Tomcat anchor

I will post when I decide. I have built a cardboard full-scale model of it to see how it fits on one at the dealer next week (it's a 2 hour round trip) and how it appears which is important to the boss. For me beauty is as beauty does; I thing A-10s are gorgeous!

I have one on my MaxCat and it is terrific but that's a much bigger boat. Too big for the elderly me which is why we're getting a TomCat. We won't be getting the actual boat until July or so.
 
I took some photos of my ugly cardboard mockup and put them in my album, I think.

This boat was at the dealer and as you can see already had a Lewmar windlass and cleat.
 
Question: How do you secure the anchor rode when the anchor is deployed? I notice that the reel windlass has a capacity of 300 to 500 lbs pull--what are the implications of leaving the load of an anchored boat on the reel?

Finally, are you buying the boat which already has the windlass in place? What back up plate will you use, and how is the access to that plate?

I agree that this reel type of windlass is a very handy device when you are anchoring frequently.
 
The winch itself is the "cleat" that secures the anchor rode to the boat. The reduction gear is a worm drive and so the reel cannot be turned by pulling on the rode. The pull mentioned is that which can be exerted on the rode by the motor but you always use the engine(s) to ease the boat forward when weighing anchor.

There is no windlass on the boat I am buying so this would be a new installation and there will be a backing plate under the foredeck to distribute the load. It should be a lot stronger than the cleat aft of the normal windlass. Access is through the forward lockers. They recommend 3/4 ply as backup but I may use a heavy plastic board.

I like that there is no wet rode inside the hull. no hole through the foredeck and the singlehanded ease of use, always from the helm.

I am still hoping that the experts here can point out some snags before I take delivery of the boat in late June, I think. I grant that it is not beautiful!
 
The reason I asked about the backing plate, is that I wonder, with the size of this windlass, if the plate call all be foreward of the bulkhead?

I have always used aluminum plate to back up windlasses--plywood is also satisfactory, if used with large fender washers. I am not sure I would use "Plastic".

The use of the reel windlass, and no foreward cleat will not allow you to use snubbers--and this may not be important to you.

I personally would not trust my boat to a worm gear, without a solid cleat. Yes, I understand worm gears. But they have been known to fail.
 
I have talked with Ramsey Winch to check on the strength of the worm gear assembly following your good point and the unit used has a max operating load of 8,000 lbs (without a brake) so I am not too worried now about doing without the cleat.

We should get the hull mid-July and I'll do the fitting out then so by end of August I should have some experience.
 
Did not know it was a Ramsey -- they are very highly regarded among the 4-wheeling crowd. If I put a winch on my Dodge it would likely be a Ramsey. So to me, that is an additional (big) point in favor of the EZ Anchor Puller.

Warren
 
Ancora Latina":27qnnpcr said:
Although it is not a TOMCAT, you could be interested to see this ground tackle installation: Bow roller , windlass , cleats on a new Malcom Tennant designed Catamaran:

See:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mtdufour/DominoBowRollerTest?feat=directlink#
And
http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com/2009/01/bow-roller.html

João
Click to expand...

While this post appears to be spam and if it isn't I appoligize it is a interesting anchor design. Especially the breakdown model. Website gives all they deminsions and it would be easy to fab one up. Anybody ever see one of these. I've got a Fortress second anchor and it is more trouble to break down than I want to deal with so I generally leave the cumbersome thing assembled.
 
rogerbum":28ittxpa said:
Yep - looks like a spammer - 3 posts only - all about his commercially available anchor.
Click to expand...

It seems that this section is devoted to ANCHORS and ANCHORING?

Yes this is my favorite topic, but before posting, I have read the « Forum Rules » All they say is " NO RULES – BE NICE".

What CRIME did I do?

Showing an interesting ground tackle installation on:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mtdufour/DominoBowRollerTest?feat=directlink#

Answering "Doryman” who is looking for a collapsible anchor?. Yes, I’m the manufacturer of this anchor, but by doing that I hope to help somebody who has a specific problem to solve.

This is not my conception of SPAMMING; Spamming for me will be if I will have posted a blatant advertising on all anchoring threads.

Yes too I’m an anchor designer and manufacturer, but believe me, I have more experience on this subject than most of you and I can talk (write) many useful info on this subject... without saying « my anchor is the best! »

But if you are not interested to talk about anchors with a « specialist » I don’t mind... I do not think I will loose a lot by not posting on the c-dory forum...

