Somebody Needs to Be Buying NEW C-Dorys

$15,000 is not peanuts when a company doesn't have it. And building the boats means paying off suppliers for parts, resin, glass cloth, windows, motors, trailers, etc. Hence an investment of between 1/4 and 1/2 a million dollars. Many suppliers are on a "cash-only" basis at this point.

The financing I'm talking about isn't for the buyers, it's for the builder to be able to build the boat. And based on what we see, the factory just doesn't have the money on hand, or the available capital to build half a dozen boats and secure space in the boat show. Banks just aren't willing to advance money to boat builders right now- they've been burned by too many builders going out of business (including Sea Sport).

And beleive me, Triton knows the value of the Seattle Boat Show, as the principals were selling Sea Sports out of that show for years.

It's certainly not lack of knowledge, or lack of build skills. It is simply lack of money and lack of market. If it were otherwise, the factory would be all over itself getting space and boats built to show.
 
I have to agree with Matt, sorry matt this has a bad effect sometimes, about building boats right now. There are to many cheaper used boats on the market right now for buyers to look at newer boats at the levels the factories need to stay open.

Its very much like the housing market. There are far to many cheap used homes on the market to justify banks lending money to bulider to flood the market with new homes. Oh there are some being built but not at the levels needed to create the jobs this area used to see.

As they say you can build the house but you cant make them buy it. or lend on it for that matter.
 
And yet, Tom, Centex, D.R. Horton and CamWest are selling 115 NEW homes a year in Snoqualmie alone. Polygon is just starting a 145 new home development in North Bend. Many builders are doing a significant number of new homes in Issaquah Highlands too. Not all doom in gloom in the new housing market, and I don't think necessarily in new boats either.

We will all just have to wait and see if / how Triton shows at the 2012 SBS. Three more months will tell the story. They could do it. They could have a couple of boats to display, out of the ones they are currently building (and they are currently building boats, at least they were when I stopped in more or less monthly during the summer while at Birch Bay), staged to the hilt with flowers and the dinette set for two, soft music, nice scents, sales materials and a couple of friendly Triton sales people who enthusiastically greet anybody who shows the remotest interest, instead of ignoring them like Master Marine did.

Sound familiar? It is a tried and true formula. They could fill their production slots for the year this way. Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis did it again and again with C-Dory and continue to do it with Ranger / Cutwater. It is lack of vision and strategy, you just cannot blame it on a "slow" market. There has been no interest in C-Dorys at dealers because there are no C-Dorys to show, and nobody is marketing C-Dorys, period (except, it appears possibly Sportcraft, which is a great positive sign). Why would there be consumer interest in a product nobody is marketing? So, can they muster the cash they need to show up at the SBS? Scott Boysen told me they will be there, but we will all have to wait and see I suppose. And if they do show up, what they can do with the opportunity.

Matt of course disagrees, and I respect his perspective and yours. Tell you what, if they don't show, or do show but blow the opportunity to do what needs to be done, I will treat you and Susan to dinner at the Taproom. You can treat Patty and me to Teatro Zinzanni if Triton shows up and does a credible job. Rogerbum gets to score this. Fair deal? :lol:

starcrafttom":gl72jfil said:
I have to agree with Matt, sorry matt this has a bad effect sometimes, about building boats right now. There are to many cheaper used boats on the market right now for buyers to look at newer boats at the levels the factories need to stay open.

Its very much like the housing market. There are far to many cheap used homes on the market to justify banks lending money to bulider to flood the market with new homes. Oh there are some being built but not at the levels needed to create the jobs this area used to see.



As they say you can build the house but you cant make them buy it. or lend on it for that matter.
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Pat Anderson":2971dl5n said:
<stuff clipped> Rogerbum gets to score this. Fair deal? :lol:
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Hey - How did I get dragged into this? Also, I think you might want to toss in a pony keg for the $ value of dinner at the taproom to equal the cost of tickets to a dinner a Teatro Zinzanni.
 
