Guns on Boats

The latest buzz word by those with zero real world experience and who have no skin in the game is "de-escalation". Now in some instances that may work. But I, nor any LE officer/deputy I know, would never resort to this "tactic" with an armed suspect. To do so would be suicide. MY LIFE MATTERS.

The current state of this country is so ass-backwards:

-when a mother with warrants for her arrest, who is armed with a SHOTGUN pointed at LE and who is using her 5 yr old as a shield, is lawfully killed by LE defending THEIR LIVES, it somehow becomes a political and racial hot potato and LE is somehow "blamed" for her death.

-Or when a very large male, who just robbed a convenience store and assaulted the store owner is stopped by LE and attacks the LE officer in an attempt to grab the officer's side arm, thus forcing the LE officer to DEFEND HIS LIFE...we get protests, riots, looting, lies of "hands up, don't shoot" and BLM.

Ass-backwards.
 
Kushtaka and Local Boy, thanks for your posts. They make a whole lot of sense to me. Of course I'm a realist that has no desire or need to carry. Then again, I have no problem with those that do, as long as they are responsible. (Just as I have no problem with those responsible that feel they need to carry, please don't tell me why I should carry.) I also have no problem with LEO's shooting first and asking questions later. At least not when lives are threatened or in danger. It's unfortunate that some drunks and mentally ill folks get caught up in the mess, but that's just the way it is. They can still be dangerous regardless of their mind set! Ok, that's my political 2 cents worth. Back on the topic as it relates to boats, and all the talk about shooting fish. Anyone ever come close to putting a hole in their boat? That would be my concern. But then I can be clumsy at times...:oops: Nor do I catch any fish that I can't handle alive. lol. Colby
 
Kushtaka's post is very thought provokative. I agree with most of it. Not with waiting until you have been struck....as per the 4th paragraph. For example on a cross country drive In a Corvair van camper towing an Alpine Tiger, at about 2 am in the middle Tenn., I was being boxed in by two "good ol boys". I rolled down the window and pointed my 12 guage at the car along side. Would have I fired in the maneuver had continued? You bet. They left at the site of the Mossberg.

In the V berth sleeping at early morning hour-- boat was boarded and I awoke to see a person in the companionway. I racked a shell and yelled "get the hell off my boat." If they had not jumped off the boat, I would have shot.

I whole heartily agree with training, have made up in your mind when you would fire. On several on several occasions we had undesirables board or attempt to board. I was armed with a machete; Marie was hidden in the dark companionway with a .357, with instructsions to fire if I was attacked. Key words were pre-arranged. I was a lot younger, stronger & faster 30 years ago. I was able to defuse the situation. Certainly if someone were to attack me, at age 80, I am far less able to defend myself. I would be more likely to use a fire arm for defense....we had friends who were attacked, in one case the wife dispatched the native with a 1911, after he had killed her husband, and seriously wounded 2 other cruisers.

Carrying is a great responsibility. You have to have already decided that you are willing to kill. If not, don't carry.

Be safe!
 
Though I agree with a lot you post, Bob, not paragraph 1 or 2 above.
Too quick on the trigger for me realizing I wasn't there.
I'm more in agreement with paragraph 3.

Most likely, we all will have slightly different boiling points when
it comes to "that moment"; very personal. Further, if I were a
perpetrator intending to harm someone, knowing the above, I'd
find something else to do.

Aye.
 
Good stuff here. let me make a comment about one thing."because we, as a society, are very very very poorly educated on this aspect of responsible gun ownership, instead informed by movies, tv, and motivated by fear to do the wrong thing over and over again. " I think this is only partly true. As I have stated I have trained people to use guns a long time ago. I still help my friends train if they ask. I find that legal gun owners as a group, and CCL holders even more so , have a firm understanding of how when and why you should use a gun. None shooting public less so but that is why I always invite non shooters to my range to give it a try.

I firmly believe that you will react the way you are trained and if you are not trained you will not react and get your self and others killed or at least hurt. that goes for guns boats cars and kids. Get training and refresh your training several times a year ( go to the god dam range) .

Susan and I shoot trap every Wednesday in the summer. If any one would like to try it I have guns and ammo. Also long guns up to .300 win mag and down to several .22's. as well as pistols. just email me and I will make time to set something up.

I have seen with my own eyes, and talked to several people , who have used the pumping action of a shot gun to scare off UNARMED thugs. Its not some thing I teach or suggest but it has worked. The guy that I hope I never have to shot will never hear the shot when I do shoot him/her. That's just me. I carry and I carry with a round chambered because a un-chambered pistol is a rock. Not every gun should be carried in this manner but most of the modern double action only pistols should be. As a side note I did not choose the glock .380 just for this reason. I feel that the trigger pull is far to light on the glocks for me to deep carry ( in pant pockets or jackets) If you carry solely on a belt holster then that may be a different issue. open to suggestions on that subject of the glocks. I have not owned one.

