Warning! C-Dory electronics warning health hazard!!

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WannabeCBrat

New member
If I have taken anything out of my DIY recently upgraded electronics installation, is that you MUST NOT install the electronic device's amplifications antenna/radar arrays next to or within a three-foot horizontal radius of yourself or passenger's head/body AND/OR another amplification device antennas. Does that sound correct Dr. Bob?

And, by law, in the state of Washington, you must have your VHS radio turned on to channel 16 when boating or can be fined if turned off.

And how many C-Dory owners have their radio antennas mounted right outside the helm window? Is that antenna not within a foot or two of your head while boating? Do you get headaches when boating like I use to?

FYI. I learned previous c-dory owner died from brain cancer. I put 2+2 together, and I relocated my antenna during recent upgrade electronics install to include a tall radar arch for new vhs/ais radio antennas and radar mounting far, far away from my head...

Brian




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“ And, by law, in the state of Washington, you must have your VHS radio turned on to channel 16 when boating or can be fined if turned off.”


Can you point me to the Washington law that states you can be fined? I’m not saying it’s not a bad idea to monitor 16 but never heard of it being a law. Having a VHF onboard a recreational vessel isn’t even required in the state.
 
Don't know if it is a WA law or not, but it is a federal requirement to maintain a watch on Channel 16 or 9, if fitted, even for a voluntarily equipped recreational vessel:

47 CFR § 80.310 Watch required by voluntary vessels.

"Voluntary vessels not equipped with DSC must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on 156.800 MHz (Channel 16) whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Noncommercial vessels, such as recreational boats, may alternatively maintain a watch on 156.450 MHz (Channel 9) in lieu of VHF Channel 16 for call and reply purposes. Voluntary vessels equipped with VHF–DSC equipment must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on either 156.525 MHz (Channel 70) or VHF Channel 16 aurally whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Voluntary vessels equipped with MF–HF DSC equipment must have the radio turned on and set to an appropriate DSC distress calling channel or one of the radiotelephone distress channels whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Voluntary vessels equipped with a GMDSS-approved Inmarsat system must have the unit turned on and set to receive calls whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate."

As for the non-ionizing radiation part, safe exposure criteria is based on time of exposure averaged over six minutes and limits vary by frequency. The human body is most responsive to VHF frequencies so the tightest limits apply there. The effect is mostly a tissue heating one. As a result, short exposures well in excess of the prescribed limits are acceptable if there is low or no exposure before or after the high exposure, which is the typical case for a two way radio system. Having the antenna in close proximity to the operator is not ideal, but on the flip side, the duty cycle is very low. I have done these type of investigations for all kinds of systems from cell phone sites to high powered broadcast station, but I don't have time to do a sample calculation for a nearby marine VHF antenna at the moment because I am actually heading out in a bit to do a CG and FCC required radio inspection on a compulsory equipped vessel. However, with a VHF antenna right outside the cabin, it is likely instant exposure levels are being exceeded, so whether it is a significant issue or not depends on duty cycle, or how much time is spent transmitting vs. receiving in any six minute period. That is typically pretty low. In spite of that, it is always good to practice "prudent avoidance" and minimize exposures whenever possible.
 
I will defer to gstraub on the monitor requirements. However US Coast Guard stopped mandatory monitoring 2182 in August 2013, as per Federal Register, published July 15, 2013. There are some federal requirements which seem to still apply for commercial ships.

We are considering VHF for our small vessels. It is Federal law that you monitor channel 16 (or Channel 09, or other authorized hailing frequency as per region). I always do monitor channel 16. I also monitor (separate radio, either the traffic scheme in a harbor or area, or channel 13, bridge to bridge, the frequency used by tugs engaged in tow, on most Eastern Rivers and ICW's.

I boated out of Sequim, Wa. during a 4 year span, and had never heard of a state requirement.

I carried HF and MF Marine SSB radios on my long distance sailing vessels. I never monitored the various distress frequencies on HF/MF. There is far more RF from SSB running up to 600 watts on my amateur radio amps in the MF and HF frequencies.

As for possible cancer--that is not really completely resolved. To make a definitive conclusion would take many thousands of persons, with an extensive log of their use of the frequency involved. I believe we are at more risk from our cell phones than the Marine VHF. The amount of transmission time on our small boats is minimal. The power is miminal and I don't worry about it. Radar, even our "digital" type of transmissions offers some very minimal risk.

I install antennas on top of the roof or on the Radar arch, so that the antennas are more than 3 feet from the operator. Plus the amount of RF radiated downward from the base of the antenna is minimal.

Do VHF radio frequency waves cause headaches? It may in some cases, and if it hurts, don't do it. I would install a radio, and program the MMSI number into that radio, so the DSC will work. Continue to monitor channel 16, but if in a busy harbor, then consider a second radio--even a portable hand held to monitor traffic scheme and / or bridge to bridge frequencies.