João
 
My spam detector didn't go off, interesting pictures of the bow roller fit up.

Ez Anchor Pull observations-
the traditional V or U shape bow roller that helps to guide the rode onto the windlass is trouble. It will not allow the rode to work its way back and forth across the drum causing it to pile up in the center of the drum and make a mess. A wide, flat bow roller will help to allow proper respooling of the rode otherwise you would need a person on the bow working that line back & forth on the drum as you raise anchor.

Traditional windlass operation dictates that you motor up your rode and wind up the slack. I found that doesn't work so good with the EZ system being that with many loose layers of rode wound on the drum, when you break your anchor loose, the tension on the rode often times causes the rode to dig into the loose wraps not allowing it to unwind. It is hard to see if your anchor is actually going up or down when deploying the anchor, if you have spots where the rode has dug in and bound up on the drum, while you think you're lowering the anchor, it's actually coming up :) A person has to keep an close eye on that drum looking for any tangles.

I think it's a good system, I wish I had one, they just have some different quirks.
 
Joao interesting looking anchor. Have you thought of maybe becoming a site sponsor. Typically when we see a first post with a link to a business first thing that comes to mind is someone is here just trying to sell his wares. If that isn't the case I appoligize. Maybe some of us are a little over protective of the site but we surely don't want to exclude anyone with a genuine interest in C-Dory's. At the sametime we don't want the site to become a big advertisement for Marine Products.
 
I don't see any scientific testing (as much as any anchor tests can be scientific)--with a lot of the web site "in construction".

There are a lot of similarity with the Spade anchor, and the Oceana anchor (now marketed as the "sword" by Spade. Also similar are two pulling angles--the Raya of 32 degrees (the magic number of Robert Danforth from the 1930's) and the 40 (45 in the Fortress) for mud...So this is certainly not a new idea. The variation of the weight, balance, and location of the shank is what separates the various anchors--and perhaps avoids patent infringements. Along with the taper or lack of taper of the roll of the fluke.

It is also similar to the Ronca and the Manson Supreme.

Is it spam? Don't know--but it would appear that the poster put the post here primarily to expose us to his anchor in three different threads...that smacks of Spam...but we all have different definations. He has also done minimal posts about his anchor on a number of other forums--as was done for Spade and Ronca anchors in the past...(we assume different developers).

I'll stick with the anchors I own: Manson Supreme, Delta, Fortress, Danforth, and Northill....plus an old fisherman...They seem to do quite well, and have served me well in winds up to 90 knots in various boats.
 
thataway":1u6vgqd7 said:
There are a lot of similarity with the Spade anchor, and the Oceana anchor (now marketed as the "sword" by Spade. Also similar are two pulling angles........
It is also similar to the Ronca and the Manson Supreme.
.
Click to expand...

The « game of similarity » is a very classical one with anchors! I agree « one anchor looks like an anchor » but in your list of similar anchors, you forget one:

cotecotegrey-copie.jpg

If you are an anchor « expert », you may know that small differences can completely change the characteristics of an anchor. Generally speaking, « similar clones » give much worse results than originals.

The RAYA anchor is an improvement over existing anchors.

Compared to the Spade (and others) its efficient blade surface area, or let’s say the ratio Blade surface area/ total anchor weight, is much bigger ; 1400 sq cm for a 30 kg Spade versus 2000 sq cm for a 30 kg Raya. Or if you prefer more holding for the same weight or again the same efficiency for less weight on the bow...

Compared to the new generation of BSH*anchors (*Big Stupid Hoop) the RAYA doesn’t need the « roll bar » located at the worse part of the blade – the weight of this « roll Bar » reduce the weight at the anchor tip which is not a good thing for the anchor penetration (24% for the Supreme – 34 to 37% for the RAYA)

Similar?? Yes like a Chevrolet car is similar to a Toyota one, both have wheels and engine!

Please, stick with the anchors you own: Manson Supreme, Delta, Fortress, Danforth, and Northill....plus an old fisherman... on our side, we know that ALL characteristics of our new anchor are much better than the ones of all existing anchors.

Tests are on the way and we will report them as soon as they will be published

João
 
Good points, and I had read them on your posts on other forums and web site.

Marketing anchors is difficult--and depends on acceptance by a large number of boaters. In effect the boating sales market in the US is controlled by West Marine. They took on Spade and some Oceane anchors, In our local store, there was one Oceane which eventually went for about $25!--no one was interested and it went for scrap price after sitting on the shelf for several years.