As for the political craziness of the last year, just wow. Not one of the LE that has been threaten with death by the uninformed masses has been found guilty. Why? because if politicians and activist would wait for the facts before yelling and screaming B.S. in to the night sky they would learn that the cops were not guilty. Its called the justice system and it mostly works if you give it time. Bad cops should be tried and sentenced IF they committed a crime. I have been waken in the night to pier out my window to see a cop with gun drawn walking up my steps with hate in his eyes. And leaning out the window with a .22 in hand behind him and asking him where he was going is not fun nor something I want to experience again. And after a short talk we both decided that is was NOT my fault that his girl friend did not disclose her relationship with LE. That shit will leave you shaking a little. But I find that MOST of LE is great.

BoB, next time we meet I want to hear more of you stories.
 
On point, as usual Tom.

I'll just offer for your consideration that it is only recently that I've realized that those in the classes I teach are not entirely representative of gun owners nationwide on the whole. They are representative of the group they are: gun owners that seek and get training and instruction.

There's a whole nuther pile of gun toting people out there who get a gun, buy some ammo and practice at the range until they can hit something, and then wait for trouble.

I think I latch onto this because the most common firearm I use in class is a 12G and that's the one you always hear: "you just need to make that sound and all the bad guys run away," or "you don't even need ammo, just that sound."

People who arrive with that mindset tend to be in their first class, and tend to also believe that chambering a round into action or pointing a gun at someone while everything gets sorted out is a good idea. Often I even hear about how it's better to have an unloaded gun and just point it at someone, then you can't get in trouble.

This perception is out there, and these folks tend to create problems using firearms this way.
 
And after reading Bob's post, I think I should clarify.

It is not necessary to pull the trigger if the gun comes out. If you can avoid it, do.

Just don't even consider touching it if you are only doing so to make a noise or scare someone off.

You nailed it, you would have pulled the trigger if you had to. If you were going to rely on the intimidation factor of your firearm as your sole deterrent you are asking for trouble.
 
Foggy":1git277y said:
Though I agree with a lot you post, Bob, not paragraph 1 or 2 above.
Too quick on the trigger for me realizing I wasn't there.
I'm more in agreement with paragraph 3.

Aye.
Click to expand...

Ahh, but the trigger was not pulled!

Not at all a surprising response, and I thought about what responses might be in today's world. The first paragraph was in 1967, No cell phones, no ham radio 2 meter repeaters, on a two lane rural road, where I had a deadline to make a wedding, I had blown the Corvair engine going up a grade with way too much rolling weight--and it took 4 days to get a rebuilt engine into the van in Salome AZ. --a lot more to the story..But cross country drives were not unusual for me at that stage of my life.

I saw it as a potential death threat, if I was boxed in and stopped. The decision to pull a trigger has to be made in a basically a heartbeat. In that particular case I was a prime target--something I try to avoid. Situational awareness told me that a very dangerous situation was developing very rapidly, and the only way to stop it was to show a display of force, which was clearly understood. There was no racking--in that case there was already a shell in the chamber.

The second paragraph, (1962) is only one of several times one of our boats has been boarded--every other situation was handled without display of any weapon or force--although the machete and fish club were always handy on the large boats where these situations occurred. There have been several times were one of us "stood anchor watch"--with a weapon kept out of sight, which involved drug dealers/pirates. Thus the comment I made earlier about not leaving anchorages under less than ideal conditions. Conversely, I have had my boats profiled as a drug running boat, and been interdicted/ boarded by Coast Guard in the middle of the night, both at anchor and underway.

In todays world my cell phone which has the first speed dial of the sheriff's dispatchers line (given to neighborhood watches). #2 is 911.

I had some unique opportunities early in life. (Mid 1950's) At age 16 I became the summer "maintenance man" at a 200 girl Girl Scout Camp located in a remote area with zero LEO, where we had a few poachers. I was the only male in the camp; the director was the only other person armed. One responsibility was to be sure that none of the poachers came into the camp. This lead to instances where I used verbal skills to dissuade the poachers from entering the camp, and posing a security threat. I do believe that carrying and being proficient with the revolver, gave me more confidence. Open carry was common was common at night in this area.

Tom's points are right on.
 
"Quick on the trigger" - a manner of speech, not literal.
My apology if it got you riled.

Aye.

Grandma used to say, "Putting your foot in your mouth
too often can result in loss of credibility."
(just remembering, intended for myself)
 
Often I even hear about how it's better to have an unloaded gun and just point it at someone, then you can't get in trouble.
Click to expand...
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:

Not one of the LE that has been threaten with death by the uninformed masses has been found guilty. Why? because if politicians and activist would wait for the facts before yelling and screaming B.S. in to the night sky they would learn that the cops were not guilty. Its called the justice system and it mostly works if you give it time. Bad cops should be tried and sentenced IF they committed a crime
Click to expand...
.

Why wait. There are votes to be had and money to be made by the race-baiters. Black Lies Matter. :evil:

The bottom line; if one wants a weapon one needs to learn how to use the weapon, properly AND safely. One also needs to be prepared for the outcomes, both good and bad.
 
localboy":dzksd2gm said:
Why wait. There are votes to be had and money to be made by the race-baiters. Black Lies Matter. :evil:
Click to expand...

