You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Wallas Heater Total Confusion
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
So if you forget the plug will a 1200 GPH bilge pump stay ahead of the flow and for how long?
I think one of us should do a test with different bilge pumps and determine just how much battery capacity/bilge pump capacity is needed to stem the flow until the owner figures out something is amiss.
Preferable a member with freshwater access and lots of time on their hands, that wouldn’t be me.
BTY, part of my check list is to install the plug before the boat leaves the driveway. Jody is my backup, "Hay, did yea put the dang plug in?"
I think one of us should do a test with different bilge pumps and determine just how much battery capacity/bilge pump capacity is needed to stem the flow until the owner figures out something is amiss.
Preferable a member with freshwater access and lots of time on their hands, that wouldn’t be me.
BTY, part of my check list is to install the plug before the boat leaves the driveway. Jody is my backup, "Hay, did yea put the dang plug in?"
Okay, so a LOT of questions, concepts and misconceptions in this post. I will try to clear up what I can:
Wallas builds two different lines of marine products, kerosene products and diesel products. All diesel products have a "D" in their name (as in "30D"). The kerosene line is comprised of products that are older in design, since Wallas started making kerosene (aka "paraffin" in Europe) products more than 35 years ago.
Wallas diesel products came along in the 1990s and any of the diesel products can burn diesel #2, diesel #1 or any of the kerosene fuels approved for the Wallas kerosene products. Wallas kerosene products can't burn diesel.
All of the Wallas stoves (with or without heater lids) and the model 40D furnace draw their combustion air from the cabin, burn it and send it all overboard. While the volume is low (<15cfm), it will typically change out cabin air a couple times a night, drawing fresh air in through the cracks and frames of the boat, replenishing the oxygen and removing respiration moisture from the cabin. If you have an unusually airtight boat, crack a window in the cabin on the side opposite the stove.
There seems to be some confusion about furnace air and exhaust we need to clear up. For all forced air heaters, we need to consider combustion air, makeup air (fresh and return) and exhaust gas.
Unlike other brands, Wallas furnaces and heaters have two separate fans. One is the combustion air fan and the other is the warm air blower. The speeds or rates of these fans are controlled independently of one another, allowing broad power range and continuous use at any power setting.
Combustion air is drawn into the furnace and fed into the combustion chamber, where it is burned and sent overboard as exhaust gas. It can be taken from either the cabin or from outside, depending on preference and on the required volume. Wallas products all have relatively low combustion air demand, so can take their combustion air from either outside or inside the boat, depending on the model.
Makeup air is the air that is drawn in to the furnace to cool the "cold" side of the heat exchanger. Through this process, that air gets warm and is blown into the cabin to heat the room. This air can be taken from inside the cabin ("return air") or from outside the cabin ("fresh air"). Fresh air is rich in oxygen and generally drier than return air. return air is already warm, so will improve the net heating effect. We consider the best installations to include a mix of return and fresh air for the makeup air.
Of the five furnaces in the Wallas line today, three are kerosene models and two are diesel models. All but one (40D) of the furnaces uses what we call "duplex" or "coaxial" exhaust. This system incorporates an exhaust pipe that is fitted inside another pipe. Combustion air is drawn in through the space between these pipes. This preheats the combustion air as it approaches the combustion chamber, adding efficiency. It also means that when wind blows against the through hull fitting, it will be pushing against the exhaust outlet as well as the combustion inlet, meaning it will not effect the burn very much.
The 40D is the highest output furnace Wallas makes. It uses a simple single exhaust pipe, as the stoves do. It has makeup air inlet nipples, which mean it can be installed in a diesel engine room and take makeup air from elsewhere, so the smells and potentially noxious air from the engine(s) will not be introduced into the living quarters. Since it takes its combustion air from the engine room, it will help pull a mild vacuum in the engine space, helping keep smells from entering the living area.
As a final note, nearly all modern forced air diesel furnaces, heaters and stoves burn diesel or kerosene at a very high temperature (about 600C), resulting in extremely efficient burn. This also means there is very little CO produced in the burn process, making these products very safe to use, but all exhaust gas does need to be vented overboard and the exhaust systems should be inspected regularly for cracks or loose fittings.
Here's hoping this helps. Feel free to contact us at Scan Marine if we can be of assistance.
Doug
Wallas builds two different lines of marine products, kerosene products and diesel products. All diesel products have a "D" in their name (as in "30D"). The kerosene line is comprised of products that are older in design, since Wallas started making kerosene (aka "paraffin" in Europe) products more than 35 years ago.
Wallas diesel products came along in the 1990s and any of the diesel products can burn diesel #2, diesel #1 or any of the kerosene fuels approved for the Wallas kerosene products. Wallas kerosene products can't burn diesel.