Maybe all of the dysfunction in America is caused by the proliferation of cell phones and RF radiation. Or better yet, not the RF but the content, and personal damage done by others..
 
These are simply things that I don't worry about very much while boating. As for CH 16? I monitor it when I can, but I certainly don't leave it on for hours end while sitting on the hook. Nor is there going to be a radio watch at night. As far as cancer from boating electronics? Cancer can be such a terrible thing, and it hurts so much to lose someone to it. But anecdotal evidence doesn't necessarily lead to correlation and causation in data sets. And like Bob said, the data connecting the dots is not conclusive and the science behind doing so is exhaustive and complex.
 
pcg":kis47sxz said:
thataway":kis47sxz said:
Plus the amount of RF radiated downward from the base of the antenna is minimal.
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And if folks were really worried about that they might gain some piece of mind by embedding something like this into the ceiling above the helm.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C2D1R8CS/re ... F0aWM&th=1
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Would that also interfere with the GPS signal for the chart plotter? I guess there is the option of adding a remote GPS antenna, or a 3ft mast for the VHF antenna.
 
C-Wolfe":28kpony0 said:
Would that also interfere with the GPS signal for the chart plotter? I guess there is the option of adding a remote GPS antenna, or a 3ft mast for the VHF antenna.
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Yes, to get good reception you would need a GPS antenna outside the cabin. Any GPS satellite that would have its line of sight blocked by the RF barrier would be blocked. Satellites that were low on the horizon would not be blocked. As for a VHF handheld in the cabin, I think it would depend on where the radio was. If you held it up near the ceiling under the barrier then probably a lot of incoming VHF signal would not reach a handheld. But lower it and move towards a window and you might be fine. Same for cell phones. In general, the reception capability of a roof mounted antenna by an RF barrier on the ceiling would not be affected. If you wanted to nerd out and get really technical, I suppose if the RF barrier was grounded then that might alter the antenna's 3D gain pattern in some small inconsequential way. Another benefit to an external antenna is, if you are really concerned about any perceived health risks of VHF, you want to be minimizing the use of a handheld anyway.
 
It is true that CG no longer monitors 2182 kHz. And in a classic one hand versus the other, the FCC still requires some vessels to have it. So, a compulsory equipped vessel that travels more than 20 miles from land, read that as an inspected passenger vessel or other vessel required to carry radio equipment by the Communications Act, must have a radio capable of operating on 2182 kHz. CG will not pass the vessel during an inspection if not so equipped because they are required to enforce the FCC rule. Have had this specific discussion with CG inspectors and we all agree that it is outdated, but FCC has not changed it.
 
Thanks to Gerhard for clarifying the CG/FCC role with 2182. Even with the great satellite communications, (including Star Link) I would still carry a Marine SSB radio, as well as an Amateur HF rig (SSB).

I don't know what the watch keepers monitor these days, but in certain circumstances I found it very useful to contact the CG Sector station on MF/HF to clarify what I thought (Hoped)were US Military/interdiction vessels, rather than drug runners, coming up on us running dark beyond coastal waters.

Another good reason to be a ham operator is to understand propagation at any one time for contact with distant stations.
 
So glad I have better things to worry about.... as for 16. You should have it on but no one in a non commercal boat has ever been fined for not having it on....EVER.. Most people I know never turn it on and when they do its 66 or 68 for fishing reports sometimes 72.

If I had not had it on way back in the day I would never have found or even known about those people in the water that me and my buddies saved. They would have died in another 20 mins. So yes you should have it on but most people dont , Like 95%, because they have music on when fishing or cruising.....

as for the cancer.. we have been told that about power wires, cell phones, ear buds, microwaves, cell towers etc etc etc... might as well blame big foot and his alien over lords for riding nessy in a no wake zone...
 
Thanks for all the good info here. So, to recap, I don't need to worry about monitoring any of the emergency channels (nor worrying about my two brain cells exploding;) however, I should have the capacity to monitor those channels if I want my Coast Guard boating sticker.
I purchased the new Garmin VHF 215 with AIS and NMEA 2000 built in. I'm told that the Garmin 215 will work with the Shakespeare 5250-AIS Classic Skinny Mini AIS 3'Antenna? I'm mounting it onto a 2' extension to bring it up above the radar dome, above the Garmin GPS 24xd satellite antenna NMEA 2000 receiver and just above the Wilson Electronic 4G wide band Omni-Directional Marine Antenna.
My thought is to not have any horizontal plains crossing and/or interfering with each radio/radar/satellite device beneath the antenna but on top of the arch. I hope I am on the right track, or plain here (pun intended.)

First trip I'm making in my new radar/radio setup will be to the Friday Harbor gathering so I can be schooled. :-0

Tom, there's something to be said when all you have to worry about is where you mount your radio on your boat...

