The future of salmon in Puget Sound

Jay's and my (and other's) argument is that you can't have it BOTH ways. Jay presented FACTS. JD presented FACTS. Others presented FEELINGS.
 
I received a reply with the phone number and pin within 8 minutes of sending the e-mail. Sorry, I can't share the number or pin. Here's the response I got.

"Please don’t share this with others just direct them to me since I have a limited number of lines. If you share the call number it may mean that you are not able to access the line. The call will be recorded and made available on our website at the conclusion."

Should be an interesting call...

John
Scallywag
 
rogerbum":iingc0a9 said:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..
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To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
 
I think this is a lively and informative conversation, on a subject we feel deeply about. I really appreciate all that you writers have contributed, as there's much I didn't know. I also have long felt that it should be OK to disagree with one another, even strongly, without tip-towing or avoiding altogether subjects that might agitate. We've always shown that we're all friends here, and emotionally mature enough to restrain our fury when some guy says something that fries our tush. Yeah, the left and the right are going to disagree, but for 17 years we've done a damn fine job of following the administrators directive "Just be nice".
 
Pandion":2lfbm7qo said:
rogerbum":2lfbm7qo said:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..
Click to expand...
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Click to expand...
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.
 
rogerbum":3dfitb5s said:
Pandion":3dfitb5s said:
rogerbum":3dfitb5s said:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..
Click to expand...
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Click to expand...
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?

... and if so, is this essentially a political problem?
 
Pandion":3l4k1co4 said:
rogerbum":3l4k1co4 said:
Pandion":3l4k1co4 said:
rogerbum":3l4k1co4 said:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..
Click to expand...
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Click to expand...
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?

... and if so, is this essentially a political problem?
Click to expand...
Yes, WA state runs being interdicted before they return. That is a large part (but not the only part) of the problem.

ALL of the parts of the problem are ultimately political. Science can provide information on cause of problems and the likely effect of given policy changes but any policy changes will involve winners and losers.

Want better salmon habitat in rivers? You need to regulate land use around the rivers. That affects land owners. Also, you need other sources of energy than dams the limit passage. That affects rate payers. Also, you need to build roads and bridges and drainage systems differently. That affects tax payers.

Want more WA fish to return? You need to assure that WA fish are not caught in huge numbers PRIOR to their return. That affects BC and Alaska fishermen. You also need to agree to distributions of hatchery fish from each jurisdiction such that our hatchery fish have a fair shot at the food in the N Pacific and Bering Sea. That affects other states and countries.

Want more fish for recreational fisher people? Allow the commercial to catch less. That affects the jobs of the commercial fishing industry.

No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING.
 
Terrific synopsis, rogerbum. Ain't no free lunch ... everybody gets squeezed in competition for a scarce resource ... to a greater or lesser extent. The crux is figuring out how to maximize the resource while managing all the intersecting variables that allow us to live reasonable lives.
 
Roger, yes excellent & I agree with all you wrote. I always look forward to reading & thinking about your comments & have great respect for your opinion, whether I end up agreeing or not.

Jay
 
Well, now that you all admit and agree that it is fundamentally a political problem, That's the easy part. OK, so the resource needs to be "managed". How do you do that? Who will do that ? It's those politicians and bureaucrats that you denigrate that have to make the hard choices.
 
Political, Economical, Commercial, Ecological.

Yup, and the fix is going to require everyone to give up something. (That is hard to expect in today's society where everyone thinks they are "owed".)

Or Endowed.

:hug :love :hug2 :thup :thup

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Brent, I will post this in the thread about the Cypress Island escape, and the termination of the fishery.

I see this virus as a grave danger, and something that all of us who are against fish farming fear.

Thanks for bringing this up!
 
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