Guns on Boats
- Thread starter Foggy
- Start date
No offense intended (read: tip toeing thru testerosterone saturated
opinions and chest pounding statements).
Terminology:
About needing "twin guns", a smaller "kicker" or a "back up gun (BUG)",
when you find yourself out of ammo with your first main gun (the choice
of course is yours after thorough consideration of its intended purpose),
over here and extending to the East Coast, we reach for our second gun
called the "New York Reload". In a boat, on the road, in your house, on
the street, where ever.
Aye.
Grandma used to say, "Redundancy is often useful."
opinions and chest pounding statements).
Terminology:
About needing "twin guns", a smaller "kicker" or a "back up gun (BUG)",
when you find yourself out of ammo with your first main gun (the choice
of course is yours after thorough consideration of its intended purpose),
over here and extending to the East Coast, we reach for our second gun
called the "New York Reload". In a boat, on the road, in your house, on
the street, where ever.
Aye.
Grandma used to say, "Redundancy is often useful."
Not just the otoliths. After a long day of getting skunked for salmon on the "Breadline," near Juneau, my guests were starting to whine. So I headed to a spot where I could almost always count on getting a halibut as a consolation prize.Kushtaka":331a9sxk said:
Sure enough, the biggest whiner soon hooked a nice little 25-pound chicken and horsed it up to surface. Then he grabbed my trusty old Remington Nylon 66 .22 rifle from inside the cabin, took careful aim at the fish's head from a range of about two feet ... and missed!
His second shot hit the fishing line, and we all leaned over the rail and watched in horror as the halibut slowly sank back down into the depths. Never forget that tragic moment. So yeah, I think I'll try Kushtaka's method next time.
Pandion":1c9776q5 said:
At least you had a chance. I remember one day long ago I was on someone else's boat and we hooked a big one. Having only a bear gun on board (.375 H&H, a very very huge rifle) rifle was placed directly against the halibut's head and BOOM! When the water settled we could see a bit of white sinking to the bottom. Still had the head on, but the cheeks were ruined. Probably the otoliths too. After that I started looking for a better way.
Pandion":14cswscy said:
Sorry - but who shoots a 25# hali? Gaff that guy, and bonk. Over 40 or 50#, maybe shoot it. But even then, I just use a combination of a tail rope and a gaff. If you do it right, you can push the tail rope back through the gills and out the mouth and then tie it off with a bend in the fish. Then it's secure and you can haul it in without incident.
starcrafttom
Active member
colbysmith
Active member
Not sure why, but this last page of comments, page 6, seems to go beyond the width of my screen. Anyone else notice that? Colby
Edit.... Weird, my post went to page 7 which is normal width, but page 6 is still too wide???
Edit.... Weird, my post went to page 7 which is normal width, but page 6 is still too wide???
colbysmith
Active member
That did the trick! 
TyBoo":whmahtd6 said:
Well it was a pretty big fish!!!
Thanks, sorry I did it wrong.
I love to tail rope. If you use a soft enough line, you can use a tail rope to release the fish, but don't lift it out of the water like that unless you are going to kill it. You can dislocate vertebrae easily. I used to have a stout dowel with a small eye bolt in the endgrain. I ran a line through the eye bolt and then could stick the line up through the gills and out the mouth easily without tearing myself up.
Really, you don't need to shoot any of them. It's a risky thing to do, and not all that effective in my experience. Last night my fishing buddy gaffed a nice one right through both cheeks and dropped it onto the deck as angry as they get. With the cheeks ruined, the fish-shaped downrigger weight ended things immediately.
Deer season just opened, so going back to the origin of this post, I'm toting a hunting rifle with me every time I walk down the float to go out fishing or otherwise. We see deer in the water, and if one is going to volunteer for me it would be rude to refuse the opportunity!
You have to wait until their feet hit the ground, and your engine is off, and forward momentum stopped, but the reception at home is always best when I go out fishing and bring home surf and turf!!
I'm a person who has not carried a gun until I was threatened by some intoxicated men. They were simply crazy drunk and I know from experience you cant talk to a drunk stranger and expect anything but trouble. It was 11 at night in the forest on the Ocklawaha R in central Fl. I heard a boat engine approaching until it stopped by mine to come a shore to take care of a self afflicted gig wound. Well after working on the wound one of the group shouted who's up there? I kept my mouth shut until he and one of his friends got within 10 feet of my tent, he was screaming all the way to my tent, here I am naked in my sleeping bag picturing myself in a shallow sand grave. I mumbled something after he screamed do you speak english? His friend was thank gosh calm and said "Eddie he said something so lets go" that scared the hell out of me and I've been packing ever since. I'm not an NRA guy or anything like that. I dont think other people should carry guns either. I'll be packing from now on thats for sure.