Shhh...I was waiting for Tom to figure that out!

Actually, we have done two absolutely wonderful Teatro Zinzanni nights with Tom and Susan and we are hoping for some more, worth every penny!

rogerbum":z8f9ul9t said:
Hey - How did I get dragged into this? Also, I think you might want to toss in a pony keg for the $ value of dinner at the taproom to equal the cost of tickets to a dinner a Teatro Zinzanni.
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The problems with C-Dory is they just build too good of a boat. If they built crap, us old guys with old boats would have to buy new ones. But, they didn't build crap, so we still have our old stuff that is still far from being like some of the crap that some builders build now. Does this crap make any sense????
 
I have missed this thread , Pat , I especially appreciate your thoughts. Fortunately we have been blessed and busy selling boat of all kinds [including Tugs] and are anxiously awaiting our 2 new C Dorys currently in construction. With a commitment from us and a commitment from the factory to support each other its almost like rebuilding the brand , making it a little more like the old days , we will be bringing C Dorys to boat shows this coming winter and spring . I feel that if there are boats in stock,available ,rigged correctly for the area and the end user,,and an enthusiastic dealer,people will come and boats will be sold .We don't need a dealer on every corner.It has a very wide appeal.How many of you traveled far and wide for your boats ? If we make it as good of an experience as we can , real buyers will come.Marketing is in the works , but patience is a virtue with both the dealers and the Mfg. I have been looking forward to a resurgence for quite a while . There will be a stream of articles coming along in the near future in some major [east coast and national] magazines . We all work together as best we can.
We plan for all types of trailerable trawlers to be a big part of our [Wefings] business plan in the long term future .
Marc
 
Good news, Marc. Sounds like you havea little bit of inside knowledge, and that is encouraging. Keeping our fingers crossed here!

Wefings":2foewr6c said:
I have missed this thread , Pat , I especially appreciate your thoughts. Fortunately we have been blessed and busy selling boat of all kinds [including Tugs] and are anxiously awaiting our 2 new C Dorys currently in construction. With a commitment from us and a commitment from the factory to support each other its almost like rebuilding the brand , making it a little more like the old days , we will be bringing C Dorys to boat shows this coming winter and spring . I feel that if there are boats in stock,available ,rigged correctly for the area and the end user,,and an enthusiastic dealer,people will come and boats will be sold .We don't need a dealer on every corner.It has a very wide appeal.How many of you traveled far and wide for your boats ? If we make it as good of an experience as we can , real buyers will come.Marketing is in the works , but patience is a virtue with both the dealers and the Mfg. I have been looking forward to a resurgence for quite a while . There will be a stream of articles coming along in the near future in some major [east coast and national] magazines . We all work together as best we can.
We plan for all types of trailerable trawlers to be a big part of our [Wefings] business plan in the long term future .
Marc
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Pat susan would love another night at the circus but I can't get the bank to loan me the money??

You kind of made my point about the houses. 115 this year? they used to do that a month, and they used to do it everywhere in the sound. i can get the numbers for you if you want from the NWMLS. 2009 marysville built something like 500 homes, this year is less then a 100. Some areas are better then others and to tell the truth its the higher price homes that are still selling thu at a far lower price.

I agree with you that the factory could do more to sell boats. I could sell more boats at the boat show then they did last year. master marine is a awful dealership for the c-dory and always has been. I just think that if you are looking for the factory to sell the volume of boats they once did thats not going to happen. Not enough people have the money or ability to borrow it.

House prices are as low as they were 10 years ago, interest rates are at a all time low, 3.75 to 4%. By all accounts houses should be flying out the door, but people cant get the loans because of higher credit requirement, as they should be. it will take alot more then low prices and rates to get people buying again.

Same goes for boats. and the point the matt made and I agreed with is that if I can get a used c-dory 22 for 30k why would I spent 60k plus for a new one if there is no difference??? until the 30k boats are off the market then 60k boats will sit unsold except to a few with the means to pay for them and only because they want a new boat.

