flapbreaker
New member
Lori Ann":195gfktf said:
look at this thread for more info:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=5154
WELCOME TOM LATHAM
- Thread starter Byrdman
- Start date
look at this thread for more info:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=5154
DaveS":1l0abvb8 said:
I had to look up farrier. In these modern times even a soon to be 46 year old like me was unfamiliar with the word. In case there are others out there as ignorant as I am: "A farrier is a specialist in equine hoof care, including the trimming and balancing of a horse's hoof so as to fit shoes to the horse's foot."
Well, I am quite put out here
this thread goes back almost a whole month. we were all encouraged to put out the welcome mat and graciously welcome the new contact(Tom Latham) at the C-Dory factory. there were 13 posting accepting him to the fold here ,the last on Feb 3, 07. I am sure he is a busy man and has a lot to do but I feel that there should have been some acknowledgement from him or a spokesperson by now.I am saddened to hear that Jeff is gone from CD but am glad that he didn't stray too far.Jeff, we will definitely miss you.
this thread goes back almost a whole month. we were all encouraged to put out the welcome mat and graciously welcome the new contact(Tom Latham) at the C-Dory factory. there were 13 posting accepting him to the fold here ,the last on Feb 3, 07. I am sure he is a busy man and has a lot to do but I feel that there should have been some acknowledgement from him or a spokesperson by now.I am saddened to hear that Jeff is gone from CD but am glad that he didn't stray too far.Jeff, we will definitely miss you.
tom&shan
New member
Tom Latham":lh2kmims said:
He did post a comment on the thread thats linked in to this one - dated Feb 2.
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=5154
Pat Anderson
New member
Tom is going to have a very difficult time picking up where Jeff left off...for starters, Jeff pretty much knew us all...now C-Dory has no factory direct sales, no factory service, no nothing...Tom can figure out how to make C-Dorys for less but he does not have a chance to know us...it is going to be tough for me to be as enthusiastic a supporter, sorry but that is just the way it is...
SENSEI":t58b1tvg said:
Those of you who have some expertise on organizational theory ought to chime in. My hunch is that C-Dory has reached an organizational size where it is no longer compatiable to maintain the kind of relationships we have so enjoyed as Brats. This is not a value driven decision but rather a function of size.
What it means for C-Brats is we have to hang on to our community and lower our anxiety over where the company is going.
What we really need is a local dealer who can replace the relationship that we have known through C-Dory. We need to cloan Les!
What it means for C-Brats is we have to hang on to our community and lower our anxiety over where the company is going.
What we really need is a local dealer who can replace the relationship that we have known through C-Dory. We need to cloan Les!
C-Sick":2ulw2rak said:
C-Sick is right! Years after purchasing our boat from Les we still can walk through the door at EQ Marine and be called by our first names. He treats us like we're part of the family. We try not to burn up to much of his valuable time but always feel good after a visit with him.
Ruth and Joe
R-Matey
C-Sick makes sense! The 'factory' will do what it wants, or has to. Riggio's market is long gone. Wal-Mart and Whole Foods survive (for a while). In the meantime Wild Blue is cruising Margaretaville and the Chief is about to ride his BMW 2400 miles. The 'Loan Ranger' has four daughters. Tom and Shan are planning their commissioning and Oldgrowth Dave is turning his boat right side up. Dusty is going fishing. I've got little Lizzie and I've got my C-Brat family. Spring is almost here, now. Life is good. 
eace:
eace:Well.... I started this link and the reason was at very 1st glance, I could see, feel, and tell changes were on the horizon...as they are now beginning to show. I did it as to welcome Tom. I did it as to let him know that he has a very active owner base of C-Dory boats. I did it cause I could for sure tell he and Jeff, just like he (Tom) and I are very different people.
Tom drives a Porsche, I drive a turbo diesel as to allow for better towing.
Tom wears french looking glasses, generally wears a sports coat, and keeps his hair slicked backand really shines his shoes. I, forget where I put my glasses, generally wear Gortex, and, generally have on a ball cap, had to buy socks when I moved north to TN, prefer bare foot even over my worn out old Sperry's.