Anyone who thinks talking about this is inappropiate should simply move to another page, dont tell me I should not share my story about getting the Hell scared out of me and what I did, hey did you here me pull the action back, it sounds pretty scary in the dark.
Anyone who thinks talking about this is inappropiate should simply move to another page, dont tell me I should not share my story about getting the Hell scared out of me and what I did, hey did you here me pull the action back, it sounds pretty scary in the dark.
jimicliff":2x21crgw said:
Thanks for sharing.
If carrying prevents being scared in the dark, so be it. Sometimes a "click" or the
sight of a weapon will deter an aggressor, sometimes not. To actually shoot
someone who is being aggressive toward you to stop the aggression, the standard
is not merely being scared but, among other things, being afraid of losing your
life.
I've often wondered just how bad of a whoopin' I'd be willing to take before using
deadly force to end it. Unless you're a pro, once in the thick of it, you just don't
know.
Aye.
I've had a little bit of education on this subject, and the idea of using the sound of a firearm as a deterrent is generally borne out by evidence as a bad idea. As is pointing a gun at someone with no intention to fire. These behaviors put a firearm carrier at the highest risk for being shot themselves.
You do not want to use the sound of your action to get your point across. If dealing with a person, your firearm should never come into the equation unless you are going to use it. Data show that the use of the firearm to end a life threatening situation is effective. The use of a firearm to threaten, or otherwise adjust a situation that is life threatening (or heading that way) just makes things worse. If you think about it, by using a firearm as a deterrent you instantly make the situation life threatening if it wasn't already, at least to the other guy.
Use of a firearm as a deterrent assumes one thing: That you are the only one armed. Often brazen people are armed and that is the source of their courage (but in this case, it seems more likely liquid courage), but you never know. If you bring out your gun, or cock it inside a tent to make a point, you may well get yourself shot pretty quick.
However there are very real and tangible ways that carrying a firearm can be of great assistance to you, no matter what the threat (two or four legged). That is the fact that you know it is there. That should change the way you approach a situation. Sitting in your tent with a drunk belligerent approaching, simply making noise and asking who was there is not something that you necessarily need a gun to sort out (and you didn't). Having the firearm in your tent may have likely put you in a position of confidence instead of fear. Then using your voice at the first time you were called out you could have said, "I'm sleeping in my tent, please leave me alone" in a firm and confident voice. That would be better than cocking a gun. Once you cock your gun you have threatened to kill someone who asked if you were there. That is not a suitable response for one, and for another, it is far more likely to result in rapid escalation.
So please oh please. If this is something new to you, please get some training, and please take the above advice to heart. Let you concealed firarm bring you a quiet confidence and an inner peace that allows you to peacefully diffuse a tense situation with the confidence of a solid Plan B in case things go wrong. Keep your firearm in its holster (whether concealed or open), especially if things get tense. Don't bring your firearm into the equation unless things have escalated past the "Life threatening threshold (you have been struck or touched in a threatening way, or directly verbally threatened with death, or have witnessed someone else being so treated and in need of assistance). If you unholster your firearm you have already decided that you are going to use it, and when the conditions meet those suitable to engage, you do so using deadly force (don't try to stop a problem by shooting someone in the leg).
The big difference between this and predator defense is that you get your gun out and ready as soon as you see the predator, then assess the threat.
I realize this is ugly talk, but the data are in. It's bad when there are politicians who advocate the sound of a 12 gauge shotgun being a great deterrent, and saying you don't even need ammo. It's bad when all you see on TV are people pointing their guns at each other and talking things over, or taking control of a situation. The real world doesn't go that way. Just look at the news. When the guns come out, people get shot. guns come out too early because we, as a society, are very very very poorly educated on this aspect of responsible gun ownership, instead informed by movies, tv, and motivated by fear to do the wrong thing over and over again.
Sorry to go off on a lecture here. At least maybe this is a different type of discourse on firearm use, and I'll admit it's ugly, but it's the truth, borne out by data and objective review of thousands of altercations by smart people.
And in my own students, I've had great feedback from people who have simply found their own confidence in the face of a huge bear knowing they had the firepower and training to stop a bad situation. This training started keeping their own fear response in check. That keeps the bears (or person depending) from reacting to your fear response (fear provokes attacks) aggressively. Moreover they started finding that when they encountered bears in the wilderness after receiving their training the bears were more docile, less assertive, and more likely to provide a trained person with a really great experience seeing a bear up close in the wild, with the bear relaxed and calm because they were relaxed and calm.