Look at me. there is no reason even if I had the funds to buy a new c-dory. Even if they made a new version of the 27 or Les and Dave build their 25,26,27,??/ ultra light, high speed low drag super cruiser , it will still not be enough of a difference for me to upgrade.

Now I expect Les to sell a few of his boats because they are a up graded version of a c-dory that c-dory is not selling. they have created a reason to own new. new features, better hull, light weight, side tanks etc.. things you cant get in a c-dory.

If you remember when c-dory added the raised deck and glass door they sold a lot of boats. they up graded the design enough to justify the difference in price over a used boat.

You can still buy me dinner at the tap room if you want. :beer
 
This is the question that is as old as time. Buying new is a fine luxury. Buying used...well...

I bought what I perceived and value. The old willing buyer- willing seller of economics.

What the factory has to do is present a product that a willing buyer will pay. If the factory cannot produce what a willing buyer will pay then there will be no factory.

I bought a boat that I am very happy with. I perceived quality, seaworthiness and fuel economy.

My first boat was a 16 ft skagit that I bought for $25.00. at an auction. Seaworthy yes, reliable no...no no no. I had no history with boats, no family culture...never boated ever. Now, Many years and many boats later...And a lot not learning formal and not I wind up with a used Sea Dory. I am probably as happy with the old girl as the the next millionaire buying the latest greatest.

So, be not depressed. Be happy that you got what you wanted, when you could, for the price that worked. Be happy for all of us who are happy c-dory owners

Chris
 
berryst":ae3k2b3r said:
This is the question that is as old as time. Buying new is a fine luxury. Buying used...well...

I bought what I perceived and value. The old willing buyer- willing seller of economics.

What the factory has to do is present a product that a willing buyer will pay. If the factory cannot produce what a willing buyer will pay then there will be no factory.

I bought a boat that I am very happy with. I perceived quality, seaworthiness and fuel economy.

My first boat was a 16 ft skagit that I bought for $25.00. at an auction. Seaworthy yes, reliable no...no no no. I had no history with boats, no family culture...never boated ever. Now, Many years and many boats later...And a lot not learning formal and not I wind up with a used Sea Dory. I am probably as happy with the old girl as the the next millionaire buying the latest greatest.

So, be not depressed. Be happy that you got what you wanted, when you could, for the price that worked. Be happy for all of us who are happy c-dory owners

Chris
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I agree totally. I applaud boat builders like Marinaut who stay "in the know" on what people like you and I want in our boats. There are reasons we love our CD and reasons why many of us make changes to them. A wise boat builder will make these changes or end up in this economy working for someone else.

H :wink:
 
I truly understand the interest that we all have in wanting to produce and sell more new C-Dory boats. Trust me nobody, wants the C-Dory boat line to grow and flourish more than me.

I also uniquely understand that well thought out marketing is a key component to achieving business success. Over the past twenty years we had amazing successes at the Seattle Boatshow with our Sea Sport line. We would display up to ten boats at an enormous expense, but we understood the return on that investment would pay out throughout the year. It was a different time.

I think all dealers and manufacturers are being very careful in analyzing return on investment these days. You have to be confident that every dollar spent is a wise investment. As I said previously, I want C-Dory sales to sky rocket, but I also want to be prudent and have a plan that gives C-Dory its best shot at long term success.

We will continue to build the best boats that we know how and market them in a way that is prudent for market conditions. In the mean time if anyone thinks I am completely wrong, then I would encourage them to order five new boats, become a dealer, deck the boats out, put them in boatshows, sell them, make money, and give me a call and to say "I told you so."

Things are not easy in business these days, but we build great boats and we have great owners that support us, so I am confident that all will be well in time. Oh and I do appreciate everyones comments, even those I may disagree with.
 