Brian
 
Brian your plan is good. The Shakespeare antenna will work. However there is a better VHF marine antenna: Morad. If you had an AIS transmitter I would recommend a different antenna, but for the AIS reception, that one is good, but more expensive. Also you have to use their mount and cable. The cable has a mini to PL259 connector, which will easily thread thru the radar arch. I don't like the Shakespeare antenna crimp PL 259 plug, With time it will corrode where the fitting punctures the insulation and external connector braid.

Here is a link to a tutorial I did a few years back on how to properly do the solder on a plain proper 259 connector. There are some speciality PL259 military spec fittings which are better. I have never used them.

Get your MMSI number and put it in the DSC radio. (I usually buy Standard Horizon or Icom VHF marine radios.). The DSC does not work unless you have your MMSI number which is obtainable from some Sea Tows, and from Boat US (worthwhile joining). You are getting the radio for your safety, not to qualify for the volunteer CG Aux inspection sticker.

Let us know how the radio and antenna works out.
 
I have to take back what I posted last night. Although the Shakespeare 5250-AIS wire whip will work, it is tuned for the AIS frequency of 162 MHz, you want a radio antenna tuned closer to the VHF Channel 16, your calling and distress frequency: 156.8 MHz. The Morad, and other marine VHF antennas are tuned to 156 MHz.

In the Puget Sound/ Straits of Juan de Fuca, I like to also monitor channels 14/13 for the traffic scheme, and bridge to bridge communications of ships. The C Dory size boats do not check into the traffic scheme, but you like to know what is out there, (the AIS should help), and be safe, especially in limited visibility. In limited visibility with my Cal 46, I would check into the scheme, especially if crossing at right angles.

You do want to read articles on how to use or view on U Tube videos on use of the VHF radio and radar. You want to be VHF radio and Radar running both of these every time you are out in the boat, so usage becomes a reflex. I have been running radar since the late 1970s (when it became "affordable" for recreational vessels). I have thousands of hours of use, yet still will run a new to me radar to co-relate what I see visually and what is on the radar screen. Many who start to use radar like to overlay it on the chart plotter image. I understand that, but I believe you will come to understand your radar better if you run a split screen: radar on one side, chart next to it. Learn to tune your radar, rather than rely on "auto tune". I run at least 2. VHF radios--often two fixed and one or two hand held. (I am used to listening to a number of radios thru my amateur radio experience, as well as boating.)

Be safe, not only your boat, but others.
 
thataway" Although the Shakespeare 5250-AIS wire whip will work said:
Dr Bob,
The Garmin 215 AIS/VHF radio has only one VHS antenna jack on the back of it. Do I have to use an antenna splitter like the Shakespeare 5257-S Antenna Splitter F/Vhf Radio, Ais Receiver & Am/Fm Stereo to use this Garmin on both AIS frequency 162 MHz and distress frequency of 156.8 MHz or use the splitter with two separate antennas, one for AIS and one VHF?
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[quote

First trip I'm making in my new radar/radio setup will be to the Friday Harbor gathering so I can be schooled. :-0

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I notice that you plan on coming to the annual FH gathering in May, don't forget to sign-up. Looking forward to meeting you. Colleen and I use this information as coordinators and work with the Port for group reservations. Thanks. Gary and Colleen

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=31980
 
'The Garmin 215 AIS/VHF radio is a receive only AIS. This does not transmit or give out any of your boats information. It uses NMEA 2000 protocol to send the information to your chart plotter. You do not need a spitter or special antenna. It functions just like a normal radio, but has a specific receiver section which downloads all of the information from other boats, then passes it along to your chart plotter. I have used a second smaller and older chart plotter for the AIS information. If you are boating on San Francisco Bay, you much see over 100 AIS targets. Some of the Yacht clubs are putting transmitters on the racing sailboats, as well as the Race Committee boats.

The one VHF antenna tuned to near channel 16 suffices for reception of AIS signals. This does not mean that the antenna you referenced will not work. It will, but may be not tuned or as "efficient" on the VHF Marine radio channel channel 16. There probably will be little difference noted on reception, and slightly more loss of signal on transmission.

Here is the US Coast Guard list of channels, and frequencies. I recommend that you download it and have it printed out.

There are 3 types of AIS transmitters: Class A AIS are mandated for vessels over 300 tons, fishing vessels over 15m, passenger carrying vessels and for SOLAS Convention. Many long distance cruising yachts also Type A, because it gets thru to the larger ships in difficult or crowded areas.

AIS Class B are for recreational craft installation and have a transmission power of 2W (range of about 10 miles).

AIS Class B+ (also called Class B SOTDMA) use the same SOTDMA technology as a AIS Class A transponders and therefore have the same priority when it comes to reserving a slot, thus ensuring that they will always be able to transmit, even in high traffic areas. They have a transmission power of 5W. This is the class I would choose, if putting a AIS on a boat I owned. It is only a couple of hundred dollars more than the AIS B. It will be shown, when an AIS B may be filtered out on larger ships.
 
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