Tom has accomplished some things in a "different" boating industry ....much different than our C-Dory boat's heritage. I like that heritage, and to date, have purchased 3 of them,(customers buying boats...what keeps the boating industry going)... and just love their simplicity, and non-blow-n-go look/cookie-cutter finish. I like owning a boat that looks and "feels" like no other boat in the Seattle, Miami, Atlanta boat shows. I like boats that do go up in value each year simply because production cost is a bit higher, and production times are a bit slower...and that hold the values on MY INVESTMENTS.... if... you think of a boat as an investment
I like hanging out with folks that are different from me...as most folks are...for the good of our Great Country.
I invited Tom and Scot down south after the boat show season for a gathering attendance in the Nashville TN area. They were then, as they are now still welcome, and I hope they come. It would be great to share with them some of my home waters.
Marty is target on....let's just go love and use our boats, support, gather and live some good times on and with what we have... and...let the chips fall where they may for the future generations of C-Dory Boats.
My great friend Roger is target on.... I too feel like an update from Tom or Scot is in order... Now, in my past life, I too have been very busy and spread out...managing the moves and effects of thousands of soldiers of Military Police and Explosive Ordnance soldiers....and regardless of how busy, no matter the fog of the matters you are in...you have to take time to communicate with people... particularly the ones who are around you and support your way of life.
Now... Jeff will for sure do a great job with C-Rangers. He would do great with any boat industry project he participates in. He loves boats, he talks with people...and... I would look forward to a post in the near future from him/C-Ranger side of the house...
but... it may be a week or two after the boat show blast.. these guys have to get some sleep at some point. And, let the dust settle a bit, stack all the chips/orders, make the years projections... and them maybe give us a note or two. Those dog-n-pony shows combined with all the travels are hard on folks.
Now... lets go enjoy our boats.
Good Day.
Tom drives a Porsche, I drive a turbo diesel as to allow for better towing.
Tom wears french looking glasses, generally wears a sports coat, and keeps his hair slicked backand really shines his shoes. I, forget where I put my glasses, generally wear Gortex, and, generally have on a ball cap, had to buy socks when I moved north to TN, prefer bare foot even over my worn out old Sperry's.
Tom has accomplished some things in a "different" boating industry ....much different than our C-Dory boat's heritage. I like that heritage, and to date, have purchased 3 of them,(customers buying boats...what keeps the boating industry going)... and just love their simplicity, and non-blow-n-go look/cookie-cutter finish. I like owning a boat that looks and "feels" like no other boat in the Seattle, Miami, Atlanta boat shows. I like boats that do go up in value each year simply because production cost is a bit higher, and production times are a bit slower...and that hold the values on MY INVESTMENTS.... if... you think of a boat as an investment
I like hanging out with folks that are different from me...as most folks are...for the good of our Great Country.
I invited Tom and Scot down south after the boat show season for a gathering attendance in the Nashville TN area. They were then, as they are now still welcome, and I hope they come. It would be great to share with them some of my home waters.
Marty is target on....let's just go love and use our boats, support, gather and live some good times on and with what we have... and...let the chips fall where they may for the future generations of C-Dory Boats.
My great friend Roger is target on.... I too feel like an update from Tom or Scot is in order... Now, in my past life, I too have been very busy and spread out...managing the moves and effects of thousands of soldiers of Military Police and Explosive Ordnance soldiers....and regardless of how busy, no matter the fog of the matters you are in...you have to take time to communicate with people... particularly the ones who are around you and support your way of life.
Now... Jeff will for sure do a great job with C-Rangers. He would do great with any boat industry project he participates in. He loves boats, he talks with people...and... I would look forward to a post in the near future from him/C-Ranger side of the house...
but... it may be a week or two after the boat show blast.. these guys have to get some sleep at some point. And, let the dust settle a bit, stack all the chips/orders, make the years projections... and them maybe give us a note or two. Those dog-n-pony shows combined with all the travels are hard on folks.
Now... lets go enjoy our boats.
Good Day.
Tom Latham
New member
To all of you, thanks for the feedback. Know that I appreciate your honesty and passion for our brand and boating, passions that I whole-heartedly share. I also really appreciated the welcome you guys gave to me. Do not think for a moment that my lack of acknowledgement was due to the fact that I was unappreciative of the welcome. Quite the contrary.