All of the Wallas stoves (with or without heater lids) and the model 40D furnace draw their combustion air from the cabin, burn it and send it all overboard. While the volume is low (<15cfm), it will typically change out cabin air a couple times a night, drawing fresh air in through the cracks and frames of the boat, replenishing the oxygen and removing respiration moisture from the cabin. If you have an unusually airtight boat, crack a window in the cabin on the side opposite the stove.
There seems to be some confusion about furnace air and exhaust we need to clear up. For all forced air heaters, we need to consider combustion air, makeup air (fresh and return) and exhaust gas.
Unlike other brands, Wallas furnaces and heaters have two separate fans. One is the combustion air fan and the other is the warm air blower. The speeds or rates of these fans are controlled independently of one another, allowing broad power range and continuous use at any power setting.
Combustion air is drawn into the furnace and fed into the combustion chamber, where it is burned and sent overboard as exhaust gas. It can be taken from either the cabin or from outside, depending on preference and on the required volume. Wallas products all have relatively low combustion air demand, so can take their combustion air from either outside or inside the boat, depending on the model.
Makeup air is the air that is drawn in to the furnace to cool the "cold" side of the heat exchanger. Through this process, that air gets warm and is blown into the cabin to heat the room. This air can be taken from inside the cabin ("return air") or from outside the cabin ("fresh air"). Fresh air is rich in oxygen and generally drier than return air. return air is already warm, so will improve the net heating effect. We consider the best installations to include a mix of return and fresh air for the makeup air.
Of the five furnaces in the Wallas line today, three are kerosene models and two are diesel models. All but one (40D) of the furnaces uses what we call "duplex" or "coaxial" exhaust. This system incorporates an exhaust pipe that is fitted inside another pipe. Combustion air is drawn in through the space between these pipes. This preheats the combustion air as it approaches the combustion chamber, adding efficiency. It also means that when wind blows against the through hull fitting, it will be pushing against the exhaust outlet as well as the combustion inlet, meaning it will not effect the burn very much.
The 40D is the highest output furnace Wallas makes. It uses a simple single exhaust pipe, as the stoves do. It has makeup air inlet nipples, which mean it can be installed in a diesel engine room and take makeup air from elsewhere, so the smells and potentially noxious air from the engine(s) will not be introduced into the living quarters. Since it takes its combustion air from the engine room, it will help pull a mild vacuum in the engine space, helping keep smells from entering the living area.
As a final note, nearly all modern forced air diesel furnaces, heaters and stoves burn diesel or kerosene at a very high temperature (about 600C), resulting in extremely efficient burn. This also means there is very little CO produced in the burn process, making these products very safe to use, but all exhaust gas does need to be vented overboard and the exhaust systems should be inspected regularly for cracks or loose fittings.
Here's hoping this helps. Feel free to contact us at Scan Marine if we can be of assistance.
Doug
I've enjoyed this thread and learned a few things to boot which could be useful having made the decision to stick with the Wallas at least in the near future. Know some others feel somewhat differently, but having pretty thoroughly checked out the competition nothing beats the Wallas cooking and heating combination stove for out needs when its working and though I and many others have had difficulties with the working part many many others have not. Think like most things when they don't work when they are really needed the cry is likely to drown out any comments by those happy and content with the product.
Believe at times this thread has wandered over to the far side of the analytical and safety concerns, but information and chuckles provided, more then made up for that with me. On our past cruises the use of the buddy heater and or at times it in combination with a two burner Coleman stove didn't come near the safety concerns of all the other safety precautions needed to make such cruises. Not saying we didn't make sure necessary ventilation was in place, but we did use them last summer when the Wallas went down for a continuous period of over four weeks and they made the continuation of the remote Southeast Alaska cruise possible.
Much thanks Doug for clearing up some of the misconceptions about the Wallas. I too have had concerns about the results of a leak developing on our Wallas exhaust being it is the type with the simple single exhaust tube and was good to learn about the high heat burn rate lowering the CO risk though I already felt the exhaust smell if a leak developed would give ample warning.
Jay
Believe at times this thread has wandered over to the far side of the analytical and safety concerns, but information and chuckles provided, more then made up for that with me. On our past cruises the use of the buddy heater and or at times it in combination with a two burner Coleman stove didn't come near the safety concerns of all the other safety precautions needed to make such cruises. Not saying we didn't make sure necessary ventilation was in place, but we did use them last summer when the Wallas went down for a continuous period of over four weeks and they made the continuation of the remote Southeast Alaska cruise possible.
Much thanks Doug for clearing up some of the misconceptions about the Wallas. I too have had concerns about the results of a leak developing on our Wallas exhaust being it is the type with the simple single exhaust tube and was good to learn about the high heat burn rate lowering the CO risk though I already felt the exhaust smell if a leak developed would give ample warning.
