand, no windlass. I painted bars on the anchor rode. Blue of course to match the boat. Each bar represents 50ft. So when 4 bars come up on deck and over the side, I know I have 200ft out.

Martin.
 
Sorry to raise a dead thread, but I am going through this now on my new to us 26 Venture. It came with about 10 feet of shoddy looking 1/2 chain and about 30 feet of rotten 3 strand.

It does have a windlass and I was thinking of 50 foot of quality 1/4 g4 chain followed by 200' of 3 strand. Am I thinking about this the right way? Are their better options?
 
haakebecks":2ohg0s43 said:
It does have a windlass and I was thinking of 50 foot of quality 1/4 g4 chain followed by 200' of 3 strand. Am I thinking about this the right way? Are their better options?
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Anchor/rode somewhat depends on where/how you typically anchor (although of course with a trailerable boat, that could be anywhere!). But that sounds reasonable. One thing you might check, since you already have a windlass, is what the existing gipsy takes for chain size, so you can match it. It may very well be 1/4" G-4, but with the price of chain it would be a bummer to find out otherwise.

For this boat I decided to try Yale "Brait" (8-plait) for the rope part of the rode because it packs down smaller in the locker, and the 22's is not all that large. We'll see how it works.
 
Sunbeam is right. Windlasses are designed for certain types of chain. Check the manufacturer's site to find out what yours calls for. And, make sure your windlass is set up for braided line before you get it. Some are better with three strand.
 
From the photos in your album it looks as if you have a Lewmar V 700 windlass, and the G 4 1/4" with 1/2" line would be an excellent choice. I might go with 300 feet depending on where you are anchoring. But 200 feet is pretty standard. I have not used plait with this specific windlass, but the vertical are a bit more difficult to get a grip than the horizontal chain/gypsy on the line.
 
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