It's kind of a mission for me to instill in firearm users that the real tool is the change in their perspective, and their ability to deal with and diffuse a situation without the fear they would have if unarmed as the real benefit to carrying, and NOT the lethal force that can be delivered, or the boisterous threat of such force as a first effort in diffusing a situation.
You do not want to use the sound of your action to get your point across. If dealing with a person, your firearm should never come into the equation unless you are going to use it. Data show that the use of the firearm to end a life threatening situation is effective. The use of a firearm to threaten, or otherwise adjust a situation that is life threatening (or heading that way) just makes things worse. If you think about it, by using a firearm as a deterrent you instantly make the situation life threatening if it wasn't already, at least to the other guy.
Use of a firearm as a deterrent assumes one thing: That you are the only one armed. Often brazen people are armed and that is the source of their courage (but in this case, it seems more likely liquid courage), but you never know. If you bring out your gun, or cock it inside a tent to make a point, you may well get yourself shot pretty quick.
However there are very real and tangible ways that carrying a firearm can be of great assistance to you, no matter what the threat (two or four legged). That is the fact that you know it is there. That should change the way you approach a situation. Sitting in your tent with a drunk belligerent approaching, simply making noise and asking who was there is not something that you necessarily need a gun to sort out (and you didn't). Having the firearm in your tent may have likely put you in a position of confidence instead of fear. Then using your voice at the first time you were called out you could have said, "I'm sleeping in my tent, please leave me alone" in a firm and confident voice. That would be better than cocking a gun. Once you cock your gun you have threatened to kill someone who asked if you were there. That is not a suitable response for one, and for another, it is far more likely to result in rapid escalation.
So please oh please. If this is something new to you, please get some training, and please take the above advice to heart. Let you concealed firarm bring you a quiet confidence and an inner peace that allows you to peacefully diffuse a tense situation with the confidence of a solid Plan B in case things go wrong. Keep your firearm in its holster (whether concealed or open), especially if things get tense. Don't bring your firearm into the equation unless things have escalated past the "Life threatening threshold (you have been struck or touched in a threatening way, or directly verbally threatened with death, or have witnessed someone else being so treated and in need of assistance). If you unholster your firearm you have already decided that you are going to use it, and when the conditions meet those suitable to engage, you do so using deadly force (don't try to stop a problem by shooting someone in the leg).
The big difference between this and predator defense is that you get your gun out and ready as soon as you see the predator, then assess the threat.
I realize this is ugly talk, but the data are in. It's bad when there are politicians who advocate the sound of a 12 gauge shotgun being a great deterrent, and saying you don't even need ammo. It's bad when all you see on TV are people pointing their guns at each other and talking things over, or taking control of a situation. The real world doesn't go that way. Just look at the news. When the guns come out, people get shot. guns come out too early because we, as a society, are very very very poorly educated on this aspect of responsible gun ownership, instead informed by movies, tv, and motivated by fear to do the wrong thing over and over again.
Sorry to go off on a lecture here. At least maybe this is a different type of discourse on firearm use, and I'll admit it's ugly, but it's the truth, borne out by data and objective review of thousands of altercations by smart people.
And in my own students, I've had great feedback from people who have simply found their own confidence in the face of a huge bear knowing they had the firepower and training to stop a bad situation. This training started keeping their own fear response in check. That keeps the bears (or person depending) from reacting to your fear response (fear provokes attacks) aggressively. Moreover they started finding that when they encountered bears in the wilderness after receiving their training the bears were more docile, less assertive, and more likely to provide a trained person with a really great experience seeing a bear up close in the wild, with the bear relaxed and calm because they were relaxed and calm.
It's kind of a mission for me to instill in firearm users that the real tool is the change in their perspective, and their ability to deal with and diffuse a situation without the fear they would have if unarmed as the real benefit to carrying, and NOT the lethal force that can be delivered, or the boisterous threat of such force as a first effort in diffusing a situation.
potter water
New member
You have posted a nice treatise there. Thanks. You've covered it all. On television, the detective hero always talks down the mentally disturbed person while that person is pointing a gun at him or her. My own friends in law enforcement says if the other person is pointing a gun at you or even close to pointing at you, you shoot first and discuss later. When a bad guy stranger has a weapon in his or her hand and it is pointed at you, you will likely die before he or she will want to visit. That person is already past the chat-down the situation phase. Or so according to my law enforcement friends and my weapons training instructor. Of course, how many of us are trained and skilled negotiators with impaired armed folks pointing a gun at us.