C-Sick is correct in stating that the size of our organization now prohibits frequent communication with this forum. The addition of new models and new dealers, both domestically and internationally, continues to fuel our growth. Be assured however that Scot and I frequently review the postings on this forum for feedback and will, from time to time, provide updates on what's going on here at C-Dory, just as we do to our dealers.
In closing on a lighter note Byrdman, though I drive a Porsche and wear a sport coat from time to time, I never shave on the weekends unless work is involved, I chew tobacco when I hunt or fish and have probably eaten more fried squirrel than just about anyone from Tennessee.
Best to you all and safe boating!
Tom Latham
Chief Operating Officer
C-Dory Marine Group
C-Sick is correct in stating that the size of our organization now prohibits frequent communication with this forum. The addition of new models and new dealers, both domestically and internationally, continues to fuel our growth. Be assured however that Scot and I frequently review the postings on this forum for feedback and will, from time to time, provide updates on what's going on here at C-Dory, just as we do to our dealers.
In closing on a lighter note Byrdman, though I drive a Porsche and wear a sport coat from time to time, I never shave on the weekends unless work is involved, I chew tobacco when I hunt or fish and have probably eaten more fried squirrel than just about anyone from Tennessee.
Best to you all and safe boating!
Tom Latham
Chief Operating Officer
C-Dory Marine Group
tom&shan
New member
Tom Latham":2dnoa1m1 said:
Maybe in a few years when their smaller again they will be able to provide more frequent communication. (if their still around). :cry
tom&shan":cmg209gz said:
Whoa! I retired early because we took VERY good care of our clients... and no matter how big or busy we got, we never forgot that it was those very clients who made that possible. I certainly wouldn't expect the COO to participate here frequently... I am just surprised that it would be written in public. I have said several times that the factory could benefit from the input of owners, even to the point of having an owners' advisory group. It would be a darn shame if we all felt we were too busy to give the factory our input. :|
Yep, a darn shame.
Very sincerely,
Jim Bathurst
Jim-I don't wish to get personal, but you are , unfortunately, the exception, not the rule. As you know, survival of the fittest is not necessarily the same as survival of the best. Just read the threads here, and the "older than dirt" thread. Everybody praises Les because he too is an exception. How many C-Dory dealers are there? How many have ever joined a discussion here two, maybe three. R-Matey takes the time to exclaim "he remembers my name!!" When we grew up in the old days everybody on Main St. remembered all their customer's names. You didn't 'do business', you danced. Even as a kid I could walk into Riggios Market and Mrs. Riggio would tell her son "Georgie, get Marty 5cents soup greens and put in a carrot." Then she would ask about my mom and dad, how school was going, what I thought of the Yankee game, etc. Try that at Walmart or Whole Foods. No more Riggios. Hell, No more Main St. Today, on Seattle's east side, a clerk will look at your credit card and say "Thank you Mr. Smith", the further east you go you wont even get that, I think. You cant change the COO's. They are too smart for us, and, as the saying goes, for their own good. eace:
eace:Hmm,
Chief operating officer. Fancy title. We will see where the C Dory line goes. I hope that the emphesis on quality will prevail, rather than on profit. I cannot buy that any company does not have the "time" to listen to feed back from its customers--and I think that is a major mistake. The larger the company gets, the more need there is for a customer advocate.
There are several reasons that C Dory has remained a "Cult" boat--and I mean this in a good way. There are very few boats which have achieved that status. This means very high quality, factory involvment in owner feedback, communication and minimal changes of a classic hull thru the years, with minor changes and improvments. That is what has driven the C Dory line. The other boat I was considerng was the Glacier Bay 2690--their factory is still involved with their owner list. But it is a much smaller list--and a smaller production boat.
C Dory as a hull design has some real advantages, but it is not a boat for "everyone"--not a Bayliner, nor should it be treated as a Bayliner (I have owned a Bayliner, and know that they are a boat built at a price and are not a boat to endure).