Jeff, thanks for the timely post. Their seems to be a question of whether C-dory will have a presence at the 2012 SBS. I believe that it was mentioned earlier that Scott indicated that C-dory would be involved? Can you enlighten us? Thanks in advance for any information that you can share.
 
There is a great opportunity for a dealer here in the Northeast who would ACTIVELY represent and show the C-Dorys at the various boat shows (Portland, ME/Newport, RI/ Boston) of the region. The boating conditions are similar to the PNW (without the great fishing) and the interest in my boat at every lunch ramp, anchorage and gas station tells me there is a lot of interest in a cruiser in the 22-25ft range. The only other offerings are Easterns (emphasis on fishing), Rossboroughs (larger and heavier) and SeaWays (crude construction no cabin).
 
Well, we just like to go against the norm. We bought a NEW C Dory this year! I'd sure like to see more new ones out there (and older ones). I'm sure everyone out there gets the same reaction to your boat as we do. Total strangers want to come on board. My goal in life is to spend my children's inheritance!
 
Moxieabs":37kpb5jr said:
There is a great opportunity for a dealer here in the Northeast who would ACTIVELY represent and show the C-Dorys at the various boat shows (Portland, ME/Newport, RI/ Boston) of the region. The boating conditions are similar to the PNW (without the great fishing) and the interest in my boat at every lunch ramp, anchorage and gas station tells me there is a lot of interest in a cruiser in the 22-25ft range. The only other offerings are Easterns (emphasis on fishing), Rossboroughs (larger and heavier) and SeaWays (crude construction no cabin).
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At one point there was a C-Dory dealer on lake Winnipesaukee in NH. I don't recall seeing any activity from them in a very long time.
 
slapshot":2a7ekru5 said:
Well, we just like to go against the norm. We bought a NEW C Dory this year! I'd sure like to see more new ones out there (and older ones). I'm sure everyone out there gets the same reaction to your boat as we do. Total strangers want to come on board. My goal in life is to spend my children's inheritance!
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It's good to hear that people are buying new C-Dorys! George has posted here of his travels with his new 22, but we haven't heard from others. Thanks for letting us know about your new boat! :thup Congratulations!

Again, here's an opportunity for the factory to do some promoting that is absolutely free.

I bought a new small PA and vocal harmonizer this year from Guitar Center, and I get at least two or three e-mails a week from them... sometimes offering me 15% off Saturday only... or, telling me about a free class for recording that they offer in each store... or, having a "whole band" promotion, where if you buy something, your band mates can get a discount, too. I'm not saying that to promote music equipment, just saying that there is a lot of "getting the word out" that costs absolutely NOTHING. And, it makes me think about music everytime I get one of those e-mails. Imagine if the factory sent out SOMETHING... ANYTHING... once a month or more to let current owners know what they're working on. Or tell a short story about one of their new boat owners cruising in some neat area. Or, offering an "October service special". Or, telling current owners: tell someone about C-Dory and if they buy a new boat and mention that you sent them, you'll get a bird-dog fee. Just something to let people know that stuff is happening with the factory... and did I mention that there is no cash outlay to send that? And, it wouldn't be SPAM if people ask to be on a "Keep Me Posted" e-mail list. Ah, the missed opportunities to tell us all out here in C-Doryland that the factory isn't sitting around twiddling their thumbs... it makes my business-minded little heart ache.

We all assume that they aren't building 25 boats a week, but how many do you assume they're building when you hear... nothing?

Just saying.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
They are not sitting on their hands . I just helped fill the build schedule .
We will have some boats in shows .With a few new ideas.We are not afraid to travel a bit,either .
Marc
 
Wefings":2pu4d847 said:
They are not sitting on their hands . I just helped fill the build schedule .
We will have some boats in shows .With a few new ideas.We are not afraid to travel a bit,either .
Marc
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And you, my friend, know the value of promotion and marketing... love your e-mail newsletter, btw. :thup
 
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