Jay
A clarification or two:
I made the comment in my last posting that the Wallas stoves and the 40D take their combustion air from the cabin. This is true for the 40D if it is mounted in the cabin. Like the stoves, the combustion air inlet is on the bottom of the unit itself, so combustion is taken wherever it is mounted. Running any of these cabin mounted systems will improve the air quality in the cabin by drawing fresh air into the living quarters.
The 40D and all the new diesel furnaces that are coming in 2011 can be mounted in the cabin, in a locker, in the lazarette or in a diesel engine room.
Thanks
Doug
I made the comment in my last posting that the Wallas stoves and the 40D take their combustion air from the cabin. This is true for the 40D if it is mounted in the cabin. Like the stoves, the combustion air inlet is on the bottom of the unit itself, so combustion is taken wherever it is mounted. Running any of these cabin mounted systems will improve the air quality in the cabin by drawing fresh air into the living quarters.
The 40D and all the new diesel furnaces that are coming in 2011 can be mounted in the cabin, in a locker, in the lazarette or in a diesel engine room.
Thanks
Doug
We have the single burner wallas ceramic heater stove We had the exhaust come off and it really smells of fuel in the cabin when this happens I had to pull the fridge out to get to it I fixed it with a new S/S clamp and now it works like it supposed to .
I do get a little fuel smell when running I was wondering if this is normal when running the stove Otherwise it gets up to speed in about 3-4 min and we can make coffer ,tea etc its faster then my alcohol stove was . Living in florida I really dont get to use the stove that much since we have elec burner when at marina and can use our outside grill . I guess if we start doing more cruising in colder weather it would work .
BTW its 35-40 night and 55 day temps in Naple s fl. this week ,so we have used the wallas this week .
I do get a little fuel smell when running I was wondering if this is normal when running the stove Otherwise it gets up to speed in about 3-4 min and we can make coffer ,tea etc its faster then my alcohol stove was . Living in florida I really dont get to use the stove that much since we have elec burner when at marina and can use our outside grill . I guess if we start doing more cruising in colder weather it would work .
BTW its 35-40 night and 55 day temps in Naple s fl. this week ,so we have used the wallas this week .
I do get a little fuel smell when running I was wondering if this is normal when running the stove
With my older stove ('93 kerosene), on startup the fan whirrs and the fuel pump clicks for maybe thirty seconds and then, when it finally achieves ignition, there is sometimes a noticeable "whumpf" that emanates from the combustion chamber.
Shortly thereafter, a slight odor may be apparent for a minute or so. I believe that when the stove first lights the chamber is "rich" with fuel and, upon ignition, vapors are forced out past the intake fan (it over-pressurizes).
I've noticed that this occurs more frequently as the wick (fuel vaporizer) ages. After replacement the ignition sound is once again the familiar, gradually louder "roar" that I listen for. There is no longer any "whumpf".
The only other time there are odors is if a strong breeze is blowing directly abeam into the exhaust outlet creating a momentary backflow.
this wallass thing has certianly gotten some mileage over time and I know ve have been all around the fuel thing at least 400 times! but, I will mention this again for some who may be interested.
on the smell thing, burn kleen heat! that's pretty simple. Yes it is more expensive but the smell is non existant and in over 5 years with the boat no problems have surfaced as some have with this brand.
martin
on the smell thing, burn kleen heat! that's pretty simple. Yes it is more expensive but the smell is non existant and in over 5 years with the boat no problems have surfaced as some have with this brand.
martin
We used Kleen Heat for seven years primarily due to the smell factor of using the old high sulfur diesel and it was well worth the extra price due to the smell of the diesel being so bad. Last summer thinking the ultra low sulfur diesel now having to be used in all truck models after 2006 should have a much reduced diesel odor decided to try it. The stove ran just as good or better than on Kleen Heat and was odor free. None of the problems I've had with the Wallas and its been allot have been related to fuel type, so with the much reduced cost and ready availability of the low sulfur diesel most anywhere we go I see no reason to continue using the high priced Klean Heat.
I'm not generally shy about diving into repair jobs on the boat, but with the Wallas unless I'm on a cruise where it becomes a necessity believe it better to send in to Scan Marine for periodic maintenance. Beyond the wick changing they do a thorough job of checking out the complete stove including the two fan motors. The fan motors can still be functional and on the way out. I guarantee you it makes for a bad day on a cruise if they do.
I have had more than my share of Wallas problems, but have no complaints with there help on phone or service and repair.
Jay
I'm not generally shy about diving into repair jobs on the boat, but with the Wallas unless I'm on a cruise where it becomes a necessity believe it better to send in to Scan Marine for periodic maintenance. Beyond the wick changing they do a thorough job of checking out the complete stove including the two fan motors. The fan motors can still be functional and on the way out. I guarantee you it makes for a bad day on a cruise if they do.
I have had more than my share of Wallas problems, but have no complaints with there help on phone or service and repair.
Jay