Very professional of you, Mark. Very professional indeed.

Your comment demonstrates precisely why there is so much mistrust of police officers. Precisely. It is not so much the actions of a few; it is the pervasive attitude of superiority shared by so many in law enforcement that makes a large part of society leery and a smaller part of it afraid.

The sentiment you express may well be absolutely correct, but your manner of expressing it is the very reason it exists. One can easily look past the ramblings of Foggy and SC Tom, but your choice of career commands that you think a little more about your words lest they be construed as a work ethic.
 
Ramblings?? really and you talk about other peoples "pervasive attitude of superiority shared by so many" Is that a glass house you are building??? just asking or rambling.
 
My apologies, Tom. I did not mean to use the word in a way that was disparaging to either of you.

However, the glass house comment was pretty much a ramble.

Furthermore, the definition of rambling is speech or writing that is "lengthy and confused or inconsequential". Your thoughts are certainly not inconsequential, but surely even you will admit that when you type lengthy comments in a hurry the resulting prose can be somewhat "confused". :mrgreen: I doubt that Foggy's grandma would argue with that.
 
TyBoo":3mib2m9b said:
My apologies, Tom. I did not mean to use the word in a way that was disparaging to either of you.

However, the glass house comment was pretty much a ramble.

Furthermore, the definition of rambling is speech or writing that is "lengthy and confused or inconsequential". Your thoughts are certainly not inconsequential, but surely even you will admit that when you type lengthy comments in a hurry the resulting prose can be somewhat "confused". :mrgreen: I doubt that Foggy's grandma would argue with that.
Click to expand...

Aye.

Grandma used to say: "The wiseman speaks when he has something to say;
the fool when he has to say something."
 
TyBoo":347ungzo said:
localboy":347ungzo said:
Why wait. There are votes to be had and money to be made by the race-baiters. Black Lies Matter. :evil:
Click to expand...

Very professional of you, Mark. Very professional indeed.

Your comment demonstrates precisely why there is so much mistrust of police officers. Precisely. It is not so much the actions of a few; it is the pervasive attitude of superiority shared by so many in law enforcement that makes a large part of society leery and a smaller part of it afraid.

The sentiment you express may well be absolutely correct, but your manner of expressing it is the very reason it exists. One can easily look past the ramblings of Foggy and SC Tom, but your choice of career commands that you think a little more about your words lest they be construed as a work ethic.
Click to expand...

Obama: quick to call cops guilty, even before anything is INVESTIGATED
Rodham: quick to call cops guilty AND says in a speech that "racism in LE is rampant"
Mosley: quick to bring charges against 6 officers, even without evidence that supports it. And so far she is 0/6

All "attorneys" who presumably graduated law school and passed Bar exams and all have several things in common, amongst them, they don't consider The Constitution to be something they must adhere to.

Just a few examples. I calls it as I sees it. My chosen profession does not negate my right to my opinion and my Constitutional Right to free speech.
 
localboy":2j8dgoy4 said:
TyBoo":2j8dgoy4 said:
localboy":2j8dgoy4 said:
Why wait. There are votes to be had and money to be made by the race-baiters. Black Lies Matter. :evil:
Click to expand...

Very professional of you, Mark. Very professional indeed.

Your comment demonstrates precisely why there is so much mistrust of police officers. Precisely. It is not so much the actions of a few; it is the pervasive attitude of superiority shared by so many in law enforcement that makes a large part of society leery and a smaller part of it afraid.

The sentiment you express may well be absolutely correct, but your manner of expressing it is the very reason it exists. One can easily look past the ramblings of Foggy and SC Tom, but your choice of career commands that you think a little more about your words lest they be construed as a work ethic.
Click to expand...

Obama: quick to call cops guilty, even before anything is INVESTIGATED
Rodham: quick to call cops guilty AND says in a speech that "racism in LE is rampant"
Mosley: quick to bring charges against 6 officers, even without evidence that supports it. And so far she is 0/6

All "attorneys" who presumably graduated law school and passed Bar exams and all have several things in common, amongst them, they don't consider The Constitution to be something they must adhere to.

Just a few examples. I calls it as I sees it. My chosen profession does not negate my right to my opinion and my Constitutional Right to free speech.
Click to expand...

Localboy, I'm with you on this one.

♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
♦ George Orwell
 
My apologies: Rodham's quote was not "rampant" it was "systemic racism".

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...inton-systemic-racism-democratic-debate-video

Like I said; there are votes to be had and (race baiting) money to be made.

I'll leave this thread with this. Some statistics, otherwise known as FACTS:

PolitiFact cited data from the Centers for Disease Control on fatal injuries by “legal intervention” from 1999 to 2011.

“Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect, Medved is correct,” said PolitiFact.
Click to expand...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/
 
Localboy, I'm with you on this one.

♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
♦ George Orwell
Click to expand...

:thup

Give me liberty, or give me death.
 
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