Chief operating officer. Fancy title. We will see where the C Dory line goes. I hope that the emphesis on quality will prevail, rather than on profit. I cannot buy that any company does not have the "time" to listen to feed back from its customers--and I think that is a major mistake. The larger the company gets, the more need there is for a customer advocate.
There are several reasons that C Dory has remained a "Cult" boat--and I mean this in a good way. There are very few boats which have achieved that status. This means very high quality, factory involvment in owner feedback, communication and minimal changes of a classic hull thru the years, with minor changes and improvments. That is what has driven the C Dory line. The other boat I was considerng was the Glacier Bay 2690--their factory is still involved with their owner list. But it is a much smaller list--and a smaller production boat.
C Dory as a hull design has some real advantages, but it is not a boat for "everyone"--not a Bayliner, nor should it be treated as a Bayliner (I have owned a Bayliner, and know that they are a boat built at a price and are not a boat to endure).
Corporate America has never much impressed me. I am just a ole country boy who grew up like most of you “dancing” instead of “Doing Business”. The Harvard School of Business is turning out a new breed, educated to sell their products for a profit and always looking to the “Bottom Line” as the only prize.
What C-Dory is missing here is a CCRO “Chief Customer Relations Officer”.
As to the thought that maybe they are going to have to rely on their dealers to fill this void, they have Les on the left coast and I can tell you they have a great one in Marc (Wefings) on the gulf coast.
Now I would love to hear from the COO about the “International” division.
What C-Dory is missing here is a CCRO “Chief Customer Relations Officer”.
As to the thought that maybe they are going to have to rely on their dealers to fill this void, they have Les on the left coast and I can tell you they have a great one in Marc (Wefings) on the gulf coast.
Now I would love to hear from the COO about the “International” division.
Squarehead
New member
Hum...looked to me that this fellow said he might not be communicating via the forum too much. Which is different than not reading or taking into consideration the views and ideas contained herein.
Well, here's the E-mail I just sent Tom latham. I had to send it as a PM since he has no E-mail in his profile and no E-mail on the C-Dory website. Its just my own thoughts about relationships between the factory and us.
Mr. Latham
This is in response to your post noting that (the size of our organization now prohibits frequent communication with this forum) and is written with the best wishes for C-Dory Marine Group and you personally. It has to do with the unfortunately dismissive tone of your e-mail to the C-Brats. I hope you will take the time to read this. I'd like to recount my own path to C-Dory ownership.
I first saw and heard of C-Dory at the Seattle Boat Show three years ago. My wife and I liked what we saw but were not ready to buy just based on a show appearance. We went to the factory website and found little more than what we had seen at the boat show. We found out about C-Brats and joined some months after the show. I asked question after question about the boats on the C-Brats site. My wife and I gradually came to trust the C-Brats as an interested, biased, but brutally honest source for information about C-Dorys. The people on the site were genuine, friendly and welcoming. We were invited to C-Brat GetTogethers before we had a C-Dory. Our first ride on a C-Dory came from a C-Brat. We never contacted the factory, we never contacted a dealer, our information came almost exclusively from C-Brats. We went back to the SBS two years ago almost certain that we would end up with a C-Dory. At the SBS we talked to C-Brats about C-Dory, We talked to Nancy Rink, who was helping C-Dory market the boats at the show. We still didn't take the plunge. Shortly after that show we decided to buy a new 22' Cruiser and, since we live nearby, went to Les Lampman at EQ to buy the boat.
In that almost two year process, the only contact from the factory was at the SBS. There was virtually no coverage of C-Dory in the standard boating magazines. Almost all of that marketing, sales, performance, reliability, customization, etc. information came exclusively from the C-Brats. The existence of the C-Brats accounted for 30-40% of our decision to buy the boat because we understood that we were not just buying a boat we were joining a group that we had come to enjoy, learn from, and trust. I can state with certainty that were it not for the C-Brats we would not have bought a C-Dory for the simple reason that without the C-Brats we would not have learned enough about the C-Dory to invest over $50,000 in one. We looked at other boats, we wrote tentative contracts on other boats in order to do sea trials. The deal breaker for those other boats was not quality, interiors, etc. It was the fact that buying one of those boats would have us one the water alone and buying a C-Dory would not only give us a good boat but would put us in the C-Brats.