Tests--I am sure you know that they are very difficiult--and to be accepted have to be one of the "big tests"--probably the best of these were like the 2006 West Marine off Santa Cruz (Your Raya apparently was available then, but not tested). Even then, these good tests come up with some surprising tests. The time honored Danforth Pattern (Performance WM) didn't set well and got a very poor rating. I have anchored in the exact same places where these tests were done with a Danforth HT with an excellent set and holding. Surprising to me was the Hyrobubble. I agree about your thoughts on the roll bar, but the anchors, with the roll bar and non roll bar (Ronca vs Spade) and conical vs cylindrical did almost the same--with in error limits of the test. There was little difference between the Ronca and the Manson Supreme. Time or distance to set on various bottoms is difficult to measure--and is often a major problem. I understand your point about weight distribution and shanks etc--but the light weight and large fluke area is one of the disadvantages of an excellent anchor--the Fortress. Paradoxically, the best anchor in our local soft muddy bayou is the Super Max--an anchor has to work down through the mud to clay or sand--and for some reason, this anchor does it better than any others tested.

Price--The Manson is outselling the Ronca and Spade because of price point--it may not be quite as good an anchor--but I have yet to hear of a failure of one (one report of a bent tip--but I have seen almost every type of anchor bent at some point)--and it costs almost half. Your price of $280 plus shipping is too high to be competitive in at least the market in our type of boats. If you are targeting the larger cruising boat market--then you may be price competive (but I have anchored thousands of nights on CQR's and Danforths--and only drug on a handfull of occasions--and under circumstances where any anchor would have drug: ie ball bearing type of 2" diameter rocks). There is no question in my mind that the "second generation" Ronca, Spade, Manson Supreme and I am sure that your Raya is in that group--are better anchors than the CQR or classic Danforths.

Good luck--let us know when you get your anchor included in some good tests, such as West Marine or other (and I do not include the recent Practical sailor type of test).
 
Thanks Bob for all your suggestions.

The boating sales market in the US is controlled by West Marine.
Fortunately not!.. They have not been very successful selling the Spade and the Ocean anchors...

Tests:
Ahhhh tests !!!, if you don’t have them you can’t sell your products – If you are « First » on a test – everybody say that tests are not a good reference.. They are NEVER Scientifics and it is always possible to deeply criticize them...

We should be tested soon (I hope) by two of the most important sailing magazines in the States – this month in New Zealand and in Brazil too...

The test done end of 2007 by SAIL magazine with the collaboration of Chuck Hawley from West marine, was a good one (our anchor was not available at this time)
- The best anchor was the Hydrobubble! and this anchor is no longer on the market as it didn’t sell well...
- One of the good anchors of the test was the « commercial » winner, as « somebody » from the company has published everywhere on internet « MODIFIED » curves showing that his anchor was the « first » - Is « Marketing » more important than tests results?

The time honored Danforth Pattern (Performance WM) didn't set well and got a very poor rating:
As I said earlier most of the time « clones » are not as good as originals...

, but the anchors, with the roll bar and non roll bar (Ronca vs Spade) and conical vs cylindrical did almost the same
Yes, they all went up to the maximum limit of the test (5000 lbs) but what would have been the results if the test have been done up to the max limit of each anchor – the start of dragging ??

but the light weight and large fluke area is one of the disadvantages of an excellent anchor--the Fortress

Light weight is not a problem, AS LONG AS there is enough weight on the tip to start the static part of penetration. It is well known, that CQR below 7 kg doesn’t work, the smallest 2 kg Bruce was discontinued because it didn’t work either.

Although the Fortress is a very good anchor as a secondary one, it has two main problems,
- very low weight at the anchor tips
- wrong penetration angle
When set, it has a very good holding, due to the large surface area of the flukes – The problem is to set it!

the best anchor in our local soft muddy bayou is the Super Max
Soft mud is a problem for most anchors – ideally, the penetrating angle of an anchor should be adapted for each specific density of the sea bed. As this is not easy, anchors have a « MEAN » penetration angle of about 32°. Only a few anchors (Fortress – Super Max – RAYA) have the possibility of changing this angle to have a better adapted angle depending of the conditions of anchoring.

Price:
Yes this is also a very important characteristic, we are looking at all possibilities to reduce the selling price, one possible way we are studying, is to manufacture anchors locally to reduce the shipping costs

Thanks Bob for your wishes, we will keep you informed

Regards

João
 
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