C-Dory is a niche boat and despite what you may feel about the value of appearances at large boat shows, is marketed very substantially by word of mouth. That word of mouth comes largely from the C-Brats. If you counted every single hull every produced under the C-Dory name you would find, I think, that over 50% of those are represented on the C-Brats site. The membership of the C-Brats is comprised of owners, former owners, and many people in the same place my wife and I were during our path to C-Dory ownership...people using the C-Brats to find out about the boats. There are well over 2,000 members of the C-Brats site from all over the U.S. and Canada. Only 100-200 post at all regularly but many more people read the site frequently. C-Dory has reaped incalculable benefits from the existence and support of the C-Brats and it makes no business sense to alienate the group that really serves as your unpaid marketing and product testing/QC arm. In the two years I've been on the site I can't recall more than a few posts from the FaC-Dory.guy so its not as though C-Dory was on the site even once a month. What was obvious in those few posts, was that C-Dory took the C-Brats seriously and was interested in making sure the C-Brats had accurate information about the goings on at C-Dory and that the factory responded to C-Brats concerns. Certainly C-Brats can be opinionated, unfair, intrusive into the factory's business, and a general pain; but the fact remains that C-Dory would not be where it is now without the C-Brats and it would seem to be simple prudent business thinking to keep that relationship strong.
I write this entirely alone. No C-Brat saw this or knew I was writing it. Undoubtedly some will disagree with what I have said and I certainly do not claim any voice for C-Brats as a whole. This is simply my opinion written to offer input to you, a new person in a new job in a small company going through the throes of change and hoped for expansion. Please do not be insulted that I refer to C-Dory Marine Group as a small company but my own professional marketing and public relations experience is with organizations orders of magnitude larger than C-Dory.
I offer this sincerely and wish you and C-Dory Marine Group well.
Barry Daniel
Colobear
C-Cakes
Mr. Latham
This is in response to your post noting that (the size of our organization now prohibits frequent communication with this forum) and is written with the best wishes for C-Dory Marine Group and you personally. It has to do with the unfortunately dismissive tone of your e-mail to the C-Brats. I hope you will take the time to read this. I'd like to recount my own path to C-Dory ownership.
I first saw and heard of C-Dory at the Seattle Boat Show three years ago. My wife and I liked what we saw but were not ready to buy just based on a show appearance. We went to the factory website and found little more than what we had seen at the boat show. We found out about C-Brats and joined some months after the show. I asked question after question about the boats on the C-Brats site. My wife and I gradually came to trust the C-Brats as an interested, biased, but brutally honest source for information about C-Dorys. The people on the site were genuine, friendly and welcoming. We were invited to C-Brat GetTogethers before we had a C-Dory. Our first ride on a C-Dory came from a C-Brat. We never contacted the factory, we never contacted a dealer, our information came almost exclusively from C-Brats. We went back to the SBS two years ago almost certain that we would end up with a C-Dory. At the SBS we talked to C-Brats about C-Dory, We talked to Nancy Rink, who was helping C-Dory market the boats at the show. We still didn't take the plunge. Shortly after that show we decided to buy a new 22' Cruiser and, since we live nearby, went to Les Lampman at EQ to buy the boat.
In that almost two year process, the only contact from the factory was at the SBS. There was virtually no coverage of C-Dory in the standard boating magazines. Almost all of that marketing, sales, performance, reliability, customization, etc. information came exclusively from the C-Brats. The existence of the C-Brats accounted for 30-40% of our decision to buy the boat because we understood that we were not just buying a boat we were joining a group that we had come to enjoy, learn from, and trust. I can state with certainty that were it not for the C-Brats we would not have bought a C-Dory for the simple reason that without the C-Brats we would not have learned enough about the C-Dory to invest over $50,000 in one. We looked at other boats, we wrote tentative contracts on other boats in order to do sea trials. The deal breaker for those other boats was not quality, interiors, etc. It was the fact that buying one of those boats would have us one the water alone and buying a C-Dory would not only give us a good boat but would put us in the C-Brats.
C-Dory is a niche boat and despite what you may feel about the value of appearances at large boat shows, is marketed very substantially by word of mouth. That word of mouth comes largely from the C-Brats. If you counted every single hull every produced under the C-Dory name you would find, I think, that over 50% of those are represented on the C-Brats site. The membership of the C-Brats is comprised of owners, former owners, and many people in the same place my wife and I were during our path to C-Dory ownership...people using the C-Brats to find out about the boats. There are well over 2,000 members of the C-Brats site from all over the U.S. and Canada. Only 100-200 post at all regularly but many more people read the site frequently. C-Dory has reaped incalculable benefits from the existence and support of the C-Brats and it makes no business sense to alienate the group that really serves as your unpaid marketing and product testing/QC arm. In the two years I've been on the site I can't recall more than a few posts from the FaC-Dory.guy so its not as though C-Dory was on the site even once a month. What was obvious in those few posts, was that C-Dory took the C-Brats seriously and was interested in making sure the C-Brats had accurate information about the goings on at C-Dory and that the factory responded to C-Brats concerns. Certainly C-Brats can be opinionated, unfair, intrusive into the factory's business, and a general pain; but the fact remains that C-Dory would not be where it is now without the C-Brats and it would seem to be simple prudent business thinking to keep that relationship strong.
I write this entirely alone. No C-Brat saw this or knew I was writing it. Undoubtedly some will disagree with what I have said and I certainly do not claim any voice for C-Brats as a whole. This is simply my opinion written to offer input to you, a new person in a new job in a small company going through the throes of change and hoped for expansion. Please do not be insulted that I refer to C-Dory Marine Group as a small company but my own professional marketing and public relations experience is with organizations orders of magnitude larger than C-Dory.
I offer this sincerely and wish you and C-Dory Marine Group well.
Barry Daniel
Colobear
C-Cakes
Extremely well stated Barry!
( I would only add that there have been a number of changes made to the design and function of the C-Dory, that were created by C-Brats. One of which is the "Barber Chair"......I feel certain that we would not have the "forward facing seat" on the 22' C-Dory, had it not been for Mike Barber ("Tyboo") who created the first forward facing seat, which to those of us who have been on the site for a number of years, more affectionately refer to as the "Barber Chair". I'm certain that this development has been a financially sound improvement for C-Dory).
( I would only add that there have been a number of changes made to the design and function of the C-Dory, that were created by C-Brats. One of which is the "Barber Chair"......I feel certain that we would not have the "forward facing seat" on the 22' C-Dory, had it not been for Mike Barber ("Tyboo") who created the first forward facing seat, which to those of us who have been on the site for a number of years, more affectionately refer to as the "Barber Chair". I'm certain that this development has been a financially sound improvement for C-Dory).
Alyssa Jean
New member
Your email was well thought out and presented. I would hope that Tom Latham takes it as constructive criticism and it enlightens him a little more on what the C-Brats site has meant to the factory.
I really don't think he means or meant to cause dissention amoungst the loyal owners of C-Dorys.
I really don't think he means or meant to cause dissention amoungst the loyal owners of C-Dorys.
William and Beth Tucker
New member
Barry, thank you for your post..you said it all...also some c-brats may not know and the factory forgot that the outside steering station that is now offered as an option was first built for our 25 foot c-dory..I had numerous conversations with Jeff Messenger over the phone and flew to seattle to work out a lot of extras on our boat..such as twin 90 Hondas with swim steps on each side, bow pulpit, up -grade vacuflush head, and glass in the head door so that there are no blind spots from driving at the outside steering station.. also tilt wheels at both stations, fold down step at helm station..special built helm seat that sets straighter up. This may be our personal opinon but we felt that the factory seat leaned back too far and we would need a pillow at our back. Also I was the one who advised Jeff that the outside station needed a different steering wheel-- smaller and stainless steel instead of the one he had installed. (I also located it and told him were to buy it). Jeff Messenger will be missed by us and I think will be missed by the factory some day.. I agree with you in thinking that the factory has lost sight in the need for outside people. It would not surprise me to see the factory dinner dropped in years to come...thank you again for putting my feelings into words.
William Tucker.
William Tucker.